Why doesn't Goku have a Third Eye like Tenshinhan?

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Re: Why doesn't Goku have a Third Eye like Tenshinhan?

Post by Herms » Sat May 23, 2015 6:42 pm

GS7X7 wrote:He ignored the whole "Ten's an alien" thing from the Daizenshuu.

Huh, guess maybe Ten isn't an alien then? Then again there is ZERO evidence or allusion to him being an alien anywhere in the anime/manga series.
"Ignored" is probably the wrong word. Odds are, he simply forgot.

Anyway, that interview is from about ten years back, and since then we've had more guides and whatnot come out and repeat the whole "Tenshinhan's descended from the Three-Eyed Clan" thing, so it's not been discarded. Ultimately it's up to you what you want to accept, but fitting Toriyama's comment from that interview together with the "descended from aliens" thing is a piece of cake compared to trying to reconcile Toriyama's two different accounts of where Kaioshins come from, or fitting his brand new origin for Boo into what we're told in the series itself.

Also, we've been focusing on the "third eye" bit, but it needs to be stressed that the "descended from aliens" idea is presented primarily as an explanation for why Tenshinhan can grow extra arms and split into four people. The guides say those are techniques Tenshinhan inherited from his Three-Eyed Clan forebears, but amusingly enough they never explicitly say his alien ancestry is where his third eye comes from, presumably because it's too obvious to spell out.

(And finally, people keep phrasing it as "Tenshinhan's an alien", when the actual idea is that he's distantly descended from aliens. He didn't drop off a spaceship like Goku or Katatz Junior. Rather, some Nth-great grandparent of his got frisky with a three-eyed, arm-sprouting visitor to Earth, and he inherited a few odd traits as a result. There's no reason to think that he or anyone else now living has any knowledge of his ancestry, and there's no point in the main story where it would have made sense to bring it up, hence its status as a bonus tidbit included in the guides. Again, you don't have to accept the idea, but let's all be clear on what the idea actually is.)
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Re: Why doesn't Goku have a Third Eye like Tenshinhan?

Post by GS7X7 » Sat May 23, 2015 10:05 pm

How authoritative are the other sources which claim the whole alien thing? And was he involved in providing that explanation to writers who were asking him for canon details surrounding the world of DB?
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Re: Why doesn't Goku have a Third Eye like Tenshinhan?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat May 23, 2015 10:22 pm

So if, hypothetically, I were to include the three-eyed clan as an alien race in a fanfic, I wonder if people would complain...
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Re: Why doesn't Goku have a Third Eye like Tenshinhan?

Post by Herms » Sat May 23, 2015 11:23 pm

GS7X7 wrote:How authoritative are the other sources which claim the whole alien thing? And was he involved in providing that explanation to writers who were asking him for canon details surrounding the world of DB?
It first pops up in Daizenshuu 4, which is a manga-only guide that contains various new info provided or overseen by Toriyama, most notably the maps of the DB cosmos and DB Earth. So odds are Toriyama either provided the idea himself or gave it his approval. Maybe just in a conversation along the lines of "Hey, what's the deal with Tenshinhan having three eyes and growing arms and shit? Is he an alien, or what?" "Yeah, he's...like, descended from the, uh, Three-Eyed Clan. Yep." It's an official guidebook published by Shueisha with Toriyama's full approval and cooperation and all that jazz, so it's unlikely that they'd throw in something like that out of nowhere for no reason (and the Full Color Q&As have proved Toriyama's capable of coming up with even weirder bombshells at the drop of a hat). The later guidebooks that have cited it likewise have the whole "official Shueisha publications with Toriyama's approval etc etc" thing going for them, and it's also mentioned in the booklets that came with the DBZ Dragon Box, and a video game or two, and some other things. The most notable exception is probably the Super Exciting Guides, which don't mention it at all. And it's still present in the chouzenshuu, whereas stuff like the fourth timeline from Daizenshuu 7 and the idea of Makaio/Makaioshins got nixed.
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Re: Why doesn't Goku have a Third Eye like Tenshinhan?

