What controversial themes/social issues can work in DB?

[EXBadguy]

Yep, you read it.

For me, it's two things. One idea would work is hate groups(KKK, New Black Panther Party, Nazis, if it rings a bell to anyone here). I think some hate groups can work at least in the Frieza saga, cuz that saga did have a "somewhat" political vibe to it. I say just replace the Ginyu Force(as it's hard for me to say) with a hate group and have them perform massive genocide on a massive number of Namekians, just because they don't believe what they the hate group believes in.

Another one would be somebody blowing him/herself up for religious reasons. *shrug* I mean, it worked in other shonen titles, so why not?

[FoolsGil]

Oolong was supposed to be a dig on Communism at one point. That could've been something worth exploring I think.

[HG-Project]

Definitely racism/race supremacy, genocide, abusive autocracies, corruption in businesses, gangs, the black market,
Along with that, impoverishment in developing nations, lack of education, huge gaps between social strata, widespread hunger (or thirst), Domestic dysfunction, child abuse, crime, human trafficking, religion, sexuality, war/lasting vendettas between nations, refugees, general human helplessness against the unknown,
disabilities/special conditions, mortality, international/stellar relations, eugenics, science and ethics, self-identity, existentialism, concept of morality...just to name a few that comes up automatically.

I mean, you can read deeply into pretty much anything and pull up all sorts of connections and themes that maybe the author didn't even intend to incorporate. We tend to reflect what we know when we experience or look at anything, so it's quite easy to over-think and complicate anything, even Dragonball.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Wut.

Seriously wut. I was alreadywary by the title but the actual post is WUT. Seriously, do we NEED hate groups in DBZ? I did warm to the idea of serious themes and social issues in DBZ in the half second it took to load the thread but you lost me at Hategroups and stuff in Dragon Ball. REALLY?

While I agree with Rocketman that DB aint the babyish show other claim it is. Its DEFINITELY not the show for Hate Groups. Even One Piece which tackles issues such as racism doesnt doesnt have hategroups in it.

God and now I read the rest where people blow themselves up for religious/ideological reasons. I again apologize for saying this but this is terrible and you are way too focused on cheap shock valus. I dont really see these examples as mature and grown up storytalling. If you had put more subtle and less "Shocking" (There are serious issues that could very well be adressed in DB without all this shock value crap.Like racism,sexism.discrimiantion in general ETC)stuff I may have agreed but now I will never do it.

[HG-Project]

Wut.

Seriously wut. I was alreadywary by the title but the actual post is WUT. Seriously, do we NEED hate groups in DBZ? I did warm to the idea of serious themes and social issues in DBZ in the half second it took to load the thread but you lost me at Hategroups and stuff in Dragon Ball. REALLY?

While I agree with Rocketman that DB aint the babyish show other claim it is. Its DEFINITELY not the show for Hate Groups. Even One Piece which tackles issues such as racism doesnt doesnt have hategroups in it.

God and now I read the rest where people blow themselves up for religious/ideological reasons. I again apologize for saying this but this is terrible and you are way too focused on cheap shock valus. I dont really see these examples as mature and grown up storytalling. If you had put more subtle and less "Shocking" (There are serious issues that could very well be adressed in DB without all this shock value crap.Like racism,sexism.discrimiantion in general ETC)stuff I may have agreed but now I will never do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was asking about what social issues or controversial themes come up within the series, not what he can personally put into it to convey a distasteful message.

If the latter is true, that would be a pretty uncool thing to do and quite disrespectful to other fans as well as the series' creator.

[Kamiccolo9]

I know that TFS likes to joke about it, but abandonment would be an interesting issue to bring up with Gohan.

[Hellspawn28]

I think a environmental theme could work without using Global Warming. Movie 3 had somewhat of a theme going for it.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Wut.

