Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[hleV]

No, we're supposed to recognize it as a problem that the fan manga has, but also recognize that its a problem that its pretty much unavoidable due to it being a fan manga and thus not really the fault of the people doing it.

Why would we care? Does this make DBM any less shitty?

[rereboy]

No, we're supposed to recognize it as a problem that the fan manga has, but also recognize that its a problem that its pretty much unavoidable due to it being a fan manga and thus not really the fault of the people doing it.

Why would we care? Does this make DBM any less shitty?

Let me see, why should we care that we treat things fairly? Well, to be honest, it kind of answers itself: because its fair. You can judge something fairly and still not like it. Being fair doesn't stop you from disliking something, it only stops you from disliking something based on unfair preconceptions.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Well...that's definitely unnerving. It's seemingly disturbing to Boo too, and that's saying a lot.

As for all this debate on what's acceptable or not in terms of quality for a fan comic, you know what it all comes down to? If you don't like it...you don't have to read it. Simple as that. There are tons of fanfiction and fan comics that don't interest me, so I just don't read them, rather than read them and then make it a point to constantly complain about them. And that's all that's been going on lately it seems, complaints. Not criticism. Complaints. Is such a thing really that constructive or the best use of your time?

[mAcChaos]

Am I the only one confused how Buu keeps just flying through stuff like a ghost.

[BlazingBarrrager]

I think Mr. Popo lent XXI his powers. :O

[rereboy]

Am I the only one confused how Buu keeps just flying through stuff like a ghost.

He seems to have developed a technique that allows him to go through solid objects. Or its an ability of someone he absorbed.

[dbzfan7]

Ok I seem to have missed that.

So we're supposed to overlook it's biggest short comings because of time constraint. That's the biggest load of bullshit.

No, we're supposed to recognize it as a problem that the fan manga has, but also recognize that its a problem that its pretty much unavoidable due to it being a fan manga and thus not really the fault of the people doing it.

In short, we are supposed to recognize that DBM is limited by its nature and, as such, obviously not have the same standards of demands that we have for works that aren't fan-made.

In regards to criticism, since the main point of criticism is to help things improve, repeated criticism regarding this aspect is pointless since its pretty much unavoidable. Instead of criticism, it becomes more like bashing it rather than criticizing it... which, by now, is what I'm convinced you are doing, because there's no other justification to your excessively long posts filled with examples and metaphors and the excessive use of foul language to colorfully illustrate what you are saying... If you were merely criticizing it, there would be no need to do that.

I don't agree it's unavoidable. I believe the specials could be planned out to cover story. Maybe have one special take place during a point in the tournaments time frame. I think the other artist they get for down time could help with this instead of just random unneeded stories like the second Bojack one and Future Gohan atrocity. Sure the quality wouldn't be as good as Asura, but I think story should take priority over top notch artwork. Maybe have the next special cover what some other people are doing in the timeframe of this break period. I don't buy that it's impossible to fit in story.

Other fan made projects more than likely have issues personal life issues such as jobs, school, etc., yet I've only heard DBM getting a pass. I'm sure guys like the Absalon person, Teamfourstar, Malik, and the people I work with all have life issues that mess with their schedules and products, but I'll never give a pass to the final result of what's put out as that is what was accepted. I'll try to understand the why something went wrong, but I still can't give a pass just cause of behind the scenes problems.

I agree my harping is starting to become bashing, however the points don't really change because it's been years and half a comic later, and we still haven't got an ongoing plot. We have some conflicts that arise and then go away, but we have no goal beyond win the tournament, no real main characters, just a set up and stuff happening. I'll quit bashing in the same point now as it is getting tiring since I doubt anything will really be done.

I think I'll take my leave though as honestly if I don't have much nice to say, I probably shouldn't be here. Considering I guess kinda my hopes for something special are fruitless beyond looking at pretty pictures which do not satisfy me. I'll stick to the fan comics with not quite as good art, but an actual storyline like DBNA, DBEX (Also worked on by Asura), DBS (Both), HWTBASH, Kabooms rewrite of GT, and other things I have more positive things to say than negative.

