Should the official subtitles have translated Kami-sama

[MasenkoHA]

As we know, Simmons elected to leave Kami-sama as is rather than translating it as God for whatever reason. Mandelin did explain that it meant God when the name first came up in episode 7 of the original anime but otherwise followed suit.

On the one hand, I can understand not translating it because the average English speaking person sees God, singular, and associates it with the Abrahamic God who created the earth, is all powerful and all knowing and is immortal. God is a green alien who is mortal and only applied for the job and isn't all powerful and outranked by multiple other Gods in the cosmos would be very confusing concept for many of them plus It does let the series keep its Japanese identity

On the other hand Kami-sama means God and it's not a proper noun like Gohan where translating his name to Meal or Rice is just silly. It's akin to leaving Kame Sennin as is instead of translating to Turtle Hermit. Something feels lost when it's not made explicit the dragon balls were a literal gift from God and Daimao is the evil side of God. Even if he's not the traditional Western idea of a singular God he is still supposed to be "the big guy upstairs people are praying to"


What do you think?

[JulieYBM]

I think God/God-sama works best. This isn't a case like Daimao where one would be needing to expanded two syllables into four, for example, and God is just a plain ol' title.

[AliTheZombie13]

Back in the age where Internet wasn't a thing? Was the better choice to leave it as Kami or else there'd be a revolt from angry religious parents. To exemplify a case from the Latin American and Brazilian dub, they had translated a line in the "Zenkai Power" ending that was originally like this:

Japanese: "Even God has it rough... Sorry."
Latin American: "Kami-sama can be so cruel... Sorry."
Brazilian Dub: "Kami-sama might be cruel... He's EVIL!"

Replace "Kami-sama" with "God" and I'm pretty sure there would be an outrage that would get the show banned off TV.

[TechExpert2021]

I think the translation of "神様" as "Kami-sama" in the official subs should be left as is since the official subs retain the Japanese honorifics. However, there is a clear reason why "God" as a translation of "神様" is preferred instead of "Kami-Sama". I could assume that Funimation doesn't want their audience to confuse Dragon Ball's God with Abrahamic God. So as long there isn't any confusion involved, "God" as a translation of "神様" would be preferable.

Dragon Ball's God in OG DB and DBZ doesn't have a proper name like other Namekians like Piccolo, Dende, etc. Also, "神様" (Kami-sama) is a generic title applied to him. Like what MasenkoHA said, it's not a proper noun.

Dende in DBGT succeeded OG DB/DBZ "Kami-sama" as Dragon Ball's God, and therefore Dende is also called "Kami-Sama" ("God"), mostly by Mr. Popo.

Back in the age where Internet wasn't a thing? Was the better choice to leave it as Kami or else there'd be a revolt from angry religious parents. To exemplify a case from the Latin American and Brazilian dub, they had translated a line in the "Zenkai Power" ending that was originally like this:

Japanese: "Even God has it rough... Sorry."
Latin American: "Kami-sama can be so cruel... Sorry."
Brazilian Dub: "Kami-sama might be cruel... He's EVIL!"

Replace "Kami-sama" with "God" and I'm pretty sure there would be an outrage that would get the show banned off TV.

I've never seen any cases where OG DB and DBZ are permanently pulled off from broadcast TV because of an outcry from overprotective parents regarding the use of "God" instead of "Kami-Sama". Do you think broadcast networks that air OG DB and DBZ that use "God" instead of "Kami-sama" would face a large number of phone calls from angry parents, forcing them to immediately pull both OG DB and DBZ off the air and never air them again?

[AliTheZombie13]

I've never seen any cases where OG DB and DBZ are permanently pulled off from broadcast TV because of an outcry from overprotective parents regarding the use of "God" instead of "Kami-Sama". Do you think broadcast networks that air OG DB and DBZ that use "God" instead of "Kami-sama" would face a large number of phone calls from angry parents, forcing them to immediately pull both OG DB and DBZ off the air and never air them again?

I'm sure more than one dub, including mine, decided "Translating his name as 'God' will definitely not fly well in this country." I'm not saying it happened, but that they chose to keep it "Kami-Sama" to avoid the risk. Same as "Mr. Satan" was renamed "Hercules" in some countries out of fear of religious outcry.

