Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Drayenko]

@Kamiccolo9:

But by your logic, nobody should say ANYTHING here, unless is to post news. Because a "that looks awesome!" doesn't add anything whatsoever "either."

And that's it. I don't want to turn the topic on something non-Dragon Ball related.

[KaiserNeko]

And how is being cheerful productive?

There's just no right way to view things.

Of course there's no right way. My perspective is that there's nothing productive in being critical of something without all the information, context, etc. besides just cultivating a negative attitude Toward the movie and the franchise in general.

"It's fun to hate on things" is basically the attitude I'm seeing from some people, and it's all but soured me to this board in general as of late. I don't want to be pleasantly surprised because I actively tried to find flaws. I want to enjoy the experience as it is given to me. I enjoy approaching things from a neutral, open-minded perspective, without an overwhelming positive or negative expectation. I think that provides the most pure experience, at least for myself.

"The writing is terrible" is only a valid statement when everything is presented as a whole, in my opinion. This pessimistic conjecture does nothing but try and cultivate negativity and make what should be a fun, positive experience into an exercise in cinicism and bitterness.

But that's just my perspective.

I'll only call the writing terrible after I see the movie, and the writing is in fact terrible.

Otherwise we're making conjecture and nothing more. Not getting my hopes up, but I'm not making assumptions in the opposite direction either. It's pointless and a waste of energy, to me, without the full context and experience.

I'm not saying the entire movie is terribly written or that it'll be a terrible movie....I'm just saying the fact that they are presenting this under the premise of Freeza training for 4 months and becoming more powerful than a Super Saiyan 3, Majin Buu, and Gohan...is just stupid. I mean I don't know how much more context they can add but we'll see. I just can't believe such a thing is realistically possible. (And I mean realistically within the confines of the Dragon Ball universe)

Goku more than tripled his "power level" in a week on his way to Namek. Freeza's entire family is portrayed as haughty, lazy aristocrats, essentially born as demi-gods. I'm not the least bit surprised he didn't train, nor would I be surprised that legitimate training would bring out sufficient results.

More than that, we have no idea if it's merely his training that increases his power. What's that ring on Sorbet all about? We have no clue. We don't know how a lot of this is going to develop, and trying to aft like we do is just so unnecessary to me.

[dbzfan7]

@Kamiccolo9:

But by your logic, nobody should say ANYTHING here, unless is to post news. Because a "that looks awesome!" doesn't add anything whatsoever "either."

And that's it. I don't want to turn the topic on something non-Dragon Ball related.

He does have a point. Repeating statements isn't really very productive, but repeated praise kinda isn't either.

Speaking of which it's hilarious Freeza is a master in Xenoverse, even though he hasn't trained ever.

[Herms]

More than anything, people need to realize that the point of writing posts on forums is so that others can read them, and that therefore you should always try and write posts that are worth reading. That's the fundamental failure I'm seeing throughout this thread, rather than anything specifically to do with people being too negative or not negative enough.

[Drayenko]

That is exactly what I think. Taking dbzfan7 as an example. I think most of his post in this thread, can be labeled as "negative," but I love reading them. In my opinion he is critically analyzing what we are being given everyday. But that's just my take on it.

And there are the good "positive" posts too of course! All I'm saying is negative doesn't mean "non-productive," or whatever. As long as it is a well thought post, it adds something.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Also makes Freeza who even by his own words prefers to stay on the side of caution, a total lazy fuck. He prefers to be cautious, but won't do the simplest thing to prepare for those fears...train.

Training would require admitting that he's afraid of those things though, and a big part of Freeza's character prior to this has always been that he's too arrogant, too proud, to admit that he's actually fearful of being overthrown. Sure, he might say that the Saiyans could be a problem therefore he should just kill them all, but he does it in an off-handed way, like how most people would say 'man it sure would suck to get bitten by like a thousand mosquitoes at once' (not sure how that topic of conversation would come up, but...). Killing them all was just putting a band-aid over it, basically, and shrugging it off. Him actually training though, requires that he either admit to himself, and others, that he actually wasn't all-powerful after all, or being forced to see that this was the case. As he has been, twice now.

