Translations?

[Nazi Cola]

This is a page from the DragonBall Extreme Battle Collection: Round 2 (I guess, that's just what this one guy told me), and supposedly it confirms Gohan was SSjin 2 in his fight with Dabra by using a picture of him from the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai as a reference.

But I just wanted to know what it actually says before believing it. So if anybody could translate this, major props and thanks.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2h4je3d.jpg

[Son_Gohan]

No, it doesn't state that Gohan was a SSJ2, only one of the images makes some indication to it.

I already requested Herms to translate it, here's what he got:

Battle 35
Son Gohan VS Dabra
Battle Story: The ones who manipulated Spopovitch were Babidi and Dabra, who are trying to revive Majin Boo! Burning with anger, Gohan stands against Dabra to avenge Videl!! How will Gohan fare against the surprisingly formidable Dabra…!?

Fighting Ability Analysis
Son Gohan
Will he persevere with his Super Saiyan power!?
His power compares pretty favorably even to Goku, but there’s also the uncomfortable matter of his recent lack of training…

Dabra
Quite a ruffian! The strongest fighter in the Demon Realm!!
Though obviously skilled in hand-to-hand combat, he’s also an irregular fighter with a mastery of strange techniques.

Gohan has a surprisingly difficult battle! Does he really lack training after all…?
As Goku and co. advance on their way towards Babidi, Babidi’s trusted aide Dabra finally appears before them! Gohan faces him in a one-on-one battle, but Dabra maneuvers skillfully and so the battle goes on for a fairly long time without being decided.

[caption to Gohan firing blast] Power-wise he clearly overwhelms Dabra! …Or he was supposed to, but!?

[caption to Gohan breaking Dabra’s sword] ??? but it has no effect against a Super Saiyan!!

[caption to Dabra smiling] While fighting, Dabra checked Goku and co. out. He seizes upon a certain strategy!

[big red text] “All of you, come at me at once!”

Battle Result
Sensing Vegeta’s evil intentions, Dabra one-sidedly ends the battle in order to manipulate him! While continuing to rile up Gohan and co., he escapes into the depths of the spaceship.

Match Unsettled!
Last Attack: Dabra retreats

[Savage68]

This seems to be based off of the anime, is it not...?

[Herms]

Yeah, it's an anime-based guidebook.

[Kaboom]

Yeah, it's an anime-based guidebook.

That certainly explains the substantial dose of ambiguity.

[Nazi Cola]

Thanks. >_>

Looks like even in the anime, Gohan was just a SSjin, since it mentions SSjin twice, and no SSjin 2.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

To be fair, Dabra's profile in the Daiz does state he fought "an equal battle with Super Saiyan 2 Gohan", or along those lines, so that's one source.

[Kaboom]

To be fair, Dabra's profile in the Daiz does state he fought "an equal battle with Super Saiyan 2 Gohan", or along those lines, so that's one source.

But then another Daizenshuu section or volume goes and says that Teen Gohan's only instance of Super Saiyan 2 is in the volume where he displayed it against Kibito. So the Daizenshuu's word on the matter is self-contradictory, making it useless and leaving the manga itself as the only viable source. Old news...

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I was just throwing it out there for the guy that there was a source stating it. Whether it was credible or not wasn't the point. It's obviously not "old news" for Nazi Cola.

[Son_Gohan]

So the Daizenshuu's word on the matter is self-contradictory, making it useless and leaving the manga itself as the only viable source. Old news...

That's a pretty blatant over-generalization there.

You have two entries coming from two separate books; one source contains concrete evidence, while the other is interpretative.

[Nazi Cola]

No, it is old news to me, I knew it said that. But the point is, now we've got this and another part of the Daiz saying it was just SSjin against Dabra. =/

[Godo]

We don't need the Guidebooks though for this one particular topic...the manga already has the answer:



Gohan has a SSJ1 aura, not a SSJ2 aura, as shown in the picture above. The SSJ1 aura is more fluent, whilst the SSJ2 aura is jagged, and has bolts with electricity.

[Perfect]

We don't need the Guidebooks though for this one particular topic...the manga already has the answer:



Gohan has a SSJ1 aura, not a SSJ2 aura, as shown in the picture above. The SSJ1 aura is more fluent, whilst the SSJ2 aura is jagged, and has bolts with electricity.

Better quality so people can see the difference with a bit more clarity, though I'm still confused as to why he'd fight Dabura in his SSJ state, rather than SSJ2.
http://i36.tinypic.com/ruurmg.jpg
http://i38.tinypic.com/309h5wg.jpg

[rereboy]

Toriyama uses bolts of energy in Dragon Ball to clarify/show great power. The bolts are not exclusive to SSJ2. That`s why Nappa has bolts, for example. Anyone who reads the manga comes to this conclusion.