Seriously wut. I was alreadywary by the title but the actual post is WUT. Seriously, do we NEED hate groups in DBZ? I did warm to the idea of serious themes and social issues in DBZ in the half second it took to load the thread but you lost me at Hategroups and stuff in Dragon Ball. REALLY?

While I agree with Rocketman that DB aint the babyish show other claim it is. Its DEFINITELY not the show for Hate Groups. Even One Piece which tackles issues such as racism doesnt doesnt have hategroups in it.

God and now I read the rest where people blow themselves up for religious/ideological reasons. I again apologize for saying this but this is terrible and you are way too focused on cheap shock valus. I dont really see these examples as mature and grown up storytalling. If you had put more subtle and less "Shocking" (There are serious issues that could very well be adressed in DB without all this shock value crap.Like racism,sexism.discrimiantion in general ETC)stuff I may have agreed but now I will never do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was asking about what social issues or controversial themes come up within the series, not what he can personally put into it to convey a distasteful message.

If the latter is true, that would be a pretty uncool thing to do and quite disrespectful to other fans as well as the series' creator.

No, I thought so too and I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, but he means to insert such stuff that isnt already there. I know he might have meant to just adress mature themes in a sensible way but his post doesnt help his case at all.

I definitely would have loved the topic if it was about putting more serious IRL themes or see and discuss possible issues like that that really are already present in DB but no, its Cheap Shock Value Serious Issues.

[cpuguy18]

Racism frieza was pretty much Hitler.

[DBZAOTA482]

Saiyans are black people.... no for real, they are.

[EXBadguy]

I definitely would have loved the topic if it was about putting more serious IRL themes or see and discuss possible issues like that that really are already present in DB.

So do that then! This thread isn't just about inserting stuff in. Plus I never even thought about shock values while making this thread. I just thought that suicides were in some other shonen series. Not saying it has to be that serious.

Saiyans are black people.... no for real, they are.

Yeah. The way Freeza calls them a racial slur("monkeys"), sure reminds me of slavery. I say that's a good tackle.

Speaking of the slur "monkeys" another theme would work would be a "Uncle Tom-ish" Saiyan who sides with Frieza and continuously calls the other saiyan "monkeys", like back in Frieza's prime, an "Saiyan Uncle Tom" would've been one of the lead people who enslaves the saiyans.

[Eire]

Saiyans are black people.... no for real, they are.

Except they aren't- their skin looks like they have been living under the rock and crawled outside only in moonless nights.
Now, seriously- I tried to see it from many POVs and I can't see the chattel slavery parallel you want to make. Slurs regarding other ethnic groups have been around since one ape saw that those another tribe has another hair so they are too vague.

Frieza didn't officially treat them as property, never sold them and didn't even bother to interferer with their affairs as long as they obeyed him. It's essentially vassalage- not personal but countries' level of relationship that appeared in all times and cultures. Frieza was just luckier than most of the real world counterparts that punishment for disobedience from him would be quick, painful and delivered in person.
When I watched DB for the first time that particular plot reminded me Crimean Khanate and Ottoman Empire- similar military dependence, similar will of independence, similar resentments from both sides.

[Lord Beerus]

Racism. That is underlining theme in Dragon Ball that has been explored during the rise of Saiyan race when they arrived on Planet Tuffle and were pretty much segregated and forced to live in crappy environment and couldn't interact much with the Tuffles. It's even suggested the Saiyans were treated like slaves by the Tuffles. And it doesn't get any better when the Saiyans become a part of the PTO and are pretty much looked down upon by practically every other race.

[Eire]

On the other hand Sayians did had their payback...
Honestly I 'd love to watch it- we know basically nothing apart the fact that there has been lots of resentment that explode into genocidal war. Especially from someone who could show that both sides had a point (Riyoko Ikeda... I was promised Rose of the Versailles 15 years ago and never got it, so hear my plea!)

[Polyphase Avatron]

They did Nazis already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBudU8BiQw4

[Deathbringer]

Saiyans are black people.... no for real, they are.