[dbzfan7]

That is exactly what I think. Taking dbzfan7 as an example. I think most of his post in this thread, can be labeled as "negative," but I love reading them. In my opinion he is critically analyzing what we are being given everyday. But that's just my take on it.

And there are the good "positive" posts too of course! All I'm saying is negative doesn't mean "non-productive," or whatever. As long as it is a well thought post, it adds something.

I do have positive things to say too. I like all the outfits. I like Goku and Vegeta training with Whis. I like they are attempting to make side characters more useful...even if it's still kinda stupid...it's like putting 1000 ants vs one guy with a flame thrower and fire retardant suit. I like the looks of the new characters...even if they'll amount to nothing. One was killed off already. I like the idea of Freeza training to get stronger (But 4 months..and never having trained at all..really). I like news of Piccolo maybe being something more. I like Kamesenin being awesome again. Maybe I can think of more good things to say.

Also makes Freeza who even by his own words prefers to stay on the side of caution, a total lazy fuck. He prefers to be cautious, but won't do the simplest thing to prepare for those fears...train.

Training would require admitting that he's afraid of those things though, and a big part of Freeza's character prior to this has always been that he's too arrogant, too proud, to admit that he's actually fearful of being overthrown. Sure, he might say that the Saiyans could be a problem therefore he should just kill them all, but he does it in an off-handed way, like how most people would say 'man it sure would suck to get bitten by like a thousand mosquitoes at once' (not sure how that topic of conversation would come up, but...). Killing them all was just putting a band-aid over it, basically, and shrugging it off. Him actually training though, requires that he either admit to himself, and others, that he actually wasn't all-powerful after all, or being forced to see that this was the case. As he has been, twice now.

But he has admitted he's not enough before. He even said he might need his dads help to beat Goku...but if he knew he was such a prodigy, he only needs a day or a week to crush everyone. His dad has also said people stronger than him exist, so it's like Vegeta's fake boast all over again.

[KaiserNeko]

That is exactly what I think. Taking dbzfan7 as an example. I think most of his post in this thread, can be labeled as "negative," but I love reading them. In my opinion he is critically analyzing what we are being given everyday. But that's just my take on it.

And there are the good "positive" posts too of course! All I'm saying is negative doesn't mean "non-productive," or whatever. As long as it is a well thought post, it adds something.

There's a fundamental difference between:

A. "He says that he'll be powerful enough to defeat Goku in four months? That seems a bit short. Also, he's never trained before? You'd think someone as shrewd and paranoid as Freeza would have taken any precaution he could to ensure his rule. I wonder how they'll explain that."

B: "4 months and he's going to beat Goku? That's terrible writing. God, this movie just keeps lowering my expectations."

I'm trying to consolidate both points of view and not strawman this, but whereas A. highlights concerns, B. does nothing to add to the conversation and immediately ignores the possibility that the finished product could very well deny their expectations. Expectations that, by the way, are largely baseless with the very little we've seen or heard about from the film.

I'm not saying there isn't room for criticism and analysis, or that those who find the information they've received as disappointing should stay quiet. But from my perspective, I'm seeing a lot of negative assumptions being made where there's so much detail still missing, and that does seem like a waste to me, and is so endlessly dour.

[dbzfan7]

That is exactly what I think. Taking dbzfan7 as an example. I think most of his post in this thread, can be labeled as "negative," but I love reading them. In my opinion he is critically analyzing what we are being given everyday. But that's just my take on it.

And there are the good "positive" posts too of course! All I'm saying is negative doesn't mean "non-productive," or whatever. As long as it is a well thought post, it adds something.