[rereboy]

I do agree that the specials could help with this and be better overall. The DBM team seems to treat them as unimportant stuff. If they had another approach to it, it could be better. I would definitely prefer better specials that added more depth and interactions to the main story than just boring fighting stories. However, the specials are short, so the problem of constraints would still be there but, overall, it could help DBM be better.

[dbzfan7]

I do agree that the specials could help with this and be better overall. The DBM team seems to treat them as unimportant stuff. If they had another approach to it, it could be better. I would definitely prefer better specials that added more depth and interactions to the main story than just boring fighting stories. However, the specials are short, so the problem of constraints would still be there but, overall, it could help DBM be better.

I think even if they weren't drawn as well as Asura in the main series or were a bit disappointing, I'd be happy if the specials covered not advancing the tournament plot, but fleshing out a plot we aren't seeing in the main series. That way we can get excited for when the main series goes full plot, while the specials do all the plot building or cover an ongoing plan behind the scenes. I think that'd be miles better than back story plots that barely add anything.

[Tzigi]

I don't agree it's unavoidable. I believe the specials could be planned out to cover story.

And that's the whole problem. They can't be planned at all - it's not like Salagir can force any artist to finish a story. He never knows if the artist will draw a single page and vanish or present him with a perfect chapter in no time at all. Sometimes even an artist who did one special chapter quick, vanishes later without finishing the second one they wanted to do. So how do you imagine, the specials could be planned to cover story?

I will give you an example: there is a French DB fanmanga called Dragon ball Dimensions - it's an exercise in what-ifs and parallel universes and that's why it has two versions (Dimensions A and Dimensions B respectively). It is written by one of Salagir's collaborators - Loïc Solaris (he writes the DBM novelization) and drawn by many artists - each taking several pages of the story. The idea of Dimensions is to show possible ramifications of disparate changes in the Buu Saga (Gohan gets possessed instead of Vegeta for example) and so the two versions follow quite carefully one another:

Spoiler:

As you can see, the versions are drawn by different artists. And, as I wrote, the story is one whole - or rather two parallell wholes that were envisaged as being published simultaneously. But the artist for one part of the story took much, much longer to finish his pages and so the version B had to wait for his pages and now A is 50 pages ahead of B.

It was quite easy in Dimensions - there are two versions and it has no set release schedule. But still it lessened the enjoyment of the project since only one version was available. Now let's imagine this with DBM - a fanmanga that has a story with very careful planning (yes, the story of DBM is extremely well planned - it simply takes long to unravel), a team of about 100 people to manage it and an actual schedule. Let's say that we're now not in 2015 but in 2013. Gogeta Jr has just left the project and Salagir wants to give the story to many artists (what actually happened with Beta, Zettoshonen, Taopaipai and finally Asura drawing the main plot). The last chapter done by Gogeta Jr was the 28th. Since we decide to make the specials part of the main story, we end up with chapters 29, 30, 31, 32, 33 and so on. Let's say that Salagir assigns the 29th to somebody whom he knew personally and could make sure that they finished it. The chapters 30-33 are given to 4 different people. The 32 is done first (maybe the artist was so fast or maybe they had nothing else to do). The 30th begins incoming and manages to finish before the end of 29 so the translators have enough time to prepare the 30-odd language versions of those pages. Then comes chapter 33. But the 31 isn't done and the artist keeps saying: I just need to ink this. Finally chapter 30 is drawing to a close. What should Salagir do now? Publish something completely different? But what - since we forgo the "standard" special chapters? Skip a chapter (publishing 32) and later retrace his steps (publishing 31) when people already know who lives and who has won? Get someone to draw 31 as fast as possible without taking the drawings' quality into account so as to manage to publish it (and so offend the artist who may yet manage to send his chapter)? Falling behind on schedule isn't an option for Salagir and that's a fact I have heard him state several times.

Special chapters that can be included almost anywhere in the plot are a great solution - this way Salagir doesn't have to worry about not having the new pages ready - there are always some. And mind you: there is no way Salagir can predict which artist will be fast and who will abandon his work - sometimes people do one chapter quickly and then take litterally years to complete a second one.