That being said, I believe its also possible for a SSJ2 to be a SSJ2 without having an aura at that time or having an aura with no bolts of energy, especially if that said SSJ2 is, at the moment, weaker than he should due to not having the right mindset (or not being angry enough).

Gohan is stated to not be angry enough when he fought Dabura and he himself stated that he was afraid of becoming like he was when he fought Cell.
Therefore, he wasn`t with the right mindset to release the full power of his SSJ2, despite being technically a (weaker) SSJ2 at that time, hence the lack of bolts of energy and him being weaker than he should.
(However, even if he released his full SSJ2 power, it would still be weaker than when he defeated Cell due to the lack of training, unless he became mad enough to release enough of his potential to overcome even that).

But, in the tournament, because he had just seen Videl almost die, he had the right mindset (enough anger) to release his full SSJ2 power at that time, hence the bolts of energy (despite being weaker than he was when he killed Cell due to the lack of training).

So, in my opinion, Gohan wasn`t a SSJ1 in that fight, but he also wasn`t giving his best because he wasn`t with the right mindset to do it. Therefore, his SSJ2 wasn`t as powerful as it should be at that time (even considering his lack of training) and because of that, it didn`t have any bolts.
Of course, that wasn`t a problem for Goku and Vegeta and that`s why they had plenty of bolts.

That is also how I explain how Gohan was able to pull the Z sword from the rock when the Kaioshins failed. He was also a SSJ2 at that point, even though his SSJ2 was weaker than it should be due to his mindset.

[Kaboom]

Gohan still had the proper lightning-filled SSj2 aura after he'd been injured, demoralized, and drastically weakened by Cell. Goku and Vegeta still had it after battering on each other and taking more than enough combined damage to awaken Boo. Vegeta still had it after being pounded to a pulp by Boo. I think it's safe to say that attitude or being less-powered-up has little or nothing to do with the proper appearance of an aura.

The lightning bolts have been used as a "special effect" before, yes. I don't think anyone will try claiming that they're exclusive to Super Saiyan 2. But they're a clear and noticeable trademark of the form (in the manga) and are seen clear across the board as such (save for the instance with Gohan which is somehow in-question).

So the odds that Toriyama would draw it a certain way for EVERYONE else in the manga, ever, yet without explanation decide to stop doing so for Gohan (remember, Gohan already clearly and properly displayed Super Saiyan 2 at the tournament, bolts n' all) and only Gohan after some random point are astronomically low. It really seems like reaching. Especially when the only "official" support of it is a typo in a supplementary guidebook.

[Son_Gohan]

Gohan still had the proper lightning-filled SSj2 aura after he'd been injured, demoralized, and drastically weakened by Cell. Goku and Vegeta still had it after battering on each other and taking more than enough combined damage to awaken Boo. Vegeta still had it after being pounded to a pulp by Boo. I think it's safe to say that attitude or being less-powered-up has little or nothing to do with the proper appearance of an aura.

The lightning bolts have been used as a "special effect" before, yes. I don't think anyone will try claiming that they're exclusive to Super Saiyan 2. But they're a clear and noticeable trademark of the form (in the manga) and are seen clear across the board as such (save for the instance with Gohan which is somehow in-question).

So the odds that Toriyama would draw it a certain way for EVERYONE else in the manga, ever, yet without explanation decide to stop doing so for Gohan (remember, Gohan already clearly and properly displayed Super Saiyan 2 at the tournament, bolts n' all) and only Gohan after some random point are astronomically low. It really seems like reaching. Especially when the only "official" support of it is a typo in a supplementary guidebook.

After looking back through those instances, interestingly, there is a difference in the aura's appearance.

We already knew about Gohan losing his entirely after enduring Cell's attack. But after KOing Goku, Majin Vegeta is seen with a normal SSJ aura and only regains the wild, lightning aura after replenishing his energy with a senzu bean:

http://tinypic.com/r/jslldv/4

Then when he gets battered by Buu, he loses it entirely and once regained, the shape isn't as wild as it was before:

http://tinypic.com/r/ibj1wo/4

This one I believe I brought up in the past, but previously, Majin Vegeta had become injured by Buu's attack and the shape of his aura also becomes more tame:



I think it's more safe to say that an individual's power does have an effect on the appearance of their aura. Since after all, we know that "FPSSJ" wasn't a new form of SSJ, but it had a stronger aura because of the difference in power, I don't see it much differently when applied to the Buu era. As for Gohan having lightning at the tournament, I don't think it's something that changed out of nowhere, since different circumstances effected the story afterwards; Gohan was 'supposedly' the only SSJ2 at the time and the strongest character, then there's also the issue of having all the energy taken from his most powerful form.

