"Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others".

[RandomGuy96]

You do know that none of these ambiguous statements you keep trying to bring up actually contradict the blunt and forward statement that Pure Buu is weaker than Super Buu, no matter what kind of insane and fallacious reasoning you try to use to twist it? Much like the manga, actually.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Does Daizenshuu 10 really say that? I don't remember that. You might be thinking of DBZ Son Goku Densetsu, which says Gotenks is "many times" (not "dozens of times") stronger than Goten/Trunks on their own.

GT Perfect Files Vol.2 says Gogeta (not Gotenks) is "many tens of times" stronger than a regular Super Saiyan 4. That's probably where the idea of Gotenks being described as "tens of times/dozens of times" comes from. Even I've messed that up before.

Yes you did.

Gotenks is described as "many tens of times" stronger than Goten/Trunks are on their own in the anime guide Son Goku Densetsu (this is basically the Japanese equivalent of saying they're "dozens of times" stronger, so it's a bit generic and vague). And Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta is described the same way in comparison to a regular Super Saiyan 4 in the GT Perfect Files Vol.2. So there's that.

And as for D10, does it say anything about Vegetto being many times stronger than Goku or Vegeta? Because I remember Fox666 saying that in this thread, and since he also mentioned the Gotenks line from the DBZ Son Goku Densetsu guide, I guess I messed things up.

[Darkprince410]

I'll go ahead and throw this comment in too

Refers to Gohan as having “fantastic power surpassing even Super Saiyan 3” following the Elder Kaioshin’s power-up. From (I think) DB Ultimate Battle Collection Round 02, an anime guidebook.

I know you'll just say "It's referring to Gotenks", but since it doesn't make that distinction and instead just mentions surpassing the form entirely, that would still put him above Goku.

[Zantetsuken]

I'll go ahead and throw this comment in too

Refers to Gohan as having “fantastic power surpassing even Super Saiyan 3” following the Elder Kaioshin’s power-up. From (I think) DB Ultimate Battle Collection Round 02, an anime guidebook.

I know you'll just say "It's referring to Gotenks", but since it doesn't make that distinction and instead just mentions surpassing the form entirely, that would still put him above Goku.

Well, you know what I'm going to say...

[Zantetsuken]

You do know that none of these ambiguous statements you keep trying to bring up actually contradict the blunt and forward statement that Pure Buu is weaker than Super Buu, no matter what kind of insane and fallacious reasoning you try to use to twist it? Much like the manga, actually.

You mean like Kaioshinn pointing out how Buu got stronger AFTER transforming into kidbuu. So it's either he got stronger in the transformation from Superbuu into Kidbuu, or from "Buffbuu" into Kidbuu - you pick, the end result is still the same.

[Draken]

Super Buu into Buff Buu= HOLY SHIT OMG HE'S GETTING EVEN STRONGER??!
Buff Buu into Kid Buu = HAHA SCRUB LOL WE CAN TAKE HIM NOW

Yea okay.

[VegettoEX]

Super Buu into Buff Buu= HOLY SHIT OMG HE'S GETTING EVEN STRONGER??!
Buff Buu into Kid Buu = HAHA SCRUB LOL WE CAN TAKE HIM NOW

Yea okay.

Not really a worthwhile post, here. C'mon, folks.

[TheGmGoken]

Super Buu into Buff Buu= HOLY SHIT OMG HE'S GETTING EVEN STRONGER??!
Buff Buu into Kid Buu = HAHA SCRUB LOL WE CAN TAKE HIM NOW

Yea okay.

Not really a worthwhile post, here. C'mon, folks.

Actually it's worthwhile and basically sums up Super Boo and Buff Boo compared to Kid Boo. We got statements proving Buff and Super Boo being superior. In the manga I honestly see none. We got an anime guidebook saying Gohan Mystic > SSJ3. We got Goku saying Super Boo > Goku and Vegeta. Don't see any Pure Boo feats at all.

[Zantetsuken]

Super Buu into Buff Buu= HOLY SHIT OMG HE'S GETTING EVEN STRONGER??!
Buff Buu into Kid Buu = HAHA SCRUB LOL WE CAN TAKE HIM NOW

Yea okay.

Not really a worthwhile post, here. C'mon, folks.

Actually it's worthwhile and basically sums up Super Boo and Buff Boo compared to Kid Boo. We got statements proving Buff and Super Boo being superior. In the manga I honestly see none. We got an anime guidebook saying Gohan Mystic > SSJ3. We got Goku saying Super Boo > Goku and Vegeta. Don't see any Pure Boo feats at all.

Except that I just pointed out that Kaioshinn was more scared of KidBuu than of "buffBuu" and SuperBuu. That throws a wrench in that logic. We also have the guiidebook saying Buu is stronger, SSJ3 is stronger and etc etc. So what is it?