I'll stick to the fan comics with not quite as good art, but an actual storyline like DBNA, DBEX (Also worked on by Asura), DBS (Both), HWTBASH, Kabooms rewrite of GT, and other things I have more positive things to say than negative.

I have tried all of those and, since you are comparing those to DBM so bluntly now, I will say this: of all those I only like GTR and HWTBASH. All the others (with DBNA receiving a special mention for stupid, AF-esque plot and an author who takes criticism way worse then Salagir - and surely will quote me on this) make me sad about the lack of brains in this part of DB fandom that creates such works. But I try not to enter the other tent* and rarely (and only then in such situations as this) do I speak about my intense dislike of those "stories". It's not like I post on every single page of the DBNA thread saying how I hate this comic. And yet I do - but, since the mods here prefer that this forum stay a positive place, I rarely voice my discontent. And I wish people on the DBM thread did the same.

____
* I don't know if this joke/saying exists also in English but I find it so appropriate for this situation (what follows is my feeble attempt to render it in English): "A man was stranded on a desert island. He was happy all throught his life there. Why? Because he had two tents: one which he liked entering, the other which he disliked entering. Don't enter the other tent."

[dbzfan7]

I don't agree it's unavoidable. I believe the specials could be planned out to cover story.

And that's the whole problem. They can't be planned at all - it's not like Salagir can force any artist to finish a story. He never knows if the artist will draw a single page and vanish or present him with a perfect chapter in no time at all. Sometimes even an artist who did one special chapter quick, vanishes later without finishing the second one they wanted to do. So how do you imagine, the specials could be planned to cover story?

I will give you an example: there is a French DB fanmanga called Dragon ball Dimensions - it's an exercise in what-ifs and parallel universes and that's why it has two versions (Dimensions A and Dimensions B respectively). It is written by one of Salagir's collaborators - Loïc Solaris (he writes the DBM novelization) and drawn by many artists - each taking several pages of the story. The idea of Dimensions is to show possible ramifications of disparate changes in the Buu Saga (Gohan gets possessed instead of Vegeta for example) and so the two versions follow quite carefully one another:

Spoiler:

As you can see, the versions are drawn by different artists. And, as I wrote, the story is one whole - or rather two parallell wholes that were envisaged as being published simultaneously. But the artist for one part of the story took much, much longer to finish his pages and so the version B had to wait for his pages and now A is 50 pages ahead of B.

It was quite easy in Dimensions - there are two versions and it has no set release schedule. But still it lessened the enjoyment of the project since only one version was available. Now let's imagine this with DBM - a fanmanga that has a story with very careful planning (yes, the story of DBM is extremely well planned - it simply takes long to unravel), a team of about 100 people to manage it and an actual schedule. Let's say that we're now not in 2015 but in 2013. Gogeta Jr has just left the project and Salagir wants to give the story to many artists (what actually happened with Beta, Zettoshonen, Taopaipai and finally Asura drawing the main plot). The last chapter done by Gogeta Jr was the 28th. Since we decide to make the specials part of the main story, we end up with chapters 29, 30, 31, 32, 33 and so on. Let's say that Salagir assigns the 29th to somebody whom he knew personally and could make sure that they finished it. The chapters 30-33 are given to 4 different people. The 32 is done first (maybe the artist was so fast or maybe they had nothing else to do). The 30th begins incoming and manages to finish before the end of 29 so the translators have enough time to prepare the 30-odd language versions of those pages. Then comes chapter 33. But the 31 isn't done and the artist keeps saying: I just need to ink this. Finally chapter 30 is drawing to a close. What should Salagir do now? Publish something completely different? But what - since we forgo the "standard" special chapters? Skip a chapter (publishing 32) and later retrace his steps (publishing 31) when people already know who lives and who has won? Get someone to draw 31 as fast as possible without taking the drawings' quality into account so as to manage to publish it (and so offend the artist who may yet manage to send his chapter)? Falling behind on schedule isn't an option for Salagir and that's a fact I have heard him state several times.