There's a fundamental difference between:

A. "He says that he'll be powerful enough to defeat Goku in four months? That seems a bit short. Also, he's never trained before? You'd think someone as shrewd and paranoid as Freeza would have taken any precaution he could to ensure his rule. I wonder how they'll explain that."

B: "4 months and he's going to beat Goku? That's terrible writing. God, this movie just keeps lowering my expectations."

I'm trying to consolidate both points of view and not strawman this, but whereas A. highlights concerns, B. does nothing to add to the conversation and immediately ignores the possibility that the finished product could very well deny their expectations. Expectations that, by the way, are largely baseless with the very little we've seen or heard about from the film.

I'm not saying there isn't room for criticism and analysis, or that those who find the information they've received as disappointing should stay quiet. But from my perspective, I'm seeing a lot of negative assumptions being made where there's so much detail still missing, and that does seem like a waste to me, and is so endlessly dour.

Well personally another issue is how easily they can make Freeza training work. Give him more time like he was wished back years ahead instead. Instead they go 4 months cause they seemingly want to keep everything in this time period. Also Freeza gaining another form when all his forms are mere restrictions of his true form, is kinda dumb. Maybe they took inspiration from Cooler, even if it was dumb there too.

[TheGmGoken]

Because they don't take place in the same universe or impacted the story in ANY way. They're just 45 minutes short stories. All sudden movies count when it's Goku's time but any other time it's

"Movie sucks. It's non canon!".

Even if the previous movies were bad or not it doesn't take the fact that we have already seen Goku win a lot because of them.
And people already gave you examples of canon villians, or Buu and Yakon don't count?
Buu was a mayor villian.
He also defeated Freeza the first time, not killing but he did defeated him.

Movies weren't written by Toriyama and most don't even count the movies unless it's convenient for them.

The movies being non-canon doesn't change the fact that Goku "finally" beating the villain isn't a fresh idea at all. I also don't see how Goku beating Buu doesn't count.

I didn't see the people posts. And I already said Goku didn't win a battle since Freeza. Meaning he defeated Freeza. And I honestly forgot about Takin. The Earth defeated Boo. Vegeta implied that. Hell Satan had more of a roll defeating Boo than Goku. The only person with a worst record than Goku is Piccolo (Who only won 1 battle which was 2v1).

[Chrono Trigger]

Goku more than tripled his "power level" in a week on his way to Namek. Freeza's entire family is portrayed as haughty, lazy aristocrats, essentially born as demi-gods. I'm not the least bit surprised he didn't train, nor would I be surprised that legitimate training would bring out sufficient results.

More than that, we have no idea if it's merely his training that increases his power. What's that ring on Sorbet all about? We have no clue. We don't know how a lot of this is going to develop, and trying to aft like we do is just so unnecessary to me.

You know...I never thought of it that way. If you look at it as being a "Hard work/Lazy talent" kinda thing it all makes sense. Or at least it doesn't sound so far fetched....never mind then. I guess it is pretty pointless to judge it before we've seen it.

[Chuquita]

That is exactly what I think. Taking dbzfan7 as an example. I think most of his post in this thread, can be labeled as "negative," but I love reading them. In my opinion he is critically analyzing what we are being given everyday. But that's just my take on it.

And there are the good "positive" posts too of course! All I'm saying is negative doesn't mean "non-productive," or whatever. As long as it is a well thought post, it adds something.

There's a fundamental difference between:

A. "He says that he'll be powerful enough to defeat Goku in four months? That seems a bit short. Also, he's never trained before? You'd think someone as shrewd and paranoid as Freeza would have taken any precaution he could to ensure his rule. I wonder how they'll explain that."

B: "4 months and he's going to beat Goku? That's terrible writing. God, this movie just keeps lowering my expectations."

I'm trying to consolidate both points of view and not strawman this, but whereas A. highlights concerns, B. does nothing to add to the conversation and immediately ignores the possibility that the finished product could very well deny their expectations. Expectations that, by the way, are largely baseless with the very little we've seen or heard about from the film.

