Could an Android use Kaio-ken?

[Saiga]

My question isn't whether an Android could learn Kaio-ken, since I know most people believe that only Goku was able to learn it (and that the humans & Piccolo failed to). But provided an Android was capable of learning the technique, would it actually work in doubling their power? Androids don't have ki, but they do have artificial energy.

What do you think?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I'd say no, the ones we see couldn't actually use the technique (except Cell of course, because he does use ki).

If the infinite energy models did somehow manage to successfully activate it, well, 17 and 18 MIGHT be able to pull it off because their modifications are organic, but 16 just couldn't. Would probably overload and destroy their generator in the process though.

The absorption types, I don't know. I guess it depends on how their energy is stored before they use it (especially the natural ki they steal). But I'd think there would probably be some sort of access problem for all of it because they are mechanical. Think Kaioken not being able to reach the reserve because of a "firewall" equivalent. xD

[Fox666]

I would say only No.17 and 18 would be able to do so, since it appears that according to the Daizenshuu they use Ki-based techniques in contrast to the others .

[hleV]

I don't think #17 & #18 would be able to do Kaio-ken, as IMO their ki level is only equal to an average human's. Even if they were able to do it, they'd die.

[ChahikoDBZ]

Even if they could, due to them not having Ki, you wouldn't be able to see any aura or anything.

[Fox666]

Why not? It's not common to see Kuririn, Yamcha and the others with an Aura too, except when they power-up which the Androids doesn't require to.

[Titan]

I agree with FoX666, i see no reason why the androids or the humans could not use Kaio-ken.

[Kaboom]

Yeah, I don't think they'd be able to do it, at least not with their artificial Android energy. I get the feeling that there's an inherent trade-off of sorts at work; in exchange for your energy and stamina never decreasing, you're limited in what you can do in terms of amplification and such.

Think of it like the difference between a bow-and-arrow and a gun. The power of a bow-and-arrow's shot is going to change depending on how much effort and arm strength the user puts into it, and if you have the strength you might be able to over-stress the bow to make a faster and deadlier shot. But a gun will always fire the same type of bullet with the same amount of force as it's designed to.

[Strife1]

I think they'd be able to do it. If they were trained to do it right. I mean think about it...if Goku's leg was replaced with a robot leg he'd still be able to use it, just no for that body part, but if it were still an organic part, than the energy would be in that part too. In short, #17 & #18 should be able to do it, but that's it Android 16, 19, and 20 are completely mechanical.

[Kaboom]

Yeah, but the difference is that the new robotic leg wouldn't be the source of Goku's power. It's not just a matter of "how much of you is mechanical," it's about the nature of your power and where it comes from.

Not claiming a definitive answer, or anything, but that strikes me as the key issue.

[Strife1]

I mean it all really depends on how much robot is actually in 17 and 18. Since we don't have the models, no answer can be chosen for sure, but if their original energy source or Ki is gone from the experimentation, like they'd be dead without the android parts, then They definitely wouldn't be able to use it, but depending on the way that they're built really is what determines it. Just the fact that 18 can have a kid makes me believe that it's possible, but nothing to be noted as fact, for now.

[Rocketman]

They could, but it wouldn't do anything. There's no "hidden power" in an artificial reactor for Kaioken to draw out, and their natural ki is so low it's undetectable, so they might go from a power level of 2 to 4 (w/KKx2).

I mean it all really depends on how much robot is actually in 17 and 18. Since we don't have the models, no answer can be chosen for sure, but if their original energy source or Ki is gone from the experimentation, like they'd be dead without the android parts, then They definitely wouldn't be able to use it, but depending on the way that they're built really is what determines it. Just the fact that 18 can have a kid makes me believe that it's possible, but nothing to be noted as fact, for now.

Vaginae aren't power plants.

[Saiga]

I don't think the Kaio-ken does draw out "hidden power" (although that would make sense why Goku can use it up to x20 and nobody else can even do x2), so I don't really think that's a problem.

And yeah, should have clarified I was talking about the infinite energy models like 17 & 18. Since they're so human like, I thought it might work.

