The False Super Saiyan

[Piccolo Daimao]

What did you guys think about Son Goku's False Super Saiyan in DBZ Movie 4?

I thought, for the brief period it was in the film for, it was a cool power-up that was much closer to the legend of the Super Saiyan than the actual transformation, and he was completely blinded by rage. I liked the appearance and aura, and, although some people dislike how short it was (considering it was the title of the film), I think it still worked somewhat because it's a temporary power-up only maintained by Goku's rage.

Plus, those flames Goku left on Slug after he broke his hand and punched him in the cheek were a pretty cool way of showing Goku's strength.

[Codarik]

I think that scene is the most memorable moment in movie 4. I really liked the False Super Saiyan design, and I really liked how FUNimation added "Disturbed - Stupify". It fit very well with the scene, imo.

[Sun-Wukong]

Yes, I loved the False Super Saiyan design and Movie 4 in general. In fact, I might even go so far as to say I prefer it to the real Super Saiyan design from a purely aesthetic stand point.

[TheGreatness25]

I forget what it looked like in movie 4, but if I think it is what it is, isn't it the same thing as when Goku used the Kaio-ken power-up in front of Ginyu? It just looks like a more intense Kaio-ken. In that case, it can't really be a false Super Saiyan because no other Saiyan is able to perform the Kaio-ken, unless the red aura is from the transformation itself and doesn't have anything to do with the Kaio-ken.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I forget what it looked like in movie 4, but if I think it is what it is, isn't it the same thing as when Goku used the Kaio-ken power-up in front of Ginyu? It just looks like a more intense Kaio-ken. In that case, it can't really be a false Super Saiyan because no other Saiyan is able to perform the Kaio-ken, unless the red aura is from the transformation itself and doesn't have anything to do with the Kaio-ken.

There may be a reddish tint to the False Super Saiyan, but it looks overall golden. Not like the Kaio-Ken, which has a red aura.

It's definitely not got anything to do with Kaio-Ken, since Kaio says Goku's become the Super Saiyan.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

Isn't this whole "False Super Saiyan" thing was just a mistake on Toei's part?

[JulieYBM]

I really liked it. It introduced one of my favorite background music pieces that would reappear in the series and it really gave the whole feeling a sense of horrorific terror.

[Herms]

Isn't this whole "False Super Saiyan" thing was just a mistake on Toei's part?

No, not really. DBZ movie 4 came out before Goku actually transformed into a Super Saiyan in the manga, so the anime staff asked Toriyama for ideas on how to portray the transformation in the movie. Toriyama suggested that Goku's hair stand straight up, which I suppose means that the anime staff came up with the other details on their own. This tidbit is mentioned in Daizenshuu 7. Then the form got labeled as False Super Saiyan in the daizenshuu to distinguish it from the real Super Saiyan form.

You might be thinking of the other thing that fans call False Super Saiyan, which happens at the start of the afterlife tournament filler arc when Goku's down in Hell and does what looks like some sort of half-Super Saiyan transformation. His hair stands straight up, but stays black, and he has an aura, but the sound effect is different than normal. Unlike the DBZ movie 4 thing, this transformation has never been official labeled as "False Super Saiyan" (or anything else for that matter), and is apparently an animation mistake. In the next episode preview for the episode in question, it shows Goku actually becoming a full-fledged Super Saiyan. So apparently when it came time for the actual episode, they forgot to color Goku's hair right and messed up the sound effect.

[NeoKING]

Isn't this whole "False Super Saiyan" thing was just a mistake on Toei's part?

No, not really. DBZ movie 4 came out before Goku actually transformed into a Super Saiyan in the manga, so the anime staff asked Toriyama for ideas on how to portray the transformation in the movie. Toriyama suggested that Goku's hair stand straight up, which I suppose means that the anime staff came up with the other details on their own. This tidbit is mentioned in Daizenshuu 7. Then the form got labeled as False Super Saiyan in the daizenshuu to distinguish it from the real Super Saiyan form.

So, Toei intended on spoiling the transformation? I... don't know how I would've felt about that.

[JulieYBM]

Isn't this whole "False Super Saiyan" thing was just a mistake on Toei's part?

No, not really. DBZ movie 4 came out before Goku actually transformed into a Super Saiyan in the manga, so the anime staff asked Toriyama for ideas on how to portray the transformation in the movie. Toriyama suggested that Goku's hair stand straight up, which I suppose means that the anime staff came up with the other details on their own. This tidbit is mentioned in Daizenshuu 7. Then the form got labeled as False Super Saiyan in the daizenshuu to distinguish it from the real Super Saiyan form.

So, Toei intended on spoiling the transformation? I... don't know how I would've felt about that.

Well, the movie is called Super Saiyan Son Gokû...

[NeoKING]

Well, the movie is called Super Saiyan Son Gokû...

But, it's the fact that they'd release it before the Super Saiyan even appeared in the manga. And it's not even a canon film.