Post by GS7X7 » Sun May 24, 2015 8:48 pm

Herms wrote:
GS7X7 wrote:How authoritative are the other sources which claim the whole alien thing? And was he involved in providing that explanation to writers who were asking him for canon details surrounding the world of DB?
It first pops up in Daizenshuu 4, which is a manga-only guide that contains various new info provided or overseen by Toriyama, most notably the maps of the DB cosmos and DB Earth. So odds are Toriyama either provided the idea himself or gave it his approval. Maybe just in a conversation along the lines of "Hey, what's the deal with Tenshinhan having three eyes and growing arms and shit? Is he an alien, or what?" "Yeah, he's...like, descended from the, uh, Three-Eyed Clan. Yep." It's an official guidebook published by Shueisha with Toriyama's full approval and cooperation and all that jazz, so it's unlikely that they'd throw in something like that out of nowhere for no reason (and the Full Color Q&As have proved Toriyama's capable of coming up with even weirder bombshells at the drop of a hat). The later guidebooks that have cited it likewise have the whole "official Shueisha publications with Toriyama's approval etc etc" thing going for them, and it's also mentioned in the booklets that came with the DBZ Dragon Box, and a video game or two, and some other things. The most notable exception is probably the Super Exciting Guides, which don't mention it at all. And it's still present in the chouzenshuu, whereas stuff like the fourth timeline from Daizenshuu 7 and the idea of Makaio/Makaioshins got nixed.
Thanks! One more question- when was the 4th Daizenshuu released? After DBZ and GT were done?
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Re: Why doesn't Goku have a Third Eye like Tenshinhan?

Post by Herms » Sun May 24, 2015 8:54 pm

GS7X7 wrote:Thanks! One more question- when was the 4th Daizenshuu released? After DBZ and GT were done?
October 1995. So after the manga ended, before the DBZ anime ended, and before GT premiered.
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Re: Why doesn't Goku have a Third Eye like Tenshinhan?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun May 24, 2015 8:54 pm

GS7X7 wrote:
Herms wrote:
GS7X7 wrote:How authoritative are the other sources which claim the whole alien thing? And was he involved in providing that explanation to writers who were asking him for canon details surrounding the world of DB?
It first pops up in Daizenshuu 4, which is a manga-only guide that contains various new info provided or overseen by Toriyama, most notably the maps of the DB cosmos and DB Earth. So odds are Toriyama either provided the idea himself or gave it his approval. Maybe just in a conversation along the lines of "Hey, what's the deal with Tenshinhan having three eyes and growing arms and shit? Is he an alien, or what?" "Yeah, he's...like, descended from the, uh, Three-Eyed Clan. Yep." It's an official guidebook published by Shueisha with Toriyama's full approval and cooperation and all that jazz, so it's unlikely that they'd throw in something like that out of nowhere for no reason (and the Full Color Q&As have proved Toriyama's capable of coming up with even weirder bombshells at the drop of a hat). The later guidebooks that have cited it likewise have the whole "official Shueisha publications with Toriyama's approval etc etc" thing going for them, and it's also mentioned in the booklets that came with the DBZ Dragon Box, and a video game or two, and some other things. The most notable exception is probably the Super Exciting Guides, which don't mention it at all. And it's still present in the chouzenshuu, whereas stuff like the fourth timeline from Daizenshuu 7 and the idea of Makaio/Makaioshins got nixed.
Thanks! One more question- when was the 4th Daizenshuu released? After DBZ and GT were done?
October 9, 1995.
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Re: Why doesn't Goku have a Third Eye like Tenshinhan?

Post by GS7X7 » Sun May 24, 2015 11:40 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dr ... .281996.29

Ah okay, seems like something that came out after DBZ was essentially over.

No reference to it in Goku Time though. :/
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Re: Why doesn't Goku have a Third Eye like Tenshinhan?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun May 24, 2015 11:41 pm

GS7X7 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dr ... .281996.29

Ah okay, seems like something that came out after DBZ was essentially over.

No reference to it in Goku Time though. :/
Is Tenshinhan even in GT?
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Re: Why doesn't Goku have a Third Eye like Tenshinhan?

Post by Puto » Mon May 25, 2015 10:33 am

He has a few non voiced cameos when they're gathering all the people on Earth before it explodes.
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Re: Why doesn't Goku have a Third Eye like Tenshinhan?

Post by GS7X7 » Mon May 25, 2015 2:52 pm

Puto wrote:He has a few non voiced cameos when they're gathering all the people on Earth before it explodes.
He also shows up briefly during the last episode- he has no dialogue there though.

I don't know if Funimation's dub added dialogue for him but I honestly hope they did! Him and a lot of the others got totally screwed over in GT! C'mon, couldn't they just have done a few episodes showing what happened to other beloved characters? Have Ten marry Lunch, Yamcha retire as the most famous baseball player, have Chaotsu grow up from being a tiny, circus clown midget? :(
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