[rereboy]

Gohan still had the proper lightning-filled SSj2 aura after he'd been injured, demoralized, and drastically weakened by Cell. Goku and Vegeta still had it after battering on each other and taking more than enough combined damage to awaken Boo. Vegeta still had it after being pounded to a pulp by Boo. I think it's safe to say that attitude or being less-powered-up has little or nothing to do with the proper appearance of an aura.

The lightning bolts have been used as a "special effect" before, yes. I don't think anyone will try claiming that they're exclusive to Super Saiyan 2. But they're a clear and noticeable trademark of the form (in the manga) and are seen clear across the board as such (save for the instance with Gohan which is somehow in-question).

So the odds that Toriyama would draw it a certain way for EVERYONE else in the manga, ever, yet without explanation decide to stop doing so for Gohan (remember, Gohan already clearly and properly displayed Super Saiyan 2 at the tournament, bolts n' all) and only Gohan after some random point are astronomically low. It really seems like reaching. Especially when the only "official" support of it is a typo in a supplementary guidebook.

Despite being injured, he was as powerful as he should be.
But when he was demoralized he didn`t even had a aura, let alone bolts, despite having his SSJ2 hair. You can check the manga during the Cell fight and you will realize that its true (after Gohan is injured and before Goku`s convinces him to fight). That`s because auras and bolts are used in a similar fashion to show us power or great power and also, indirectly, resolve and determination.

The removal of Gohan`s energy bolts is, to me, a visual option to show us that he really is not as strong as he should and could be at that moment, due purely to his mindset. But that doesn`t mean that Gohan was just using his SSJ1 power. He was using his SSJ2 power, but he was using it poorly.
To me, Toriyama opted to remove his bolts in that fight, and after it, to show us exactly that, that he wasn`t as strong as he should be, and not that he was fighting only with his SSJ1 power. That is the distinction that I believe should be made and I believe this because I do not believe Toriyama simply forgot the bolts when he used them perfectly on Goku and Vegeta. And I also don`t believe that Gohan would only be using power equivalent to his SSJ1 on Dabura, while attacking Buu`s ball and Buu and while removing the Z sword (it wouldn`t make sense in all those situations).

That is my opinion.

However, its also possible that he simply couldn`t surpass his SSJ1 power in those situations due to his mindset. That is certainly a possibility that I admit. But that, of course, doesn`t explain some inconsistencies like Gohan being able to fight Dabura with his SSJ1 when Goku used his SSJ2 power to kill Yakon or how Gohan was able to pull out the Z sword with only SSJ1 power when the Kaioshins had all failed, which is why I prefer my opinion.

[Senzu_Bean]

But the point is, now we've got this and another part of the Daiz saying it was just SSjin against Dabra. =/

Daizenshuu actually never says Gohan was Super Saiyan against Dabra. What it says, or better, doesn't say is Gohan is Super Saiyan 2 after chapter... whatever it is. But it also doesn't say Gohan is "The Mightiest Warrior" besides the chapter he appears. So claiming Daizenshuu says Gohan is Super Saiyan against Dabra is false.

We don't need the Guidebooks though for this one particular topic...the manga already has the answer

I guess then Vegeta is only at 20,000 against Recoome or Trunks timeline Artificial Humans are #19 and #20 instead of #17 and #18, uh?

[Godo]

I guess then Vegeta is only at 20,000 against Recoome or Trunks timeline Artificial Humans are #19 and #20 instead of #17 and #18, uh?

I said "in this particular topic", which means the question at hand. Your examples are not relevant.
I don't really care what the guidebooks say about this topic, because in one instance the Daizenshuu says that Gohan only used the SSJ2 at the tournament, in another it says that he used it against Dabra.
So, basically, it can't be trusted in this debate.
To use them as evidence is stupid when you are debating this particular matter.

And why is the manga fully correct (please read this too, Rereboy)?
I wasn't talking about the bolts exclusively. The shape of Gohan's aura is the one of a SSJ1. We have never, ever seen someone as a SSJ2 with that shape of their aura, only people as SSJ1.
You can see someone with the SSJ2 aura shape as a SSJ1 though, that is; at FPSSJ, USSJ and USSJ2.
But the fact remains that only a SSJ1 has that particular shape of the aura.
Toriyama drew Gohan as a regular SSJ, not a SSJ2, and no mistake has happened here.
I really don't know why Gohan didn't use the SSJ2 against Dabra, but get over the fact that he used SSJ2, since he didn't.

[Senzu_Bean]

But the fact remains that only a SSJ1 has that particular shape of the aura.

We already knew about Gohan losing his entirely after enduring Cell's attack. But after KOing Goku, Majin Vegeta is seen with a normal SSJ aura and only regains the wild, lightning aura after replenishing his energy with a senzu bean:

http://tinypic.com/r/jslldv/4

I shouldn't even trying to defend it cause I don't particular agree with this matter.