[Rocketman]

Making an artificial reactor suddenly jump to double the output is a good way to have a pile of scrap metal. Even if they could (which is kinda of like saying a car could use Kaioken), it's a terrible, terrible idea that would accomplish nothing.

[Saiga]

Making an artificial reactor suddenly jump to double the output is a good way to have a pile of scrap metal. Even if they could (which is kinda of like saying a car could use Kaioken), it's a terrible, terrible idea that would accomplish nothing.

Android 17 has to do something similar for his barrier technique, and that worked just fine.

[Kaboom]

Focusing and amplifying your ki in the form of attacks (or active defenses, in the case of a barrier) is probably pretty different from forcing your base ki level itself to increase with something like a Kaio-Ken. The more than 2x amplification we saw from Goku's Kamehameha against Raditz, for example, is surely a whole different bag from a Kaio-Ken x2.

[Saiga]

Focusing and amplifying your ki in the form of attacks (or active defenses, in the case of a barrier) is probably pretty different from forcing your base ki level itself to increase with something like a Kaio-Ken. The more than 2x amplification we saw from Goku's Kamehameha against Raditz, for example, is surely a whole different bag from a Kaio-Ken x2.

It's not too late to reply to this is it? I totally must have missed it when it was first posted.

Oh, I know it's different, but I still think the two are pretty similar. In fact, I think it's a pretty good comparison. I think the Kaio-ken is just an advanced form of the amplification necessary for the Kamehameha or Barrier ability - it's one thing to amplify your ki/substitute for a technique, but a lot more to apply that effect to your entire being. But I think being able to do the first implies that the second is possible in theory.

I think it'd work like this for the #17/#18 type Androids - it would have no effect on their energy supply (since that's already infinite and thus can't be doubled) but everything else (strength, speed, spelling ability) would be doubled.

[Hitiro]

I see this as one of two ways;

1. Kaioken is a technique which amplifies organic Ki, an artificial form probably wouldn't be effected by such a technique and as others have mentioned it would probably only effect their actual organic Ki. If it still exists that is.

or

2. Even if #17 or #18 could use Kaioken there would be no point, it would just kill them. The unfortunate part of having machines artificially produce an organic thing is that it has stricter boundaries. By this I mean Dr. Gero has designed them in such a way to be at their peak efficiency. What would happen if you add more power into a machine which should only hold so much? It will break. An example of this would be having a hair-dryer which can only take 12 volts, pushing any voltage higher than that is more than likely going to damage the hair-dryer and most likely hurt you in the process if you are too close to it. As humans we have the luxury of even if we exceed our maximum potential for a short time we can always recover from the damage if it isn't too extensive. Unfortunately machines can't recover from any damage that its built up like we do when we heal unless its repaired by human hands.

It would be interesting however if the Androids were fitted with some sort of Overclocking feature that drastically increases their power but causes problems with their artificial devices over constant use, though this would subsequently lead to whatever devices are embedded in them to have a shorter lifespan and possibly fail over time anyway even if this Overclocking feature isn't used that often.

[Fox666]

Oh, I know it's different, but I still think the two are pretty similar. In fact, I think it's a pretty good comparison. I think the Kaio-ken is just an advanced form of the amplification necessary for the Kamehameha or Barrier ability - it's one thing to amplify your ki/substitute for a technique, but a lot more to apply that effect to your entire being. But I think being able to do the first implies that the second is possible in theory.

I don't really think they are similar, in fact you can use the two in conjunction.

The Kamehameha is like pushing the accelerator very hard, making you go faster than usual. The Kaio-ken is like tuning up your car so it can go faster, which may damage the engine.

[mattymoron]

I don't think so. Cell, probably, since he seems to be just a genetically engineered organic creature. With 17 and 18, I suppose they COULD theoretically, since they're still partially human, but it would only multiply their insignificant human ki (from 5 to 10, etc.), and not have any noticeable effect on their "battle power" as derived from their infinite energy devices. Then again, since Goku and co. couldn't sense them AT ALL, they may not be able to generate ki at all anymore, which would prevent them from using any ki-based techniques like the Kaio-Ken. As for the completely synthetic androids - nah. No way. They don't have ki at all, so it'd be impossible for them to use such a technique.