Are rough Romaji spellings "True To The Original"

[Theophrastus]

I just use the Simmons' translated names and stick to those, the rest either feel too weaboo (Torankusu? come on) or cheesy corny crap (FUNimation dubnames).

...Huh? I get not liking them, but how are the Funimation dub names cheesy or corny? The vast majority of the names in the Funi dub are either identical to the intent of the Japanese, or a tweaking to make the pun not a pun anymore (in the case of characters like the Ginyu Force)...and the occasional oddity like "Master Roshi", "Ti-en Shinhan", and "Hero", admittedly.

As far as the discussion on the pronunciation of Mr. Satan: Sah-tan is the default Japanese pronunciation of the name "Satan". It still refers directly to the biblical Satan despite the pronunciation being different from the standard English one.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/one-piece/ep ... ons-658673

There's literally a sub-plot in One Piece where a village of people are trying to summon Satan, Brook appears by coincidence, and they think he's Satan. The consistently call him "Sah-tan-sama".

[TripleRach]

The original question here is pretty loaded. From a technical standpoint, yes, strict romaji is as close as you can get to the original spellings (that is, the Japanese text) without actually being the original spellings. It's the reason that fansites often include romaji alongside Japanese text and a translation.

And I'm sure there are people who believe that is the best way to go about it, even if that belief is not the most popular one. You can express your disagreements and debate preferences and etymology. I love these kind of discussions, personally. Just as long as we're not attacking anyone for their preferences, because the existence of this thread sort of feels that way.

I mean, as long as someone isn't trying to seriously call Vegeta "Bananafudge" or something.

I can give you a similar concrete historical example. For example, in the USA, they named the famous portuguese explorer Fernão de Magalhães as "Ferdinand Magellan". Probably because its easier to pronounce that way.

Well, this painting implies "Ferdinand Magellan" predates the existence of the US. But it's most likely his English name in general, and some other languages seem to have similar names for him. I never realized his original Portuguese name was different though. At least that practice of localizing real people's names seems to have died out over the years.

[Gaffer Tape]

RE: theophrastus

I'm aware of that. But it still doesn't change the fact that, in this case, that is the character's name. In situations where they are actually referring to the figure or someone or something like him, like Dai Satan in Kyouryuu Sentai Zyuranger, I'm a bit more open to Anglicizing it. Here... well, I'm not against people Say-tanizing it, nor am I against FUNimation for pronouncing it that way. I would assume any dubbing studio would. I understand and support the reasoning people have behind doing so.

But it's still not how he pronounces his name.

[rereboy]

Well, this painting implies "Ferdinand Magellan" predates the existence of the US. But it's most likely his English name in general, and some other languages seem to have similar names for him. I never realized his original Portuguese name was different though. At least that practice of localizing real people's names seems to have died out over the years.

The USA calls him that because that's how he ended up being refereed to in the english language. I didn't mean that that way of naming him was created specifically by the USA.

Btw, the fact that he ended up being refereed to as that name in english is more impactful than one might think at first. Several things were named after him. For example, there are two entire galaxies named after him, called the Magellanic Clouds (or Nubeculae Magellani). Notice how, instead of his actual name, the galaxies named after him are based on his english adaptation of his name. There is also a penguin named after the english adaptation of his name (Magellanic penguin (Spheniscus magellanicus)) and even craters on the moon and on mars with the same origin in their name.

All these things and more, should have been named after Magalhães, not Magellan, but so is history.

[Adamant]

At least that practice of localizing real people's names seems to have died out over the years.

It's still done with royalty.

[dbboxkaifan]

It's also actually spelt Weeaboo, not Weaboo.

Well, sorry I missed an 'e' out of it.

how are the Funimation dub names cheesy or corny

The way they're spelt and pronounced.

Friеza (frai-zah but for dubbies they at least call him properly by his name - Freeza)
Hеrcule (thanks AB Groupe)
Tîеn (*sigh*)
Chiatzu (the original sounds much better off the tongue - Chaozu)
Fasha (what was the problem with Ceripa? *smh*)
Ox King (always known him as Guymao so it's strange hearing a dub call 'em "Ox King")
Kоrin (they didn't need to make any changes to his name)

Then there's also:
- Goku's level power 9000 (should be 8000)
- Pronouncing 'Saiyan' incorrectly
Among other issues.

All of this for FUNimation dub fans is rather normal so they don't see anything wrong with it.

