Base Saiyans and Freeza

[TheMightyOzaru]

Please stop talking nonsense Undertaker. I'm getting really tired of your "My sources back me up!" When it's all based on nothing. It's your opinion that certain art choices determine the timeframe when in actuality there is nothing stating that as fact. If you want the actual timeframe You'll have to wait until we get the Daizenshuu 6 movie analyses back up on this site. If people want to believe Goku is like mid ROSAT, RESSJ, or FPSSJ in movie 8, they can . Also about the amplification, it might very well be addition, not multiplication.

[RandomGuy96]

There is a HUGE difference between Piccolo and Imperfect Cell, and I do have it as a multifold difference, as I see that as the most one-sided "fight" in the entire series... but it doesn't really HAVE to be multifold, as tanking is rather inconsistent in this series. You can have him a little less than twice as strong as Piccolo and it'd still make sense.

And didn't Daizenshuu 6 say that Movie 8 took place in the Cell Games waiting period? I really don't get why people try to overcomplicate things in regards to the movies. I mean the Daizenshuu's placements make sense, they don't contradict anything, and the ones that can't fit into the main timeline (Movies 2, 3, and 4 especially) are specifically noted to be impossible and therefore given an impossible place (e.g. they place the Lord Slug movie at a time where Goku would be on Namek).

[Bussani]

Well that's quite impressive, but since he didn't destroy the entire planet is it still around that powerful?

Probably not. Still pretty powerful, though.

[Kaboom]

And didn't Daizenshuu 6 say that Movie 8 took place in the Cell Games waiting period? I really don't get why people try to overcomplicate things in regards to the movies. I mean the Daizenshuu's placements make sense, they don't contradict anything, and the ones that can't fit into the main timeline (Movies 2, 3, and 4 especially) are specifically noted to be impossible and therefore given an impossible place (e.g. they place the Lord Slug movie at a time where Goku would be on Namek).

Almost, but not quite...

From the fact that Gohan becomes a Super Saiyan, it seems that this is an event from around the time of the final showdown with Cell. However, at the same time it's a mystery why Goku and the others are leisurely having a cherry blossom viewing when they should be stressed for the battle with Cell...

It still makes sure to insert a "this shouldn't really be happening" type of comment along with it. So while "soon before the Cell Games" could be considered the general time frame of the movie, obviously it's some sort of an alternate universe just like pretty much all the movies.

It's not just Goku and crew relaxing and enjoying life as normal, either. In the manga, the entire world was pretty much shut down after Cell made his announcement on TV, but in Movie 8, everything seems hunky-dory for society in general, with private school interviews, and lots more people besides the heroes picnicking among the cherry blossoms, and such.


...I'm not sure how this relates to the original 'Base Saiyans and Freeza' topic. Was it something about Goku's general power placement during the Cell Games/Movie 8 period...?

[Victorious]

It's just TOEI nonsense IMO. The base kids already fought evenly with Android 18 in the manga.

This is TOEI crap on par with Yamcha being way over Freeza

[Cardle grave]

Movie 8 happen just before Cell games started

It is meant to in between the episodes 176 and 177

[Draken]

Movie 8 happen just before Cell games started

It is meant to in between the episodes 176 and 177

I'm sorry, I think I misread your post. I think it's meant to say "I think Movie 8 happened just before the Cell games started. In my opinion, movies follow the anime, and it is meant to *be* in between episodes 176 and 177."

[Cardle grave]

No i am saying it happen when everybody is ready and finished then 2nd Rosat trip and such. Wouldn't make sense if it follow anime since nothing special happened in anime

[RandomGuy96]

Oh, and I'd just like to say: @TheDevil'sCorpse, page 12. You've successfully convinced me. While I don't see even something Toriyama wrote as 100% infallible, it's obviously worth more than baseless fan assumptions.

[Bussani]

It's just TOEI nonsense IMO. The base kids already fought evenly with Android 18 in the manga.

If by "fought evenly" you mean "got their asses handed to them in no time flat".

[RandomGuy96]

Just like how Nappa "fought evenly" with Goku.

[Undertaker]

No i am saying it happen when everybody is ready and finished then 2nd Rosat trip and such. Wouldn't make sense if it follow anime since nothing special happened in anime

You do realize the movie was released at that time probably because M8 Broly is just Cell Games FPSSJ tier? The movie was produced far before it's release. M4 was released between episodes 82 to 83 yet Goku is in his Gunyu Arc state. It's the same thing with M8. The Daizenshuu supports it. They are Pre Cell Games levels. Also, Trunks and Vegeta are 1st Post USSJs as that's the time line of the movie and its production.

[Undertaker]

Please stop talking nonsense Undertaker. I'm getting really tired of your "My sources back me up!" When it's all based on nothing. It's your opinion that certain art choices determine the timeframe when in actuality there is nothing stating that as fact. If you want the actual timeframe You'll have to wait until we get the Daizenshuu 6 movie analyses back up on this site. If people want to believe Goku is like mid ROSAT, RESSJ, or FPSSJ in movie 8, they can . Also about the amplification, it might very well be addition, not multiplication.