Special chapters that can be included almost anywhere in the plot are a great solution - this way Salagir doesn't have to worry about not having the new pages ready - there are always some. And mind you: there is no way Salagir can predict which artist will be fast and who will abandon his work - sometimes people do one chapter quickly and then take litterally years to complete a second one.

I'll stick to the fan comics with not quite as good art, but an actual storyline like DBNA, DBEX (Also worked on by Asura), DBS (Both), HWTBASH, Kabooms rewrite of GT, and other things I have more positive things to say than negative.

I have tried all of those and, since you are comparing those to DBM so bluntly now, I will say this: of all those I only like GTR and HWTBASH. All the others (with DBNA receiving a special mention for stupid, AF-esque plot and an author who takes criticism way worse then Salagir - and surely will quote me on this) make me sad about the lack of brains in this part of DB fandom that creates such works. But I try not to enter the other tent* and rarely (and only then in such situations as this) do I speak about my intense dislike of those "stories". It's not like I post on every single page of the DBNA thread saying how I hate this comic. And yet I do - but, since the mods here prefer that this forum stay a positive place, I rarely voice my discontent. And I wish people on the DBM thread did the same.

____
* I don't know if this joke/saying exists also in English but I find it so appropriate for this situation (what follows is my feeble attempt to render it in English): "A man was stranded on a desert island. He was happy all throught his life there. Why? Because he had two tents: one which he liked entering, the other which he disliked entering. Don't enter the other tent."

I find that hard to believe when a special chapter always comes out with with someone new doing it. Just have a script planned out long beforehand and hand it over to someone who agree's to handle it. If a special chapter can somehow manage to happen every 24 pages, I'm sure a plot filled one relevant to supporting the main story can be manageable. Am I missing that these specials are already done long before and kept under wraps til the break? I'd think they're worked on while the main series is running at the latest. I'm probably somewhat clueless here, but even if it truly is impossible somehow, then DBM just forever has a drawback that makes it unlikable to me and some others personally as poor story telling.

Very careful planing story...yeah you really lost me there. It's not careful at all. It's sloppy and barely existent. There's hints, and then there's filler back stories which show off the incompetence of the writing staff. Future Gohan special being the absolute definition of poor writing, with the Saiyan specials coming at a close second. Then there's main story elements that guys like Randomguy point out more than I do. The "story" is fanservice with a few hints to something happening, which you won't see for probably another year or 2. I applaud the art style and some ideas, but really the only reason people there's any success is because of the art and fan service, not the story telling.

I see that then see Super Cold, InvinciBroly, dumbass Babidi, Mary Hanassia, Namek stretch, Potara nonsense, random power up like any other stereotypical fan manga, and several others I'm sure Random has pointed out but I forget.

[rereboy]

I find that hard to believe when a special chapter always comes out with with someone new doing it. Just have a script planned out long beforehand and hand it over to someone who agree's to handle it. If a special chapter can somehow manage to happen every 24 pages, I'm sure a plot filled one relevant to supporting the main story can be manageable. Am I missing that these specials are already done long before and kept under wraps til the break? I'd think they're worked on while the main series is running at the latest.

They have special chapters already finished and others being done. When a main chapter finishes that just release one special chapter that is already done. If they have more than one special chapter done, they choose the one that they rather release at that moment. If they had no special chapter, they would probably go on hiatus but so far they have managed to always have at least one special chapter ready to be released.

Since the special chapters don't really follow an order, they have great flexibility with them.

As for the rest of your post, its just bashing again. Its evident just from the disposition of the fights in the tournament that there's good planning in DBM. You just once again resort to bashing instead of criticizing, which results in exaggerated statements "it's sloppy and barely existent".

[dbzfan7]

I find that hard to believe when a special chapter always comes out with with someone new doing it. Just have a script planned out long beforehand and hand it over to someone who agree's to handle it. If a special chapter can somehow manage to happen every 24 pages, I'm sure a plot filled one relevant to supporting the main story can be manageable. Am I missing that these specials are already done long before and kept under wraps til the break? I'd think they're worked on while the main series is running at the latest.

