DragonBall Z Kai - Cable TV Version (NickToons)

[Tanooki Kuribo]

Oh shit. Yea, I did miss that line. Thanks for pointing that out. Kinda embarassing . Oh well, added as if it was always there...

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

After some banter, Zarbon asks Vegeta why he turned against them and Freeza. Vegeta answers...

This might be along the lines of the earlier discussion of Namekians having one gender vs. no gender, but...it has always bugged me to no end when a non-human is referred to as a 'man'. I didn't imagine that line was a broadcast-only line when I'd seen that episode, but I'm glad to know it was because I really hate that. While we often use the word 'man' to mean 'male', it obviously refers to a human being, which Freeza and his cohorts are not. Using male pronouns (such as in the case of Namekians) is understandable in most languages for obvious reasons, but the word 'man' in particular just...grr. I remember recently seeing an episode of Invader ZIM wherein an alien swapped two packages after making a lengthy 'what is a man' sort of speech, specifically referring to himself/possibly his species as being 'man', and it just bothers me when that crops up in sci-fi type situations.

Also, am I the only person who never understood the funky colors used in that scene? I was surprised that wasn't reanimated in Kai, honestly, because it's so different from the norm of the series and comes off very bizarre XD

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

After some banter, Zarbon asks Vegeta why he turned against them and Freeza. Vegeta answers...

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This might be along the lines of the earlier discussion of Namekians having one gender vs. no gender, but...it has always bugged me to no end when a non-human is referred to as a 'man'. I didn't imagine that line was a broadcast-only line when I'd seen that episode, but I'm glad to know it was because I really hate that. While we often use the word 'man' to mean 'male', it obviously refers to a human being, which Freeza and his cohorts are not. Using male pronouns (such as in the case of Namekians) is understandable in most languages for obvious reasons, but the word 'man' in particular just...grr.

If something has no gender or you don't know the gender of something, I don't see what's so wrong with using "man". It happens all the time in the real world and fiction alike. Singling Dragon Ball out on this, is unfair. Besides, "I hate that genderless being" would sound weird.

[ThunderPX]

Besides, all the Namekians look and sound like guys.

[Gaffer Tape]

It's still a gender bias, that man is somehow the default in any given situation. Interestingly enough, though, it's quite the opposite in human reproduction. A developing fetus is female by default unless developed into a male if I recall correctly. Funny that...

[Tanooki Kuribo]

Power Up Krillin! Freeza's Mounting Apprehension!





Eventually Krillin and Dende make it to the Great Elder's place. While there, the Great Elder goes into how horrible the current situation is...



The Great Elder then asks Krillin why he wants his Dragon Ball for himself, he starts off by saying...



Meanwhile, one of Freeza's henchmen comes across a village that's been attacked. As he flies down there is a Namekian crawling towards the ocean. We see the Namekian remembering Vegeta throwing the Dragon Ball into the water, but it seems TV version Namekian remembers it differently...



Yes, very odd. Don't know why that line was cut out.

As the crawling Namekian looks up, Freeza's henchman is standing right in his path. The henchman asks who did this, the Namekian says "it was the Saiyan." The Namekian asks for help but gets blasted instead. This is a two part edit. The first part was where the Namekian asked for help. This was cut all together...



The Namekian getting blasted wasn't cut, but was altered. There was a shot of the henchman standing over the Namekian. They added a light affect to that shot and put the blast sound effect over it. You know the Namekian was blasted...but I guess this was less violent....?



In the next scene Zarbon reports back to Freeza. He tells Freeza that Vegeta has been dealt with, prompting Freeza to reply...



To which Zarbon says...



Oh, also Zarbon has some blood on his face in this scene. It's removed in the TV version...





Pissed that Zarbon didn't even check to see if Vegeta was dead, he says "You mean to tell me you procured no confirmation of his death!?" It was really creepy but, was cut...



While they're talking, the henchman from the previous scene comes in and tells him he found a village. All is well and good until he says he killed a Namekian. Start the cut! Frezza yells at him for killing the only witness, and eventually kills him.



Meanwhile Vegeta is crawling out of the ocean where, in the uncut version he says...



And in the TV version he says...



Yea! What the Hell is this all about?! It's not just a little strange, it's really fucking strange. I'm guessing this was a mistake? But how could that be? Oh well, I was surprised to see this [line] edited like this.

By now, Zarbon has brought Vegeta to Freeza's ship where he sits in the healing tank. When asked how he's doing Appule responds...



Episode 25 comes to a close soon after this.

[Mewzard]

Okay, now that definitely had to be a flub. Reversed lines or something. Finished works in the DVD version, it doesn't really hurt it, but die in the edited version? That's just unexpected...I wonder if any parents complained.