Yeah. The way Freeza calls them a racial slur("monkeys"), sure reminds me of slavery. I say that's a good tackle.

Yeah but was that actually intentional? Like the use of the slang "Toons" in Roger Rabbit?

[LuckyCat]

Racism. And it doesn't get any better when the Saiyans become a part of the PTO and are pretty much looked down upon by practically every other race.

No, Freeza is all about power and obedience, he doesn't care about race. Radditz seems to be proud to work for the planet exchange, and Nappa and Vegeta are called "lord" by some of the other Freeza races. Hell, Freeza was willing to let Goku have a high position under him (And later Trunks by Cold) just because of their potential. So, as long as you are strong and obey Freeza you do very well in his empire. The only major social interactions with Saiyans and Freeza's soldiers we see come from after Freeza has given orders that Saiyans be eradicated. And even that move wasn't done for racial reasons, but rather for rising disobedience from a powerful group of citizens.

As for the topic, I think there are some "superiority of machine" versus man themes throughout Android and Cell saga. It's very similar to themes we see in Terminator or The Matrix, but there is definitely a mutual hatred between machines who are upset and being enslaved and humans who reject the machines for trying to become more powerful and reverse the pecking order.

[Monkey King Vegeta]

They did Nazis already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBudU8BiQw4

I'm glad they did that scene with Hitler, hopefully those neo-nazis will stop using the SSJ transformation for their "Aryan" beliefs.

Does anyone know why AT used blond haired blue eyes for SSJ? Was it inspired by the Nazi propaganda as some people say? or was it that "inking" issue that resulted in this?

Its hard to get some of my friends into DBZ because when they turn SSJ they ask me if they're gay. -_-

Black Saiyajins for the win! I remember a website named "The Black Goku" and comparing it to Africans-Americans was a good read, I guess Frieza would represent the slave owners.

Though I always saw the Nameks as black, specially Piccolo, that mofo was the green version of a black guy no lie.

I guess the Red Ribbon Army was meant to represent America or Nazis in a way, they had a Russian for a head, a stereotypical American blonde guy, and the stereotypical black guy.

I never really saw the Saiyans as white or asian as many people claim, they resembled caucasians in their SSJ forms and Goku was the only "asian" looking one because of his outfit, but I would put Mexicans as Saiyans because they have white Mexicans and asian ones, and fit all the Saiyan stereotypes.

I read a theory on Buu, apparently Fat Buu represents a fat (wealthy) white American and skinny black buu represents a poverty black American, ala Civil War.... mind blown?

Cell (is there a Cell appreciationThread?) could represent the 3 races of human kind, Imperfect (Oriental) he had small eyes and was cunning (Asian stereotypes), Semi-Perfect (Black) Them lips and AT's style gave it away, Perfect (White-Caucasian) this would be controversial because of the Asian stereotype of "worshiping westerners" and their ideal look of beautify or something like that.

Frieza and Cold could be like America and Britain, since many Japanese look at them as "power-country brothers", the whole Namek saga was politic conflicts, even the PTO could have been inspired by the "colonizing of countries".... probably is.

[EXBadguy]

Another one would be either one of the surviving Saiyans(Raditz, Nappa, or Vegeta) having tiny hole scars on their back from Frieza's Death Beam. That'd be a good nod to 12 Years a Slave(which is one of the BEST MOVIES EVER!)

Saiyans are black people.... no for real, they are.

Yeah. The way Freeza calls them a racial slur("monkeys"), sure reminds me of slavery. I say that's a good tackle.

Yeah but was that actually intentional? Like the use of the slang "Toons" in Roger Rabbit?

Of course it wasn't intentional. At least not to me.

[chaosakita]

I was going to say "nothing" and that Dragon Ball really shouldn't deal with RL issues. But if you really want to make the case that it needs to, then you can look at how Freeza was modeled after real estate speculators which was a real problem for Japan in the 90s. Also the theme song for the new movie, "F", also talks about real world issues such as genocide.