If GT didn't exist...

[Bejiita]

Who would be happy if GT was never created, and the story really did just end with DBZ?

I think it would be much better, I'm not gonna babble on about how I don't like GT, because we all know why, but Toriyama obviously wanted the story to end when he did end it, if he wanted a SSJ4 he would have done it before any anime was created, seeing as when money's involved, Toei must have thought GT would rake in the money as die hard DBZ fans would be happy, but it's just made an extra story line than cannot be erased, we are all aware of GT plot lines, who knows, Toriyama just may have created a next part but then though not to because an extra GT story was added and the story he may have wanted would not make any sense.

Anywho, GT messes things up and instead of giving the franchise a bad name, it would have been left with Goku leaving to train Uub the story woud have stayed a happy ending.

I don't think Akira Toriyama was pleased himself with GT.

[Kodoshin]

I'm sure within minutes now someone will make a post mentioning where Toriyama, said he liked the idea of GT and would have taken the story in the same direction himself. Honestly though, even if he did not like it he certainly does not come off as the type of guy to be very outspoken (judging from his past interviews) about it. He seems like a pretty quiet guy.

Either way, as far as I'm concerned the series ends when Goku leaves to train with Oob and GT and it's events hold no weight. That is not a very popular attitude around here since most people who express it tend to get mugged by the "GT is a decent show," team but thats how I feel and I'm not changing my view on the subject.

[VegettoEX]

The ending to GT far surpasses the crap that Toriyama-sensei wrote to end the actual series with... even taking into consideration the re-write in the kanzenban.

I've slept through most of GT (in Japanese, yes)... so I know I don't like it all that much. But the ending, to this day, still makes me a cry like a little damn school-girl, where-as the "Z" ending results in a "Whatever..." response from me.

[Rocketman]

Personally, I say DBZ ends with that filler (?) episode where everybody's at the party, and they're all relaxed and stuff. Kinda brings the whole thing full circle from the beginning, when Goku was taking Gohan to meet his old friends.

[omae no kaasan]

Honestly though, even if he did not like it he certainly does not come off as the type of guy to be very outspoken (judging from his past interviews) about it.

I'd just say this. Although I completely agree Toriyama wouldn't say, "I hate GT. It was miserable. It failed and I don't agree with what was done, I hate Toei and they should rot in hell until the coming of the Apocalypse.", one must consider his role in Japan. He's essentially a level under Osamu Tezuka and on par with the likes of Sakura Momoko and Rumiko Takahashi. He can talk down to whoever the hell he wants to. And there's evidence of this behavior too. Check out his interviews. Admittedly I myself have translated a good chunk of em' so I would warn of the potential of a freedom of translation bias, however, I've tried very hard to preserve his attitude and quite frankly, he's friggin' hysterical in how laidback and painfully honest he is.

Mid-interview he begins to get ADD and talk about computers, or bust on his friends for not being able to use them.

Blaming Cell on his editor.

Not even caring that he's forgotten his own story/characters.

I honestly can't believe that Toriyama would use an ounce of honne in his speach. I mean this is the man who wrote a comic basically celebrating the fact that he was done with the damn series and would never have to do it again in the series guidebooks.

If Toriyama seriously was miffed I'm quite certain he would at least say, "Yeah, that was kind of strange huh?"

And now, (gotta be fair and balanced), although I am a HUGE advocate of GT and getting the word out about Toriyama's support of it, I would be remiss in noting, all of what Toriyama has had to say about GT (in that interview) was before GT began its run.

[SpaceKappa]

I like GT. It was a great new direction for the series, which honestly had run out of things to do at that point. And Mike, I'm glad I'm not the only one who needs a box of Kleenex during episode 64. >_>


Now can we all PLEASE stop bashing GT constantly?

[B-kun]

I agree, it's seriously getting annoying and it's on the same level as FUNi bashing - got old and tired 4 years ago.

[Kodoshin]

At the same time, I think the forming habbit of jumping all over people for saying anything negative about GT, at all is absolutely silly. It's often times tough to discuss some aspects of the show without taking a jab at it just because of the can of (continuity) worms that the series opens up.

[Aurek]

Personally I feel they had a lot of good ideas with GT. Brining the story back to its routes, SSJ4 harnising the power of the Saiyan's legacy (Oozaru) and thus being different to the others. The idea of introducing the race whom the Saiyans destroyed and making consequences for the constant use of the dragonballs. I think all these we're really good ideas.

However it was done so badly and with no attention to detail. Numerous huge plotholes and inconsistiencies. I'm my opinion awful character design and boring fights. Nor did I like their new sytle of shading. Those factors contributed to me feeling it was just a soulless rape of the series for money and not worth my time watching, except to see what the fuss was about. It could have been good but unfortunatly is was not in my opinion. I also agree about the ending though.

It seems to me more and more that the whole dragonball series was something of a happy accident. Almost like I (and most people I think) feel Star Wars was. It was not Toriyama's life work, he didnt spend years thinking up the story and refining it. One day he wanted to do a martial arts manga, so he did. His ideas just happened to capture the hearts and imaginations of millions.

[omae no kaasan]

That is not a very popular attitude around here since most people who express it tend to get mugged by the "GT is a decent show," team but thats how I feel and I'm not changing my view on the subject.