Very careful planing story...yeah you really lost me there. It's not careful at all. It's sloppy and barely existent. There's hints, and then there's filler back stories which show off the incompetence of the writing staff. Future Gohan special being the absolute definition of poor writing, with the Saiyan specials coming at a close second. Then there's main story elements that guys like Randomguy point out more than I do. The "story" is fanservice with a few hints to something happening, which you won't see for probably another year or 2. I applaud the art style and some ideas, but really the only reason people there's any success is because of the art and fan service, not the story telling.

I see that then see Super Cold, InvinciBroly, dumbass Babidi, Mary Hanassia, Namek stretch, Potara nonsense, random power up like any other stereotypical fan manga, and several others I'm sure Random has pointed out but I forget.

They have special chapters already finished and others being done. When a main chapter finishes that just release one special chapter that is already done. If they have more than one special chapter done, they choose the one that they rather release at that moment. If they had no special chapter, they would probably go on hiatus but so far they have managed to always have at least one special chapter ready to be released.

Since the special chapters don't really follow an order, they have great flexibility with them.

I did say I was somewhat clueless on the process of Specials. I find it weird a whole special can be managed to be made ready for the 24 page hiatus, but one with actual plot relevance can't be made ready. Like it doesn't even have to be the very next special...any special...for at least one break....but it's not.

Personally Kaiserneko summed up everything

Because the ONLY THING THAT WAS EVER GOOD ABOUT THIS FAN-MANGA WAS THE ART.

The fights have been lame, uncreative, and poorly paced.

The story was just one giant setup for these poorly done fights.

Without the art, it just becomes... completely uninspired garbage.

This fan-comic sucks. It captures none of the spirit of DragonBall and it's art was the only thing that made it any good, even if the angles were totally boring and the plot terrible.

[rereboy]

I did say I was somewhat clueless on the process of Specials. I find it weird a whole special can be managed to be made ready for the 24 page hiatus, but one with actual plot relevance can't be made ready. Like it doesn't even have to be the very next special...any special...for at least one break....but it's not.

What was stated was that it would be significantly harder to do so while keeping the same schedule, if not impossible. And frankly, that's self evident. If they don't have to worry about the order of the specials, the logistics become much easier. But, like I said, I do agree that it could have made DBM better.

Personally Kaiserneko summed up everything

Because the ONLY THING THAT WAS EVER GOOD ABOUT THIS FAN-MANGA WAS THE ART.

The fights have been lame, uncreative, and poorly paced.

The story was just one giant setup for these poorly done fights.

Without the art, it just becomes... completely uninspired garbage.

This fan-comic sucks. It captures none of the spirit of DragonBall and it's art was the only thing that made it any good, even if the angles were totally boring and the plot terrible.

And personally, no matter how much I like Abridged, I find that comment of Kaiserneko completely exaggerated and inaccurate. Especially since, if I assume those statements as true, then, going by that classification, almost all of other DB fan mangas out there are absolute crap.

[dbzfan7]

I did say I was somewhat clueless on the process of Specials. I find it weird a whole special can be managed to be made ready for the 24 page hiatus, but one with actual plot relevance can't be made ready. Like it doesn't even have to be the very next special...any special...for at least one break....but it's not.

What was stated was that it would be significantly harder to do so while keeping the same schedule, if not impossible. And frankly, that's self evident. If they don't have to worry about the order of the specials, the logistics become much easier. But, like I said, I do agree that it could have made DBM better.

Personally Kaiserneko summed up everything

Because the ONLY THING THAT WAS EVER GOOD ABOUT THIS FAN-MANGA WAS THE ART.

The fights have been lame, uncreative, and poorly paced.

The story was just one giant setup for these poorly done fights.

Without the art, it just becomes... completely uninspired garbage.

This fan-comic sucks. It captures none of the spirit of DragonBall and it's art was the only thing that made it any good, even if the angles were totally boring and the plot terrible.

And personally, no matter how much I like Abridged, I find that comment of Kaiserneko completely exaggerated and inaccurate. Especially since, if I assume those statements as true, then, going by that classification, almost all of other DB fan mangas out there are absolute crap.

Well honestly then they let their schedule get in the way of doing something special IMO. I think if they want to do something good they need to plan a lot better, or even take a hiatus to set up meaningful set ups. As of now everything is pretty much IMO what Kaiser said.