[nineko]

The Italian manga did this right, but the Italian anime, once again, pulled one of its creative censors, and made him "il supremo" (the supreme one).

They did something even worse with Piccolo's family tree, but that's outside the scope of this topic.

[Adamant]

The entire "leaving Kami-sama untranslated" thing dates back to long before Funimation (I think it's what Curtis Hoffman used). It should absolutely have been translated, and it's highly unlikely anyone translating the series from complete scratch today would've even considered leaving it in Japanese, but at the time it's just what the English-speaking fandom knew him as, and many probably weren't aware of exactly what "Kami" meant either
But it was absolutely just the common name for the character at the time, not any kind of censorship.

[Majin Buu]

Yeah, Simmons definitely should have translated Kami.

But like Adamant said, most English-speaking fans back then knew him as Kami and didn't know that wasn't a proper name. I for one didn't find out that wasn't a proper name until my adult years and my siblings only knew about Japanese DBZ through me so I know they didn't know that either.

To speculate on why he didn't, this is likely the main reason and perhaps Simmons figured sub fans (the presumed market for a subtitled Japanese version) would be in the know on what the name actually is.

[MasenkoHA]

Back in the age where Internet wasn't a thing? Was the better choice to leave it as Kami or else there'd be a revolt from angry religious parents. To exemplify a case from the Latin American and Brazilian dub, they had translated a line in the "Zenkai Power" ending that was originally like this:

Japanese: "Even God has it rough... Sorry."
Latin American: "Kami-sama can be so cruel... Sorry."
Brazilian Dub: "Kami-sama might be cruel... He's EVIL!"

Replace "Kami-sama" with "God" and I'm pretty sure there would be an outrage that would get the show banned off TV.

I'm specifically talking about the subtitles for the DVDS, not the dub where leaving Kami as is was the best course of action.


The internet was 120 percent absolutely a thing in the early 2000s when the subtitled dvds were being released by Funimation. This was the age of internet chat rooms like AOL and Yahoo Messenger, torrent programs like Kazaa, and fan sites galore.

And that is a interesting translation choice for the Latin American and Brazilian dub. I'll blame Toei'e wonky translations.

Yeah, Simmons definitely should have translated Kami.

But like Adamant said, most English-speaking fans back then knew him as Kami and didn't know that wasn't a proper name. I for one didn't find out that wasn't a proper name until my adult years and my siblings only knew about Japanese DBZ through me so I know they didn't know that either.

To speculate on why he didn't, this is likely the main reason and perhaps Simmons figured sub fans (the presumed market for a subtitled Japanese version) would be in the know on what the name actually is.

Funny enough, I do recall some fansites back in the early 2000s calling him God. (I think Pojo was one of them?) I remember being very confused as a kid until I put 2 and 2 together they were talking about Kami.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I don't think so, the series was already over in Japan by the time Funimation started releasing DVDs with subs so it was already established there were beings above Kami like Kaio-Sama, Grand Kai, Supreme Kai, etc.

Even if there wasn't, "God" is a limiting term because of how definitive and ultimate it sounds. By the same token it felt odd the term was used and ultimately superseded in the Super Saiyan forms in favour of the meaningless term "Super Saiyan Blue".

Yes "Kami" is used for "God" but only in the Shinto traditions as far as I'm aware. "God" is more universal and better left as an option.

[Cure Dragon 255]

The entire "leaving Kami-sama untranslated" thing dates back to long before Funimation (I think it's what Curtis Hoffman used). It should absolutely have been translated, and it's highly unlikely anyone translating the series from complete scratch today would've even considered leaving it in Japanese, but at the time it's just what the English-speaking fandom knew him as, and many probably weren't aware of exactly what "Kami" meant either
But it was absolutely just the common name for the character at the time, not any kind of censorship.

Who is this Curtis Hoffman.

[MasenkoHA]

I don't think so, the series was already over in Japan by the time Funimation started releasing DVDs with subs so it was already established there were beings above Kami like Kaio-Sama, Grand Kai, Supreme Kai, etc.

Even if there wasn't, "God" is a limiting term because of how definitive and ultimate it sounds. By the same token it felt odd the term was used and ultimately superseded in the Super Saiyan forms in favour of the meaningless term "Super Saiyan Blue".

Yes "Kami" is used for "God" but only in the Shinto traditions as far as I'm aware. "God" is more universal and better left as an option.