[Kamiccolo9]

The way they're spelt and pronounced.

Friеza (frai-zah but for dubbies they at least call him properly by his name - Freeza)

All of this for FUNimation dub fans is rather normal so they don't see anything wrong with it.

There are plenty of words that use "ie" to make the "ee" sound. Like believe. I seriously don't see why so many people have a problem with this.

[Gyt Kaliba]

For all the crap a lot of FUNi's names get, I've never seen the issue where they aren't at least recognizable as to whom they mean, even for subtitle fans - most of them, anyway. Chiaotzu seems pretty easy to figure out is Chaozu. Korin to Karin seems like a pretty easy jump to make. Fr-i-eza to Freeza seems like the easiest one - it's still said exactly the same way regardless of it's spelling, and I don't think I've come across any other characters in Dragon Ball or otherwise with a name like that, so...

Again, this is just with most of the names though. Something like Mr. Satan to Her-cule, or Tenshinhan to Ti-en (ignoring the 'Ti-en Shinhan' thing anyway), those would be pretty hard to figure out without having seen the dub. I should also add that I'm not really defending the name changes per say; I'm just saying that I never have, and never will, understand why there's this level of dissent outside of the view that changes shouldn't be made at all.

[Herms]

In fact, Chiaotzu is named directly after the Chinese Mandarin name for potstickers (gyouza in Japanese), so the Funi spelling is the one that gets the actual intent of the name across, while the direct Romanization "Chaozu" is equivalent to calling Trunks "Torankusu".

(Not that this stops me from using "Chaozu" out of sheer, unrelenting laziness. "Jiaozi" is also a valid spelling; it's the Pinyin spelling, while "Chiaotzu" is the older Wades-Giles" spelling. It's the same thing as "Beijing" vs "Peiking".)

[jda95]

For all the crap a lot of FUNi's names get, I've never seen the issue where they aren't at least recognizable as to whom they mean, even for subtitle fans - most of them, anyway. Chiaotzu seems pretty easy to figure out is Chaozu. Karin to Karin seems like a pretty easy jump to make. Fr-i-eza to Freeza seems like the easiest one - it's still said exactly the same way regardless of it's spelling, and I don't think I've come across any other characters in Dragon Ball or otherwise with a name like that, so...

Again, this is just with most of the names though. Something like Mr. Satan to Her-cule, or Tenshinhan to Ti-en (ignoring the 'Ti-en Shinhan' thing anyway), those would be pretty hard to figure out without having seen the dub. I should also add that I'm not really defending the name changes per say; I'm just saying that I never have, and never will, understand why there's this level of dissent outside of the view that changes shouldn't be made at all.

Chiaotzu always bothered me because it seemed to be a mix of the Japanese Chaozu and Chinese Jiaozi, when either of them on its own would have been simpler than the strange mishmash Chiaotzu. And a similar principle with T.ien Shinhan (not that the Shinhan part was used frequently at all).... It's so close to his original name that the change just doesn't logically do anything of value.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Chiaotzu always bothered me because it seemed to be a mix of the Japanese Chaozu and Chinese Jiaozi, when either of them on its own would have been simpler than the strange mishmash Chiaotzu. And a similar principle with T.ien Shinhan (not that the Shinhan part was used frequently at all).... It's so close to his original name that the change just doesn't logically do anything of value.

The Ti-en Shinhan one has always kind of boggled my mind too, yeah. As you said, it's not like they use it a lot - it was pretty much reserved for original Dragon Ball, and may have popped up in some video games (and I want to say it had a mention in Kai?), but for the most part it's not like they've ever tried to re-enforce that he now has a last name or anything. And it's not like they tried to give everyone else last names all of a sudden in original DB (Bulma aside I mean; they didn't suddenly start calling Yamcha 'Yamcha Wolferson' or anything). The only thing I can think of is maybe it was some kind of flap issue, since maybe earlier on, a lot more characters called him 'Tenshinhan' rather than 'Ten' like Chaozu does all the time, but again, I don't think they had an issue with filling those flaps in Z, so...

[The Tori-bot]

But I'd never make fun of someone or invalidate someone for using them.