I never said it in this thread. Are you drugged? Also, the designs is actually fact because they already had Goku's full powr in the Manga but they only use his resting/warming up state. This is what you never debunked and you could not understand

[TheMightyOzaru]

Stop double posting!

[Kamiccolo9]

Please stop talking nonsense Undertaker. I'm getting really tired of your "My sources back me up!" When it's all based on nothing. It's your opinion that certain art choices determine the timeframe when in actuality there is nothing stating that as fact. If you want the actual timeframe You'll have to wait until we get the Daizenshuu 6 movie analyses back up on this site. If people want to believe Goku is like mid ROSAT, RESSJ, or FPSSJ in movie 8, they can . Also about the amplification, it might very well be addition, not multiplication.

I never said it in this thread. Are you drugged? Also, the designs is actually fact because they already had Goku's full powr in the Manga but they only use his resting/warming up state. This is what you never debunked and you could not understand

Well, even if you haven't said it in the thread so far, you've said it now. And it's not a fact. Facts are not debatable. Seeing as you have failed to convince anyone, it's quite obvious that your position is quite debatable. But I digress.

Stop double posting!

Also this. Please. It's annoying.

[Undertaker]

Please stop talking nonsense Undertaker. I'm getting really tired of your "My sources back me up!" When it's all based on nothing. It's your opinion that certain art choices determine the timeframe when in actuality there is nothing stating that as fact. If you want the actual timeframe You'll have to wait until we get the Daizenshuu 6 movie analyses back up on this site. If people want to believe Goku is like mid ROSAT, RESSJ, or FPSSJ in movie 8, they can . Also about the amplification, it might very well be addition, not multiplication.

I never said it in this thread. Are you drugged? Also, the designs is actually fact because they already had Goku's full powr in the Manga but they only use his resting/warming up state. This is what you never debunked and you could not understand

Well, even if you haven't said it in the thread so far, you've said it now. And it's not a fact. Facts are not debatable. Seeing as you have failed to convince anyone, it's quite obvious that your position is quite debatable. But I digress.

Stop double posting!

Also this. Please. It's annoying.

Just because you don't understand doesn't make it not a deadly evidence. They copied Goku's resting state to the movie and it's a fact he is protrayed like that. Goku's full power was revealed but they copied his resting state. Explain it. All the movies designs determine the power

[dbzfan7]

You really should move on. Nobody buy's what your saying. VegettoEX summed it up for me.

Also why are we off topic?

Anyways I have Base Goku caped at 100,000,000 in Battle of Gods.

[Kamiccolo9]

You really should move on. Nobody buy's what your saying. VegettoEX summed it up for me.

Also why are we off topic?

Anyways I have Base Goku caped at 100,000,000 in Battle of Gods.

I believe that after the Freeza arc the base power of the Saiyans didn't increase by much, hence the need to become accustomed to the SSJ form and perfecting their use of it.
And when they had their encounter with the cyborgs, they realized that only training wouldn't do them any more good, so they had to reach a form beyond SSJ.
If training made such huge changes in their base levels, the SSJ multiplier would apply too, thus smaller gains would make a larger difference.
But that doesn't seem to be the case.
So the Saiyans had to reach for new forms and new ways to accustom to the SSJ form to be able to progress.

So personally I don't believe that their base levels breached the 10,000,000 mark.

Yeah I believe that the largest gains in base post Freeza arc came from the ROSAT training.
Those tree years before the arrival of the Androids were spent pretty much getting used to the SSJ form and I don't believe there were much gains in base since they trained at Earth. Vegeta's training was pretty much attaining the SsJ form and getting used to it.

During the ROSAT training, though, they had much better training partners, and also, a full year of intense and uninterrupted training. Not only that, they achieved new forms of the SSj.

I'm working on a power level list based off this idea, and I'm really liking how it's working out so far.

[Draken]

3-10 million seems way too small a gap to play with from Namek to EoZ...

[Kamiccolo9]

3-10 million seems way too small a gap to play with from Namek to EoZ...

Not really. If you look at the numbers we are given, the only time the Saiyans make really large gaps are Goku at Kaio's, Goku and Vegeta in the Namek Arc, Vegeta in the 3 years before the Android Arc, and Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta in the ROSAT.
The first is explained by Kaio's training, which they never get again, the second by zenkais, which no longer happen, the third by gravity training, which we know isn't very efficient, and the fourth by combining gravity training, sparring, and extreme conditions, which never happens again.
Seeing as the Saiyans never do anything in base anyway, (besides Vegeta blowing up Pui-Pui, I guess,) nothing really indicates that they are any higher than that.
The gaps in fights end up small, but since power level gaps are pretty inconsistent, I don't have a problem with it.