So Goku's BP was only 23.000??

[dbgtFO]

When Goku arrived on Namek and beat up the Ginyu's it was pretty obvious that he was well above them, his BP actually was at 90.000(but only in bursts).
But then Ginyu steps onto the scene and takes Goku's body from him because it was so much stronger than Ginyu's.
At first it looks like Ginyu has all of Goku's strenght, when he comments about his new speed, but when he decides to show everyone how strong he is his BP only goes as high as 23.000. Goku claims it's because he can't control his body, but even so shouldn't it have been at 90.000 at least?
I hope someone can come up with a good answer because I myself am confused

[hleV]

Goku claims it's because he can't control his body, but even so shouldn't it have been at 90.000 at least?

Toriyama decided that not.

[Kaboom]

It's not just a matter of how much power Goku has, but what type of control he has over it. The way Goku has learned to control his power might not be the same way Ginyu does (in fact, it certainly isn't). When Ginyu tries to do things "his way," it's not going to work that well.

[dbgtFO]

It's not just a matter of how much power Goku has, but what type of control he has over it. The way Goku has learned to control his power might not be the same way Ginyu does (in fact, it certainly isn't). When Ginyu tries to do things "his way," it's not going to work that well.

Oh I see that would mean that Ginyu's type of ki manipulation is different than what Earthlings are taught, which makes sense because there has to be some differences between how species do stuff.

[Kendamu]

It's not just a matter of how much power Goku has, but what type of control he has over it. The way Goku has learned to control his power might not be the same way Ginyu does (in fact, it certainly isn't). When Ginyu tries to do things "his way," it's not going to work that well.

Oh I see that would mean that Ginyu's type of ki manipulation is different than what Earthlings are taught, which makes sense because there has to be some differences between how species do stuff.

Not only that, but Goku has an extreme amount of control over his ki because it was necessary to perform the Kaiouken. Ginyu didn't seem to realize that. Aside from his other problems of not having mastered Goku's body, Ginyu would've never been able to fully realize the power of Goku's body because of Goku's ki training from Kaiou.

[Dayspring]

Ginyu's ki manipulation skills are based solely on the body and not the spirit or the combination of spirit and body. In that sense, it's more like what Vegeta and Nappa did on Earth. So the 23,000 is just the power Goku emits when you ignore the effects his spirit has on his strength.

The 90,000 came from the fact that Goku's base, which is stated to be above 60,000, becomes 180,000 when multiplied by either 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 (meaning one of the Kaiokens other than x10). The only figure that meets both criterions is 90,000 at kaioken x2.

[dbgtFO]

Ginyu's ki manipulation skills are based solely on the body and not the spirit or the combination of spirit and body. In that sense, it's more like what Vegeta and Nappa did on Earth. So the 23,000 is just the power Goku emits when you ignore the effects his spirit has on his strength.

The 90,000 came from the fact that Goku's base, which is stated to be above 60,000, becomes 180,000 when multiplied by either 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 (meaning one of the Kaiokens other than x10). The only figure that meets both criterions is 90,000 at kaioken x2.

Ah I get it now thanks

[Senzu_Bean]

Ginyu can manipulate his battle power too. So he be only at 23,000 in Goku's body doesn't necessarily have to do with that.

[FindKenshi]

Ginyu attempted to power up his level when he hit 23000. Which means he was even weaker then that upon initially taking the body. So I don't understand how people can theorize that Ginyu's changed bodies before now. His statement of "And I've been waiting for this!" combined with his lack of experience and becoming weaker after he did it, it reminds me that Ginyu probably has never used this trump card before. So how he even knew he could do so is just up to your own imagination. Call it 'magic'.

[Senzu_Bean]

Jeehse (or whatever his name is) knew about Ginyu's technique. And then the guides also say Ginyu already used it before, to the point his body isn't his original body.

[FindKenshi]

Jeehse (or whatever his name is) knew about Ginyu's technique. And then the guides also say Ginyu already used it before, to the point his body isn't his original body.

Jeice knowing about it isn't proof that he did it before. Ginyu knows he can do it too. By your logic before Ginyu did it the first time, even he didn't know about it? And about how "the guides say this" etc.. it's time let go, lol. I mean I know the site is called "DaizEx" and all, but honestly the guides are full of contradictions to these manga of ours.

[Senzu_Bean]

By your logic before Ginyu did it the first time, even he didn't know about it?

I found hard to believe he knew something before ever try it.

And about how "the guides say this" etc.. it's time let go, lol. I mean I know the site is called "DaizEx" and all, but honestly the guides are full of contradictions to these manga of ours.