[MetaMoss]

You might be thinking of the other thing that fans call False Super Saiyan, which happens at the start of the afterlife tournament filler arc when Goku's down in Hell and does what looks like some sort of half-Super Saiyan transformation. His hair stands straight up, but stays black, and he has an aura, but the sound effect is different than normal. Unlike the DBZ movie 4 thing, this transformation has never been official labeled as "False Super Saiyan" (or anything else for that matter), and is apparently an animation mistake. In the next episode preview for the episode in question, it shows Goku actually becoming a full-fledged Super Saiyan. So apparently when it came time for the actual episode, they forgot to color Goku's hair right and messed up the sound effect.

Actually, I believe they changed Goku's hair for that episode to black as a last-minute thing so to make Paikuhan unaware of the transformation until the tournament. I heard they decided it too late for reanimation, so they just blacked out the hair and eyes.

[JulieYBM]

Well, the movie is called Super Saiyan Son Gokû...

But, it's the fact that they'd release it before the Super Saiyan even appeared in the manga. And it's not even a canon film.

These are the same people who tell you somebody is going to die...in the episode title. They don't care about spoiling things because it doesn't negatively affect sales or ratings.

[Herms]

Actually, I believe they changed Goku's hair for that episode to black as a last-minute thing so to make Paikuhan unaware of the transformation until the tournament. I heard they decided it too late for reanimation, so they just blacked out the hair and eyes.

It's possible, but I'm not aware of any official source saying that (maybe Hujio would know.

[NeoKING]

Well, the movie is called Super Saiyan Son Gokû...

But, it's the fact that they'd release it before the Super Saiyan even appeared in the manga. And it's not even a canon film.

These are the same people who tell you somebody is going to die...in the episode title. They don't care about spoiling things because it doesn't negatively affect sales or ratings.

I guess.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

Isn't this whole "False Super Saiyan" thing was just a mistake on Toei's part?

No, not really. DBZ movie 4 came out before Goku actually transformed into a Super Saiyan in the manga, so the anime staff asked Toriyama for ideas on how to portray the transformation in the movie. Toriyama suggested that Goku's hair stand straight up, which I suppose means that the anime staff came up with the other details on their own. This tidbit is mentioned in Daizenshuu 7. Then the form got labeled as False Super Saiyan in the daizenshuu to distinguish it from the real Super Saiyan form.

Do you know who did came up with the idea of Goku transforming in that movie? Toriyama or Toei?

You might be thinking of the other thing that fans call False Super Saiyan, which happens at the start of the afterlife tournament filler arc when Goku's down in Hell and does what looks like some sort of half-Super Saiyan transformation. His hair stands straight up, but stays black, and he has an aura, but the sound effect is different than normal. Unlike the DBZ movie 4 thing, this transformation has never been official labeled as "False Super Saiyan" (or anything else for that matter), and is apparently an animation mistake. In the next episode preview for the episode in question, it shows Goku actually becoming a full-fledged Super Saiyan. So apparently when it came time for the actual episode, they forgot to color Goku's hair right and messed up the sound effect.

No, I already know about that.

It's possible, but I'm not aware of any official source saying that (maybe Hujio would know.

It makes much more sense, though. I mean, how could they forgot about something so important?

[Bussani]

Actually, I believe they changed Goku's hair for that episode to black as a last-minute thing so to make Paikuhan unaware of the transformation until the tournament. I heard they decided it too late for reanimation, so they just blacked out the hair and eyes.

It's possible, but I'm not aware of any official source saying that (maybe Hujio would know.

Well, the clip of that scene in the next episode preview showed him as a regular Super Saiyan, didn't it? So it does seem like they animated it that way first and then changed their mind. "Seem" isn't an official source, of course.

[Herms]

I guess I find it strange that the anime staff would be that concerned about consistency in this case when they haven't been in so many others. It's been awhile since I've seen the story arc, but I don't remember Paikuhan really paying any attention to Goku during the "Pseudo-Super Saiyan" part anyway, and I don't remember that much emphasis being placed on his reaction to Goku becoming a Super Saiyan during the match. It seems like a lot of effort to go towards correcting what would have been such a minor inconsistency.

Do you know who did came up with the idea of Goku transforming in that movie? Toriyama or Toei?

Probably Toei, since there's nothing saying Toriyama had anything to do with the actual plot of the movie.

[MetaMoss]

Actually, I believe they changed Goku's hair for that episode to black as a last-minute thing so to make Paikuhan unaware of the transformation until the tournament. I heard they decided it too late for reanimation, so they just blacked out the hair and eyes.

It's possible, but I'm not aware of any official source saying that (maybe Hujio would know.

Well, the clip of that scene in the next episode preview showed him as a regular Super Saiyan, didn't it? So it does seem like they animated it that way first and then changed their mind. "Seem" isn't an official source, of course.

Yeah. But I pretty sure that VegettoEX said something about that on Episode 233 of the podcast, where they reviewed the Tournament Arc. Something about it exists. The hair change can't have been an animation error though. There seems to be a pulled Youtube video explaining the matter.

[Savage68]

It's been awhile since I've seen the story arc, but I don't remember Paikuhan really paying any attention to Goku during the "Pseudo-Super Saiyan" part anyway, and I don't remember that much emphasis being placed on his reaction to Goku becoming a Super Saiyan during the match.

In Episode 198, Pikkon was slightly puzzled, but at the beginning of Episode 199, Pikkon was literally dumbfounded at Super Saiyan Goku and his ki.