I'm not saying there isn't room for criticism and analysis, or that those who find the information they've received as disappointing should stay quiet. But from my perspective, I'm seeing a lot of negative assumptions being made where there's so much detail still missing, and that does seem like a waste to me, and is so endlessly dour.

While it's not a solution, I've found scrolling past the B Type posts when I see them coming helps. I try to wait out the thread when it descends into that and come back when actual news happens.

The mods have been stepping in when they can and that helps too.

[Tyro]

Whether it's a day, 4 months, or 20 years, I just want it to be an interesting way for an old villain to gain a massive amount of power. I feel that the series has come too far for someone to surpass Super Saiyan 3 with a good diet and plenty of exercise.

Tell me Freeza combed the universe looking for how to obtain godly ki. Tell me he found ancient magic that helped draw out his latent ability. Just don't let me down by saying he was capable of it ever since he fought Goku. That's quite boring, and IMO very poor writing.

[FortuneSSJ]

This whole thing is making feel as if I'm reading Fairy Tail.

Impossible. Not even the good guys train in Fairy Tail. Its bullshit friendship power up in every fight and new attacks coming from Mashima's ass without explanation.
Don't bring that garbage here.

[KaiserNeko]

That is exactly what I think. Taking dbzfan7 as an example. I think most of his post in this thread, can be labeled as "negative," but I love reading them. In my opinion he is critically analyzing what we are being given everyday. But that's just my take on it.

And there are the good "positive" posts too of course! All I'm saying is negative doesn't mean "non-productive," or whatever. As long as it is a well thought post, it adds something.

There's a fundamental difference between:

A. "He says that he'll be powerful enough to defeat Goku in four months? That seems a bit short. Also, he's never trained before? You'd think someone as shrewd and paranoid as Freeza would have taken any precaution he could to ensure his rule. I wonder how they'll explain that."

B: "4 months and he's going to beat Goku? That's terrible writing. God, this movie just keeps lowering my expectations."

I'm trying to consolidate both points of view and not strawman this, but whereas A. highlights concerns, B. does nothing to add to the conversation and immediately ignores the possibility that the finished product could very well deny their expectations. Expectations that, by the way, are largely baseless with the very little we've seen or heard about from the film.

I'm not saying there isn't room for criticism and analysis, or that those who find the information they've received as disappointing should stay quiet. But from my perspective, I'm seeing a lot of negative assumptions being made where there's so much detail still missing, and that does seem like a waste to me, and is so endlessly dour.

Well personally another issue is how easily they can make Freeza training work. Give him more time like he was wished back years ahead instead. Instead they go 4 months cause they seemingly want to keep everything in this time period. Also Freeza gaining another form when all his forms are mere restrictions of his true form, is kinda dumb. Maybe they took inspiration from Cooler, even if it was dumb there too.

The biggest problem with giving him more time has to do with the time frame of which this movie takes place, but four months is still nothing to me. Not when you consider what I posted above about that whole deal. (Just give that a read, it's easier that way.)

As far as the transformation angle goes: We've already seen that he has the capability of transformation. Why is it at all peculiar now that he would have one that would expand his abilities instead of restrict them? It doesn't seem odd at all, though it does feel a tad convenient.

Of course, if I complained about every convenience in Dragonball, ho boy. I do temper my expectations just a wee bit, with this series, I won't lie!

[Beerus-sama]

I didn't see the people posts. And I already said Goku didn't win a battle since Freeza. Meaning he defeated Freeza. And I honestly forgot about Takin. The Earth defeated Boo. Vegeta implied that. Hell Satan had more of a roll defeating Boo than Goku.

It was Goku strength that made the Genkidama hit Buu (even if it was Vegeta's wish)

also about the post:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 40#p877841

The biggest problem with giving him more time has to do with the time frame of which this movie takes place, but four months is still nothing to me.

I think the 4 month is as like someone said pages ago: Because 4 is said like the word "death" in japanese so in some way its a pun and not something to take that serious.