I disagree. We'd have to ask, but I'm sure he may have some that would fit his criteria of being good. I disagree with the fights all being lame, but a lot of them are. Poorly paced I'd agree with too. Hell looking back when fishing the comment, a lot of people here agree that it's really the art that keeps anything going.They also seem to not comment in this spot much no more and I can see why.

[rereboy]

I don't get you... First you say that there's a few things keeping DBM from being special, and then you agree with what Kaiserneko said about the comic not anything good besides the art. How could it become special with more development if there's nothing good besides the art?

Also, I actually laughed with your conclusion regarding why some people don't comment here anymore. Honestly, could that conclusion be any more biased? How about some people don't want to comment anymore because this topic has evolved into a kind of hall of bashing for DBM, with little more than roughly the same people repeating the same criticisms over and over again, and then debates regarding that? Could that be a possible reason? Or you actually think this topic is a fun topic to read? Because I'm pretty sure it isn't. In fact, one of the reasons why I comment so much whenever people criticize the comic unfairly is precisely to hopefully make people realize that that kind of criticism, especially when repeated, is just pointless, in the hopes that the topic can move on to actually be a fun topic again. But most of the time it gets the opposite effect, go figure... Heck, even the DBM website comments, despite their youtube-comment-like nature manage to be more fun that this topic. Meanwhile, other fanmangas that have similar or worse quality to DBM, have topics in this forum with less pages but that at least are fun to read. Once again, go figure...

[Skar]

But in the end they always get a full scenario by Salagir - only it may be influenced by their likes and dislikes. So if an artist wants to draw a fight and not include much info, then yeah, they draw that - and the problem is that sometimes they make them longer then we, readers would like (the fights aren't always described panel-by-panel in the scenario so that the artist can fit them best to his style and sometimes it results in their increased length).

I see. Has there been a time when Salagir told the artist that the fighting was too long or that it didn't meet the storyline he asked for? I imagine it would be hard to ask those artists to redraw the entire chapter for free if they were told it wasn't good enough the first time.

While I do agree the comparison is a bit unfair, it is still the fault of the writers to not keep focus on a grand story. Other comic books have several lines to fix this issue. Like having several stories run in the same universe. DBM is a different case and can't really afford to do that which leaves them in a pickle. Pickle or not I'm left with the final product, and it's pretty cardboard heavy during the tournament itself.Their ambition wrote them into a corner to make them unable to get a focused story.

What you recommend to make the story more focused? The focus is the tournament itself and giving a lot of fan service that wouldn't be possible in other stories. I think the goal of all fan fiction is to pay homage to the original work and try to expand on that universe. I feel DBM does a good job of that while still being creative because most of the time "fan service" involves literally repeating a plot from the manga or movie. I think it just depends on what your expectations are. For me the manga ended at a good place with the heroes retiring after proving they were the strongest in history by defeating the strongest threat in history. That was before Battle of Gods which makes it even more difficult to come up with a plausible sequel. If Beerus is over 75 million years and the only person he ever met that could challenge him was Whis then I find it hard to believe a bunch of random villains stronger than him will start showing up out of no where. Some people enjoy those kinds of stories but I don't. When I started reading chapter one of DBM I didn't expect much other than the tournament. I felt Dragonball's story was over so this was just meant as a side adventure for the Z fighters because they have nothing else to do in their universe. I expected there to be some cool fights, seeing the alternate versions of canon characters,and the interactions between the characters. I wouldn't mind if the ending was just the villains joining forces and then there's a giant battle royal between good and evil. After that only the heroes get wished back and then return to their universes. Of course I don't expect Salagir to actually do that but I'm just saying that I started reading the story because I looked forward to seeing the entire tournament.

Personally Kaiserneko summed up everything

Because the ONLY THING THAT WAS EVER GOOD ABOUT THIS FAN-MANGA WAS THE ART.

The fights have been lame, uncreative, and poorly paced.

The story was just one giant setup for these poorly done fights.

Without the art, it just becomes... completely uninspired garbage.