[Metalwario64]

The swapped line fuels my suspicion that Nappa's line right before the "It's over 8,000/9,000" lines were swapped as well. I think this because in the uncut verison he yells the original, memefied Ocean line "VEGETA!? WHAT DOES THE SCOUTER SAY ABOUT HIS POWER LEVEL!??", and in the TV version he says, with more appropriate delivery something like "Vegeta! What's wrong? What is his power level?", which makes no sense considering the "uncut" line was originally part of the "OVER 9,000!!11lol" meme, so why did they put it with the uncut line, and a re-translated line with the TV version?

Both lines of his response are different, but I don't know what that's about.

[Tanooki Kuribo]

The swapped line fuels my suspicion that Nappa's line right before the "It's over 8,000/9,000" lines were swapped as well. I think this because in the uncut verison he yells the original, memefied Ocean line "VEGETA!? WHAT DOES THE SCOUTER SAY ABOUT HIS POWER LEVEL!??", and in the TV version he says, with more appropriate delivery something like "Vegeta! What's wrong? What is his power level?", which makes no sense considering the "uncut" line was originally part of the "OVER 9,000!!11lol" meme, so why did they put it with the uncut line, and a re-translated line with the TV version?

Yea, I was thinking the same thing while writing this. I mean, could it be that some edited lines were intended for the uncut release? Who knows how many other lines slipped through the cracks, this one is just obvious because he says "die".

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

If something has no gender or you don't know the gender of something, I don't see what's so wrong with using "man". It happens all the time in the real world and fiction alike. Singling Dragon Ball out on this, is unfair. Besides, "I hate that genderless being" would sound weird.

It's not about gender in this case, though. Like I said, pronouns are different, but the word 'man' specifically refers to human beings. When we're referring to male animals in real life, we call them males, not men. Because they're not men, they're animals. Freeza and the Namekians and all the other aliens, male to their species though they may be, are also not 'men'.

It could be passable for Gokou, Vegeta, Piccolo, etc who eventually come to make their lives on Earth among humans - especially in the case of Gokou, who has always considered himself an Earthling first - but it just sounds wrong referring to intergalactic tyrant Freeza as a 'man'. No one said he's genderless; he's quite obviously male (and finally in the dub as well), but he's not a man. Make sense? A line like 'I hate the guy' would make more sense, IMO. I still refer to my cat as a guy or a boy, but he's not a man-cat...unless something happens during full moons that I'm unaware of.

On the subject of the swapped death-coverup lines, I'd guess it was a mistake because they're rushing these out the door so fast, so the broadcast line got put in the wrong spot. I don't understand the need for so much of this death coverup in the first place...maybe it's the nature of the show being so violent? Because I'm watching a Fairly OddParents episode on Nicktoons as I type this very post where Mark Chang's alien fiance is flying around, blasting things with lasers, and saying repeatedly 'marry me...OR DIE!!'. I hear death references in regular cartoons like this all the time, along with butt jokes and the like that seem to be routinely cut from DBZ. Footage edits I understand, but so many dialogue changes seem unnecessary. Maybe it's because cartoons like Fairly OddParents are more obviously comedic and 'cartoony' in nature, so it's not as controversial? But then, there's Avatar...I just don't understand these censors.

[Tanooki Kuribo]

You know, they do say die in the TV version of DragonBall Z Kai. It's becoming more and more rare but they do say it. It was said 3 times in this episode alone... well, it was "killed", "die" and "dead".

I wasn't shocked that it was actually in the TV version but that, it's a word that they usually have to put some effort in to take out, and here they are putting some effort in to add it.

[Tsukento]

What's especially odd is that we hear references to death and being killed quite often in Avatar: The Last Airbender. It wouldn't be so noticeable if Nicktoons didn't have a tendency to air basically marathons every night next to DBZK.

Kinda reminds me of how Cartoon Network used to let Viz get away with certain things for Naruto, but wouldn't let FUNi get away with the same things on One Piece.

[AgitoZ]

What's especially odd is that we hear references to death and being killed quite often in Avatar: The Last Airbender. It wouldn't be so noticeable if Nicktoons didn't have a tendency to air basically marathons every night next to DBZK.

Well it's not like Avatar is in production right now so they can't change much. Maybe Nick had less strict policies at the time.

Kinda reminds me of how Cartoon Network used to let Viz get away with certain things for Naruto, but wouldn't let FUNi get away with the same things on One Piece.

This always pissed me off. I mean some material was pretty gruesome on Naruto at the time, yet OP couldn't even show blood. Also I forgot did they let that smoking leader guy from Naruto smoke? Cause I know Sanji wasn't allowed.

[Innagadadavida]

What's especially odd is that we hear references to death and being killed quite often in Avatar: The Last Airbender. It wouldn't be so noticeable if Nicktoons didn't have a tendency to air basically marathons every night next to DBZK.

Well it's not like Avatar is in production right now so they can't change much. Maybe Nick had less strict policies at the time.