No one is really trying to change that opinion. It's your own so enjoy it. And for the record, the overwhelming majority of the M2 saga is one of the most pathetic attempts at an original story I have ever seen.

And most importantly, although I like to point out what Toriyama thinks (or thought) about the show nowhere did I intend that to mean anyone should like the show based on his opinion.

You are the fan after all.

The goal of bringing out that juicy nugget of information was to quelch the blatant fanboy lie that spread and grew like some virus that Toriyama hated GT and stormed into Toei and Fuji Television tearing people down like so much Vegeta.

[Kodoshin]

Ah yes, I've heard that one as well, along with the most foolish of them all:

"Toriyama hates Dragonball"

[lost in thought]

The goal of bringing out that juicy nugget of information was to quelch the blatant fanboy lie that spread and grew like some virus that Toriyama hated GT and stormed into Toei and Fuji Television tearing people down like so much Vegeta.

Haha, good one.

Now can we all PLEASE stop bashing GT constantly?

The Magic Eightball: Try again next time.
On a more serious note, no offense- but some how I doubt that GT bashing can be eleminated from Daizenshuu Ex forums entirely.

The ending to GT far surpasses the crap that Toriyama-sensei wrote to end the actual series with... even taking into consideration the re-write in the kanzenban.

I've slept through most of GT (in Japanese, yes)... so I know I don't like it all that much. But the ending, to this day, still makes me a cry like a little damn school-girl, where-as the "Z" ending results in a "Whatever..." response from me.

I agree, the ending was something else. But an ending that had me even more choked up, was the ending to the GT Tv Special, that was something else entirely... I was in tears. Goku was like, fucking dead, and came back for a second, and was gone.

It was a masterful representation of the dead.

[B-kun]

The reason I'm getting picky about it is because it's sickening. It's reminding me of middle and high school, actually. I got into anime, starting with Sailor Moon and DBZ, and people seems to have the great time mocking me for it, even though most of them had either never seen it or only saw 3 seconds and declared it sucked. And, much like GT, a lot of them hated anime simply because was deemed "cool". And don't tell me GT doesn't have that problem, I've had to spend hours convincing people to watch it just because they heard it was bad by some fanboy.

Whee, I think I lost my point, but yeah

[VegettoEX]

The reason I'm getting picky about it is because it's sickening. It's reminding me of middle and high school, actually. I got into anime, starting with Sailor Moon and DBZ, and people seems to have the great time mocking me for it, even though most of them had either never seen it or only saw 3 seconds and declared it sucked. And, much like GT, a lot of them hated anime simply because was deemed "cool". And don't tell me GT doesn't have that problem, I've had to spend hours convincing people to watch it just because they heard it was bad by some fanboy.

Whee, I think I lost my point, but yeah

You do realize that, in turn, everyone else could say, "Man, I'm so sick of hearing people tell us not to bash DBGT."...?

I don't give a flying fuck what your thoughts on the show are, so long as they're presented in a logical, civil, and coherent manner. I don't actually see anyone running around ranting "GT sucks! GT sucks!" Therefore, there's no problem on hand.

[omae no kaasan]

I got into anime, starting with Sailor Moon and DBZ, and people seems to have the great time mocking me for it, even though most of them had either never seen it or only saw 3 seconds and declared it sucked.

Japanese animation fans in the US (your's truly included for much of my fandom) are constantly worried about what people think about a show because it reflects what people think about them.

That's why I wasted a shitload of my time/life preaching why DBZ isn't for kids and is 'cool'.

Then when I stopped being a dumbass (to a degree) I realized if I love the show for what people think of me, and not the show itself, I'd better reevaluate my fandom.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

GT sucks! GT sucks!

<_<

It does...

[VegettoEX]

GT sucks! GT sucks!

<_<

It does...

This was not an invitation to try and be "funny" and be a jackass. I'm completely serious. Please act accordingly.

Back to the topic at hand.

[Trunks Master Swordsman03]

Personally I liked GT as a show, however in comparison to Toriyama's work, it was a disgrace. I mean Toei takes the DragonBalls & turns them against the Z-Fighters, that's just wrong. Then you have a villain called Baby!!!!!! I would say Super 17 was the only cool villain through GT, but he only got a 7 episode Saga .

I loved the idea of Uub & Buu fusing, Majuub was so kool, but then Toei screws it up by making Majuub just as weak as SSJ Goten after the Baby Fight. I mean come on, maybe useless against Omega, but Super 17? No way!

Super Saiyan 4, I think it looked kool & stupid at the same time. I don't have much to say.

What about Gohan? What happened to him, he goes 100% nerd & loses Mystic. Gohan could have been a good asset, ok, I understand Goku surpassing Gohan, & think that's totally believable however Gohan goes from totally awsome to totally useless.

Oh, & Vegeta!!!!! What the heck is that haircut?

[Sun_Wukong]

Its not that GT is bad, its just that its not very good either. I was interested in it just of the fact that it was a continuation of my favorite anime of all time. And I do agree that Toei made a far better ending to the Dragonball saga than Toriyama himself did. And if it didnt exist; Bra, Pan and Uubu would seem like waisted characters.

All in all, I dont hate it. Its just not my favorite.

[Trunks Master Swordsman03]

I completely agree, that's the only reason why I love it, it's a continuation of an empire. Also, I agree about the ending, I love it where Goku goes off, he's immortal (I think).