As far I as I know Kami is just the Japanese word for God and not specific to the Shinto religion. A person in Japan practicing Christianity would still call the God of Abraham "Kami-sama"

God in English being used for Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan seemed to be just a case of borrowing an English word to sound cool or exotic to Japanese audiences. Like how it's Super Saiya-jin not Chou Saiya-jin.

[Majin Buu]

Who is this Curtis Hoffman.

I believe he's the guy that did the initial English fan-translations of the manga way back before Dragon Ball was a thing in America and the source of a couple fan terms (I think "Mystic Gohan" comes from him).

[Cure Dragon 255]

Who is this Curtis Hoffman.

I believe he's the guy that did the initial English fan-translations of the manga way back before Dragon Ball was a thing in America and the source of a couple fan terms (I think "Mystic Gohan" comes from him).

... I really wish the English Fandom had a Brenda Nava, who knows how to translate and doesnt give a hoot what the fansubs do, a dub or even official DVD subs will never be watched by hardcore sub people, so it's best to make the show to make it intellegible to normal people while being true to the vision of the creator and not give a fuck about people who go "BUT I WANT MY SUBS TO BE WEABOO ISH."

Sure, Toei mandated that Kami-Sama be Kami-Sama even though she wanted him to be GOD in the Latin American dub but she's the best. there is Zero weaboo bullshit in the Latin American dub.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Sure, Toei mandated that Kami-Sama be Kami-Sama even though she wanted him to be GOD in the Latin American dub but she's the best. there is Zero weaboo bullshit in the Latin American dub.

TOEI doesn't seem to give a damn about dubisms anymore. They were credited for ADR approvals in Funimation's dub of Super (so they are as much accountable for that dub's liberties as Funimation) and enforced dub terms when Super finally got a simulcast. While it's not relates to TOEI or the show I think it's also noteworthy Japanese spellings have been phased out in the merchandising. If anything I think were likely to see less catering to "weebs", I don't see the license holders going out of their way to pander to them anyway.

I don't know how I feel about it though, I think both dub and sub fans should be honoured. As much as I hate sub elitism I don't see swinging the pendulum the other way as the answer.

[Adamant]

...you silly kids really need to be a bit more aware of what the general accessability and quality of fansubs in the late 90s actually was before talking out of your asses about what your "weeb" boogeymen would and wouldn't be interested in.

[Ajay]

Yes, he should have used "God".

There are actual jokes across the franchise that hinge on it. Not really funny when Mr Satan is saying "That's God???" to a little green dude when he's just saying "Kami" that has no real world meaning to English speakers.

[Majin Buu]

...you silly kids really need to be a bit more aware of what the general accessability and quality of fansubs in the late 90s actually was before talking out of your asses about what your "weeb" boogeymen would and wouldn't be interested in.

Yeah, I feel there's some biased sentiments being expressed by people who weren't part of the English speaking fanbase back then.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

...you silly kids really need to be a bit more aware of what the general accessability and quality of fansubs in the late 90s actually was before talking out of your asses about what your "weeb" boogeymen would and wouldn't be interested in.

You mean the tape trading culture for those Anime Labs swear-obsessed fansubs that spread the rumour Dragon Ball Z was such a mature show in Japanese?

Also, I'm 32 and remember a time we had dial-up Internet and had to go to the store for VHS tapes.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Sure, Toei mandated that Kami-Sama be Kami-Sama even though she wanted him to be GOD in the Latin American dub but she's the best. there is Zero weaboo bullshit in the Latin American dub.

TOEI doesn't seem to give a damn about dubisms anymore. They were credited for ADR approvals in Funimation's dub of Super (so they are as much accountable for that dub's liberties as Funimation) and enforced dub terms when Super finally got a simulcast. While it's not relates to TOEI or the show I think it's also noteworthy Japanese spellings have been phased out in the merchandising. If anything I think were likely to see less catering to "weebs", I don't see the license holders going out of their way to pander to them anyway.

I don't know how I feel about it though, I think both dub and sub fans should be honoured. As much as I hate sub elitism I don't see swinging the pendulum the other way as the answer.

I meant earlier on, where apparently the dubs and or subs for the DVD's catered to that one guy who made subs for Dragon Ball one time, also using Dubisms is not the same as actually translating.