[TheGmGoken]

Except that I just pointed out that Kaioshinn was more scared of KidBuu than of "buffBuu" and SuperBuu. That throws a wrench in that logic.

Kaioshin saw his other "Kai" be MURDERED by Pure Boo. I think Kaioshin would be more scared of Pure Boo than Birsu and Omega Shenron..

[Zantetsuken]

Except that I just pointed out that Kaioshinn was more scared of KidBuu than of "buffBuu" and SuperBuu. That throws a wrench in that logic.

Kaioshin saw his other "Kai" be MURDERED by Pure Boo. I think Kaioshin would be more scared of Pure Boo than Birsu and Omega Shenron..

Where and when was that ever implied? Ohhhh, fan theories.

[hleV]

If your theories are based on Kaioshin's "reactions", then it's no wonder how you seem to make so little sense to the rest of the world.

[TheGmGoken]

Except that I just pointed out that Kaioshinn was more scared of KidBuu than of "buffBuu" and SuperBuu. That throws a wrench in that logic.

Kaioshin saw his other "Kai" be MURDERED by Pure Boo. I think Kaioshin would be more scared of Pure Boo than Birsu and Omega Shenron..

Where and when was that ever implied? Ohhhh, fan theories.

The fact Kaioshin was scarred of anything with an "M" on his/her/it's head or chest. Also what's your deal with fan theories? Not everything in DB is flat out stated so we make theories that make some sort of sense. Not that big of an issue.

[RandomGuy96]

You do know that none of these ambiguous statements you keep trying to bring up actually contradict the blunt and forward statement that Pure Buu is weaker than Super Buu, no matter what kind of insane and fallacious reasoning you try to use to twist it? Much like the manga, actually.

You mean like Kaioshinn pointing out how Buu got stronger AFTER transforming into kidbuu. So it's either he got stronger in the transformation from Superbuu into Kidbuu, or from "Buffbuu" into Kidbuu - you pick, the end result is still the same.

Well then it's too bad that Kaioshin never said that. And that no one ever contradicted Goku, Buu, Gotenks, every single manga guidebook, etc. all saying that Super Buu is superior.

[Draken]

Except that I just pointed out that Kaioshinn was more scared of KidBuu than of "buffBuu" and SuperBuu. That throws a wrench in that logic.

Kaioshin saw his other "Kai" be MURDERED by Pure Boo. I think Kaioshin would be more scared of Pure Boo than Birsu and Omega Shenron..

Where and when was that ever implied? Ohhhh, fan theories.

So does that mean you make fun of your own theories? Last time I checked you're spouting fan theories too. "Statements saying that SSJ3 can't be suppressed are PROBABLY untrue." -> You. -> Fan theory. Yet here you are bashing fan theories, which last I checked, was pretty much everything in this sub-forum?

And uh, it was never IMPLIED, it was SHOWN, Kaioshin witnessed the murder of his fellow Kai's by Buu. And he thought that Pui Pui was strong. Roflmao.

[RandomGuy96]

If you're ignoring all feats and statements and going purely by Kaioshin's overly emotional reactions, then I suppose base Vegeta's stronger than SS2 Gohan, right?

[Darkprince410]

I'll go ahead and throw this comment in too

Refers to Gohan as having “fantastic power surpassing even Super Saiyan 3” following the Elder Kaioshin’s power-up. From (I think) DB Ultimate Battle Collection Round 02, an anime guidebook.

I know you'll just say "It's referring to Gotenks", but since it doesn't make that distinction and instead just mentions surpassing the form entirely, that would still put him above Goku.

Well, you know what I'm going to say...

Except it's not making that distinction. Given that it's saying Super Saiya-jin 3, that's meaning all beings to exhibit Super Saiya-jin 3, otherwise he'd not be surpassing it, now would he?

[Tyro]

Everyone can agree that Ultimate Gohan displayed his superiority to SS3 Gotenks when he put Evil Boo in his place whereas SS3 Gotenks was more or less on par with him. So all that quote is doing is solidifying that SS3 Goku is weaker than Gohan. But it's from an anime guide so I can understand if someone's dismissive of it as it doesn't pertain to the manga. It doesn't change anything for those of us who already knew that Ultimate Gohan > SS3 Goku.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Super Buu into Buff Buu= HOLY SHIT OMG HE'S GETTING EVEN STRONGER??!
Buff Buu into Kid Buu = HAHA SCRUB LOL WE CAN TAKE HIM NOW

Yea okay.

Not really a worthwhile post, here. C'mon, folks.

How is it not worthwhile? It sums up Goku's & Vegeta's reactions to Boo's forms (it's in an immature style, but still).

[VegettoEX]

I'm specifically talking about posting style here. Don't make things worse with absurdly childish posts. These discussions are constantly on thin-ice enough as it is. I have absolutely no desire to keep tossing out account warnings and temporary bans, but if that's what's essentially being asked of me, I guess I can comply. I'd rather not, though, so... please stop?