This fan-comic sucks. It captures none of the spirit of DragonBall and it's art was the only thing that made it any good, even if the angles were totally boring and the plot terrible.

I have to say I disagree with him here. Gogeta Jr was an incredible artist but it's not like he was leagues above every other fan comic artist. Both AFs, New Age, and EX had similar quality art and at times more detailed. I'm not sure if it's more popular than Toyble's AF but DBM is the first fan comic that shows up when you search "dragonball" or "dragon ball" so I'm assuming it's the most searched fan comic. Plus it's been translated in over 30 languages which wouldn't make sense if people were just checking it out for the nice art. I understand if he's not a fan of the comic but to say it's only famous for its art wouldn't be fair and not true once you compare it to all the other beautifully drawn comics.

[dbzfan7]

I don't get you... First you say that there's a few things keeping DBM from being special, and then you agree with what Kaiserneko said about the comic not anything good besides the art. How could it become special with more development if there's nothing good besides the art?

Also, I actually laughed with your conclusion regarding why some people don't comment here anymore. Honestly, could that conclusion be any more biased? How about some people don't want to comment anymore because this topic has evolved into a kind of hall of bashing for DBM, with little more than roughly the same people repeating the same criticisms over and over again, and then debates regarding that? Could that be a possible reason? Or you actually think this topic is a fun topic to read? Because I'm pretty sure it isn't. In fact, one of the reasons why I comment so much whenever people criticize the comic unfairly is precisely to hopefully make people realize that that kind of criticism, especially when repeated, is just pointless, in the hopes that the topic can move on to actually be a fun topic again. But most of the time it gets the opposite effect, go figure... Heck, even the DBM website comments, despite their youtube-comment-like nature manage to be more fun that this topic. Meanwhile, other fanmangas that have similar or worse quality to DBM, have topics in this forum with less pages but that at least are fun to read. Once again, go figure...

Special to me can still rate 6/10. I consider above average special. There is nothing really good beyond the art. But honestly all you really need is good art, pacing, story, and characters. We have Good art, shit pacing, poor story, and good characters who are misused. But yeah go on and be like that.

Yeah cause defense is "Due to schedule and shit planning behind the scenes, just ignore that the story is piss poor and wait another 3 years like a bunch of drones til something happens." You do that man.

[rereboy]

Special to me can still rate 6/10. I consider above average special. There is nothing really good beyond the art. But honestly all you really need is good art, pacing, story, and characters. We have Good art, shit pacing, poor story, and good characters who are misused. But yeah go on and be like that.

Yeah cause defense is "Due to schedule and shit planning behind the scenes, just ignore that the story is piss poor and wait another 3 years like a bunch of drones til something happens." You do that man.

You think that just because I take the time to point out that bashing is pointless and unfair, and state the reasons why I don't agree with certain criticisms is "defense"? . Typical...

But hey, if you want this topic to be nothing more that exaggerated posts with colorful language and imaginative examples bashing the comic, I'd say that you are doing a pretty good job. I would point out that that its an exaggeration to do that and I would try to put things in perspective so that people criticize fairly, instead of bashing, and without constant repetition, but apparently that's just defending the comic, so, fire away...

[dbzfan7]

Special to me can still rate 6/10. I consider above average special. There is nothing really good beyond the art. But honestly all you really need is good art, pacing, story, and characters. We have Good art, shit pacing, poor story, and good characters who are misused. But yeah go on and be like that.

Yeah cause defense is "Due to schedule and shit planning behind the scenes, just ignore that the story is piss poor and wait another 3 years like a bunch of drones til something happens." You do that man.

You think that just because I take the time to point out that bashing is pointless and unfair, and state the reasons why I don't agree with certain criticisms is "defense"? . Typical...

Unfair...hardly . Pretty much everything said by Tony, Random, Kental, GM, and all those past comments I've seen are right. Sounds like babying a property to me.

Typical? You mean how the most crippling problem of any comic has been around in this one for several years and is still going on to this day. Yeah I know right . I agree typical, like how most fan work has pretty shit story telling...just like this fan work . What are the odds another piece of fanwork can't get a good story like tons of others.