LOL!

[Bussani]

Ginyu attempted to power up his level when he hit 23000. Which means he was even weaker then that upon initially taking the body. So I don't understand how people can theorize that Ginyu's changed bodies before now. His statement of "And I've been waiting for this!" combined with his lack of experience and becoming weaker after he did it, it reminds me that Ginyu probably has never used this trump card before. So how he even knew he could do so is just up to your own imagination. Call it 'magic'.

Or he's just never stolen the body of someone like Goku, whose strength comes greatly from spiritual training. I don't even know if his power went up when he took the "powering up" pose--for all we know it could have been steadily falling the whole time he was flying to Freeza's ship.

[Travis Touchdown]

Going from all of that, I wonder if Goku could make Ginyu's body more powerful than Ginyu could.

[Dayspring]

Ginyu attempted to power up his level when he hit 23000. Which means he was even weaker then that upon initially taking the body. So I don't understand how people can theorize that Ginyu's changed bodies before now. His statement of "And I've been waiting for this!" combined with his lack of experience and becoming weaker after he did it, it reminds me that Ginyu probably has never used this trump card before. So how he even knew he could do so is just up to your own imagination. Call it 'magic'.

Or he's just never stolen the body of someone like Goku, whose strength comes greatly from spiritual training. I don't even know if his power went up when he took the "powering up" pose--for all we know it could have been steadily falling the whole time he was flying to Freeza's ship.

If Ginyu's body powers up by gathering energy, I think it would work a bit if he used it in Goku's body, too. Jeice had no problems keeping up with Ginyu-in-Goku, so I think it's safe to say he started off pretty friggin' weak (meaning at most as much as Jeice's BP was). Plus Goku was shown to be dropping down to 5,000 whenever not actually using his strength, so I think Ginyu got that as his starting point.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Ginyu attempted to power up his level when he hit 23000. Which means he was even weaker then that upon initially taking the body. So I don't understand how people can theorize that Ginyu's changed bodies before now. His statement of "And I've been waiting for this!" combined with his lack of experience and becoming weaker after he did it, it reminds me that Ginyu probably has never used this trump card before. So how he even knew he could do so is just up to your own imagination. Call it 'magic'.

Or he's just never stolen the body of someone like Goku, whose strength comes greatly from spiritual training. I don't even know if his power went up when he took the "powering up" pose--for all we know it could have been steadily falling the whole time he was flying to Freeza's ship.

Could be just that Ginyu never faced anyone afterwards who posed a threat to him, and thus never got a chance to know the full weaknesses of using someone else's body. But I believe Ginyu was in his original body the first time we see him anyway, since it's easier to think that way and nothing contradicts it.

[Senzu_Bean]

...nothing contradicts it.

But then you have an OFFICIAL guide that claims that body isn't his original body and people don't accept cause?

[Travis Touchdown]

...nothing contradicts it.

But then you have an OFFICIAL guide that claims that body isn't his original body and people don't accept cause?

I could understand why a few wouldn't accept it. I mean, there are a handful of other inconsistencies within the guides and then whenever we see Ginyu's spirit in the anime, it's the purple body we all know and love.

[Piccolo Daimao]

...nothing contradicts it.

But then you have an OFFICIAL guide that claims that body isn't his original body and people don't accept cause?

I don't take everything that the Daizenshuu says as gospel. It's like with the battle powers. Some people label them as fact, yet Toriyama only approved of the Daizenshuu; i.e., probably skim-read it and gave them the OK. Normally, we do take a lot of what the Daizenshuu says as the best source of evidence for what isn't explained in the manga, and mostly it's not contradicted, but then we have things that are debatable yet label them as true in their guidebooks (like the Gohan-SSj2-Dabra thing). Plus, there's things that you could say may mean that Ginyu in fact isn't in someone else's body. For example, he states that he's able to control his battle power like Goku's (up to 120,000, in fact). There is case for argument that he's not in his original body, but I'm not going to say "Yep, he was definitely in someone else's body", just because a guidebook says so. Weekly Jump says the God of Earth's power is 220, but it doesn't mean it's true, when there's a lot that says it's not.

[Senzu_Bean]

... but I'm not going to say "Yep, he was definitely in someone else's body", just because a guidebook says so.

Why not?! The guides are suppose to give supplementary information. Basically expand on concepts only hinted on the actual story. I don't understand why people choose to believe Ginyu's body is his original body because there is that possibility when an official guide claim it isn't, when there is that possibility too.