[Gyt Kaliba]

But he has admitted he's not enough before. He even said he might need his dads help to beat Goku...but if he knew he was such a prodigy, he only needs a day or a week to crush everyone. His dad has also said people stronger than him exist, so it's like Vegeta's fake boast all over again.

That was only after being humbled somewhat from his loss to Goku though. There was some implication that his new body made him stronger from what I recall, as well as having his father on board, so as far as we'd be able to guess, he still hadn't had his eyes fully opened yet. He most likely still looked at 'training' as something that lesser beings than himself did, since presumably his father probably never trained either.

Also Freeza gaining another form when all his forms are mere restrictions of his true form, is kinda dumb. Maybe they took inspiration from Cooler, even if it was dumb there too.

Cooler stated that it was a form his brother and father knew nothing about, so it really should be treated as a completely different animal than Freeza's forms. That and, Freeza's new 'form' could still turn out to just be that aura of godly ki around him, for all we know. This is more of that making assumptions about things we don't really know yet that we're talking about.

While it's not a solution, I've found scrolling past the B Type posts when I see them coming helps. I try to wait out the thread when it descends into that and come back when actual news happens.

True, there is that. And I've tried really, really hard to do the same...but after a while seeing the same overflow of comments about how everything about everything sucks, it starts to wear down my self control.

This whole thing is making feel as if I'm reading Fairy Tail.

Impossible. Not even the good guys train in Fairy Tail. Its bullshit friendship power up in every fight and new attacks coming from Mashima's ass without explanation.
Don't bring that garbage here.

Not to go off topic, but uh...I can think of a few instances where training has occurred in Fairy Tail, so that's a pretty over-the-top generalization. Just saying.

[Bullza]

One week to go until Frieza's new form is officially revealed.

[TheGmGoken]

I didn't see the people posts. And I already said Goku didn't win a battle since Freeza. Meaning he defeated Freeza. And I honestly forgot about Takin. The Earth defeated Boo. Vegeta implied that. Hell Satan had more of a roll defeating Boo than Goku.

It was Goku strength that made the Genkidama hit Buu (even if it was Vegeta's wish)

also about the post:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 40#p877841

Once again I'm not counting the pre Toriyama movies. Since most don't count them unless it's convenient to them(Such as Goku winning). Goku didn't have stamina due to SSJ3. It was the Earth energy that killed Boo(Vegeta said it) and Satan's motivation.

And I haven't seen much negative rants in this thread. Unless I just don't pay attention to them.

[dbzfan7]

The biggest problem with giving him more time has to do with the time frame of which this movie takes place, but four months is still nothing to me. Not when you consider what I posted above about that whole deal. (Just give that a read, it's easier that way.)

As far as the transformation angle goes: We've already seen that he has the capability of transformation. Why is it at all peculiar now that he would have one that would expand his abilities instead of restrict them? It doesn't seem odd at all, though it does feel a tad convenient.

Of course, if I complained about every convenience in Dragonball, ho boy. I do temper my expectations just a wee bit, with this series, I won't lie!

I understand we don't quite know how it's done, but even so it's something that shouldn't be handled as an offhanded "I just trained...the end". Especially considering all the different ways we've seen training. Sparing being one of the best forms, but he doesn't have anyone who compares to his power on his side. Having this much latent power means he might have needed a single day to surpass everyone back then. He even admits he might need his dads help to beat Goku. So why not take just one day of training, and fix that if he's such a prodigy. It also comes out of left field as it's pretty easy to tell who knows how to fight, and who doesn't. At equal levels, Goku should have 0 problems pounding him since he has no real fight training, no real martial arts. Yet this never really came up at any time in their previous fights. It's even more funny Freeza is a Master in Xenoverse, and he's never trained. Though that last one means nothing to this topic, just kinda funny.

Well I like to see those complaints. I lol at "FUCK THIS MOVIE".