I would. General disclaimer: if you type "Torankusu" or "Seru" or indeed "Doramu" unironically I will make fun of you. Well, not to your e-face, because I'm a dirty coward and it would be rude, but I will roll my eyes forcefully in the direction of your post and maybe slip a tiny sliver of snark your way. Luckily, in my travels I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually do so (unless you count that weird hilarious fandub from 2009ish, DBZRemixed or whatever; if you're a curious sort scroll up to the forum's search bar and strap yourself in for a fun ride). Though I must say, Gaffer Tape's argument is the most compelling one I've seen in their favour. I kinda feel like I get it now.

[Saiga]

In fact, Chiaotzu is named directly after the Chinese Mandarin name for potstickers (gyouza in Japanese), so the Funi spelling is the one that gets the actual intent of the name across, while the direct Romanization "Chaozu" is equivalent to calling Trunks "Torankusu".

(Not that this stops me from using "Chaozu" out of sheer, unrelenting laziness. "Jiaozi" is also a valid spelling; it's the Pinyin spelling, while "Chiaotzu" is the older Wades-Giles" spelling. It's the same thing as "Beijing" vs "Peiking".)

Shit, really? And I switched to Chaozu because I thought that Chiaotzu was the Torankusu equivalent!

[Puto]

In fact, Chiaotzu is named directly after the Chinese Mandarin name for potstickers (gyouza in Japanese), so the Funi spelling is the one that gets the actual intent of the name across, while the direct Romanization "Chaozu" is equivalent to calling Trunks "Torankusu".

(Not that this stops me from using "Chaozu" out of sheer, unrelenting laziness. "Jiaozi" is also a valid spelling; it's the Pinyin spelling, while "Chiaotzu" is the older Wades-Giles" spelling. It's the same thing as "Beijing" vs "Peiking".)

This. I never did understand why Simmons used Shen Long and Yi Xing Long and Si Xing Qiu and every other Chinese name properly, yet randomly kept 'Chaozu' in romaji instead of adapting it to Jiaozi or Chiaotzu.

Also on that note, 'Yamucha' should really be 'Yumcha' too, honestly.

[Dogasu]

For me, at least, romanization is more an art than a science. It shouldn't just be people just robotically substituting every kana character with the Hepburn equivalent and calling it a day; not taking the effort to consider the context or the intention of what's being romanized just strikes me as lazy. Torankusu or Seru aren't wrong, of course, but come on.

(And the reason I use "Dogasu" instead of "Dogas" for my screenname is because the former was thought up before I knew better and by the time I figured out it should be "Dogas" it was already too late. Changing it *now* after a decade and a half would just be weird)

[UltimateHammerBro]

(unless you count that weird hilarious fandub from 2009ish, DBZRemixed or whatever; if you're a curious sort scroll up to the forum's search bar and strap yourself in for a fun ride).

I have done so, and it has been a fun ride indeed
I'd have liked to see the original videos though. It would have been fun.

[TheAldella]

I like japanese dbz because everyone calls Mr. Satan Mr. Satin. That is all.


No, but in reality, there are tons of cases in which I could see one using the romanization just...sounds better. Beerus being an example. I have an undying resentment of the fan translation Bills. I also like a lot of Naruto romanizations or non-translated terms because they just sound really "cold blooded" to me. Shinra Tensei being one of them.
Boo over Buu is one I just can't seem to like though. The "uu" just makes the Ultimate Gohan absorbed state seem way cooler.

[EmmaWinters]

Also on that note, 'Yamucha' should really be 'Yumcha' too, honestly.

Correct, just like Puar should be Pu'erh.
It always bothered me that the whole Pu'erh/Oolong thing was lost in the dub.

[Gaffer Tape]

Beerus isn't a straight Romanization, though. It's an adaptation, just like Bills... well, in the sense that it is an adaptation. Beerus is just an informed one, while Bills is not. But since the Japanese language has no stand-alone consonants outside of "n", Beerus can't be a straight Romanization because of the "s" on the end. Anyway, long story short, the Romanization is Birusu. Beerus Anglicizes that while attempting to maintain both the "beer" and "virus" puns.

[TheAldella]

Beerus isn't a straight Romanization, though. It's an adaptation, just like Bills... well, in the sense that it is an adaptation. Beerus is just an informed one, while Bills is not. But since the Japanese language has no stand-alone consonants outside of "n", Beerus can't be a straight Romanization because of the "s" on the end. Anyway, long story short, the Romanization is Birusu. Beerus Anglicizes that while attempting to maintain both the "beer" and "virus" puns.

Ah, I see! I still heavily prefer that to Bills.