Actually, that's not totally true. A one-season spin-off/sequel series is in production called Avatar: Legend of Korra. Not that it's relevant to your point, but I just wanted to point that out. It will be interesting to see what kind of content is in that series too, considering they've already basically told fans it is going to be more "mature".

[Gaffer Tape]

And if the censorship policies had changed, that wouldn't mean they couldn't edit Avatar, just like they're editing Dragon Ball.

[JulieYBM]

And if the censorship policies had changed, that wouldn't mean they couldn't edit Avatar, just like they're editing Dragon Ball.

Well, Nicktoons is telling FUNi to edit it. Nicktoons doesn't technically have to spend any of their own money on it.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well... yes, you're right. But what I meant is that just because a show has "already wrapped production" doesn't mean that it can't be edited.

[Vegeta1056]

You know, I don't know why it's a big deal about people saying "Die" and "Kill" in DBZKai. They say it all the time in Avatar the Last Airbender which is on around the same time as DBZKai.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

You know, I don't know why it's a big deal about people saying "Die" and "Kill" in DBZKai. They say it all the time in Avatar the Last Airbender which is on around the same time as DBZKai.

...I do believe this is the same thing that we've been discussing already. Or are you just concurring? o_O

But yeah, I don't know...is it because DBKai is actually a foreign show, which - inexplicably - seems to be the grounds for a lot of series' to be censored more than content-equal American-produced series'? Is it because most of the fighting in Avatar strictly involves the use of magical powers manipulating the elements, and that even when people die, they're not being explicitly impaled, vaporized, having their limbs torn off, etc? I mean, to me, the issue isn't just 'OMG why they censor this' but the logic behind it. Let's take a look at DBKai with all the footage edited, as it airs on Nicktoons. Couldn't we say that in that form, it's no more violent than Avatar? When a lot of contact shots (the kind usually replaced with flash edits to cover the hit connecting) are edited out, blood is painted away, and the particularly brutal content is removed or altered...then as far as what's being shown onscreen, it's really not any more violent than Avatar is.

So then, compare the footage-edited DBKai, to uncut made-for-kids-television-already Avatar. Avatar can get away with explicitly mentioning killing and death, most likely, due to the nature of the magical powers being used (again, people aren't usually being exploded or torn limb from limb), and because we don't see most of the deaths. Even the onscreen deaths don't 'show' brutality the same way Dragonball does - Zhao drowns at the end of season 1, and Jet's death is left pretty vague to the point where myself and other fans I know didn't actually realize he died the first time around (the main clue is when he says he's going to be okay, and Toph responds in a low voice, 'he's lying...'). That's a little different than showing things like the heroes being absolutely slaughtered by Nappa in the Saiyajin fight, or Vegeta and Freeza's goons going apeshit on village after village of innocents. But when we're talking about the edited Nicktoons cut of Kai, most of these overly brutal actions are already edited down to be on par with Avatar violence-wise...so what I can't understand is why the dialogue has to receive so much of this dance-around-death-without-saying-it treatment.

A lot of shows, Avatar included, will use euphemisms for death and killing like 'destroy' or 'end' or 'finish', but they'll mix them in with the actual words enough that it doesn't feel unnatural. I'm aware that the occasional mention of death slips by in the edited Nicktoons broadcast, but they are going a bit too much out of their way to remove as many as possible. That's the logic that bothers me. We already have sanitized footage - I'm okay with that, I'm not one of those blockheaded elitist fans who refuses to watch an edited series on TV by the mere fact that it's edited, because if I want to see it uncut, I can go get the DVD - but why does the dialogue need to be tampered with that much, when a show that airs alongside it 90% of the time gets away with it? Just edit the footage and, except a few more extreme instances, leave the words 'die' and 'kill' alone. I'm assuming the target demographic of Nicktoons DBKai is the same as Avatar. Kids aren't so stupid that they can't tell what's happening - people are dying. You're not fooling anyone. In some cases, sure, the rewritten dialogue is bearable (actually looking at Tanooki's newest comparisons I like most of Freeza's rewritten lines better, maybe because those are the ones I've actually heard spoken, but also because they still flow so naturally), but in others it just sounds really stiff and stupid. I'm not expecting the audio to go completely unedited, but I really do think they're overzealous when it comes to these things, and tampering with more than actually necessary...and I do think most of that is FUNimation's doing, and not just what the network demands. They've got a standard to conform to, but I've seen enough of a pattern in most of FUNi's edited series' compared to series' by other companies (like VIZ's Naruto) to think it's accurate saying they do a fair amount of 'play it safe' editing.

[Tanooki Kuribo]

While we often use the word 'man' to mean 'male', it obviously refers to a human being, which Freeza and his cohorts are not.

Hmm, King Cold calls Freeza "son", Freeza calls him "Papa", Cooler calls Freeza "Brother". I think calling him 'male' is totally fine.