New "Remastered Box Set" Information

[MajinVejitaXV]

Also, even if MajinVegetaXV destroys FUNimations argument, which is very possible, let's face facts here as well, it's just a bit of image from a cartoon being lost, it's not the end of the world. The fan in me would prefer full screen like I said already, but when you stop being a nerd for a second you realise it doesn't really matter all things considered.

I deal with contracts all day (healthcare, I work in Pathology), much of it dealing with fraud and misrepresentation of facts. So...I get pissed when companies misrepresent things, which is why I said I'd possibly destroy their argument. I'm not 100%, but I do think they're distorting the truth to make things look better on their end.

Doesn't make me a nerd, it just means I'm not the type to automatically swallow anything that is given to me, especially if it means me or my friends have to actually pay for it.

[edit]Maybe years ago when I was 14 or 15 I would've sat and complained until the end of time. Howver, 23-year-old Kendamu is a bit more forgiving.[/edit]

That's cool. I changed myself, but stayed the same. Now, I give FUNi credit for their good work, but I'm just as (if not more) irate with them for the bad. This is just a case of a bad decision that FUNi is trying to justify with poor application of terms and a body of bad evidence. 3 shots are what we've seen so far, and nothing that is 'important' per se has been added. Just background detail (and no fight scenes, you'll note). It's amusing to me that certain screens have been posted on nearly every anime forum (split screens and so forth), but FUNi hasn't posted those in their counterarguments.

And personally, I don't question anyone's status as a 'fan', I do question FUNi for having to try and 'fix' DragonBall when it's done so well for 20 years now without an 'uber widescreen' rendition.

Now, if someone tries to tell me "You're getting more with widescreen, you're not losing anything!" and continues even after being told why that isn't the case, then I still wouldn't question their fandom so much as I'd just call them ignorant ;p

-Corey

[dragondyle]

dragondyle, you can see a comparison shot of that picture on this very page, just look near the top. And welcome to the boards It's not necessary to introduce yourself, but if you want to we have a seperate section of the forums just for that.

Oops, I linked the wrong picture. What I was trying to link was the picture of Vegeta, Krillin, Gohan, and Goku all in the same shot. Thanks for the welcome.

EDIT: This one:

[RC315]

For the image 2 comparison, I prefer the widescreen version. Let's wait and see how the rest of the show is. Anyone know how often the season sets will be released?

[dragondyle]

For the image 2 comparison, I prefer the widescreen version. Let's wait and see how the rest of the show is. Anyone know how often the season sets will be released?

Hopefully not long periods of time like the Ultimate Uncuts.

[RC315]

Anyone else not like the box art? If this is the ultimate DBZ thing, why not put a little more style into the box art? At least come up with something similar to the DragonBox.

[dragondyle]

Anyone else not like the box art? If this is the ultimate DBZ thing, why not put a little more style into the box art? At least come up with something similar to the DragonBox.

I thinks its way too orange. I wish they kept it that yellow color. It was kind of similar to the Dragon Box art. They could have found a better pic for Vegeta, though. Where are his eyes?

[denitonis]

The picture actually only works for me when the link is like this:
http://funimation.com/seasonset/#
Anyway it is an interesting way of looking at it and might be even clever, but I am very curious how it compares to the Dragon Box footage maybe when I have some more time I might look which episode it is but as of yet I won't, and somebody will probably beat me to it.
All they need now is the Next episode preview and they might have a winner, maybe Funimation should release a piece of footage to give a good view on the matter.

[Daimao]

From episode 20, as it appeared on Cartoon Network back in July of '05.

No real reason why I'm posting this, except maybe to compare the overscan issue, which will be different on different TVs anyhow.

[denitonis]

Well in that case you can compare it to this picture:


Edit:
On a second inspection I might not have hit the right frame I will try again later to see if I can match better as of now I'm going to sleep since I'm really starting to get tired and probably won't be able to get it better at the moment anyway.

[ect5150]

I'm not an NTSC expert, but the overscan bit is technically displayed, but is outsiode the viewable area of the standard TVs. But! If you are watching it on a computer monitor or an HDTV, this won't apply. You would see it on those.

All in all, the screen shot comparison page they made was excellent. If the whole series is this way at such a cheap price, it comes to like $150 for the entire series (assuming same prices and same episode count). Which is not bad. If it wasn't for the awesome price, I wouldn't consider it. But with such a good price, I very well may consider it and probably will)

Also, at least they pushed it to 6 discs, although I think it really needs 7... 6 discs is 6.5 episodes on average, while Dragon Box has 6 eps per disc. However, they have far more audio settings to deal with. If they made it 7 discs, we couldn't question that at all. Lets see if they do a quality encoding of it though.

Also, I'm still not totally convinced they have the proper colors.

Edit: I guess compared to the overscan, their version of widescreen does offer more picture. Just not compared to the DragonBox version. And THANK GOD they are doing it as 480 progressive. That in-and-of itself is evidence they are leading to a proper encoding.

[ect5150]

Anyone else not like the box art? If this is the ultimate DBZ thing, why not put a little more style into the box art? At least come up with something similar to the DragonBox.

I thinks its way too orange. I wish they kept it that yellow color. It was kind of similar to the Dragon Box art. They could have found a better pic for Vegeta, though. Where are his eyes?

I could care less about box art. Personally, I like it when its cool (the UUE were nice, and the DragonBox art is fantastic), but I'm fine if they use screen shots, but they pass the savings onto me in the form of a lower price! I really think they should just the UUE stuff. I thought it was nice.

[MagicBox]

The FAQ that FunHack posted on the FUNi Forums is the real one. I just wanted to clear that up. Sorry if I confused anybody with my fan-made FAQ.

Ah, I apologize. Hopefully I didn't get you in trouble >_>;;

Don't worry, you didn't get me in trouble. :) It's my fault for not putting some sort of disclaimer on my thread saying my FAQ was fan-made.

Anyway, I just realized that I haven't commented on this news anywhere yet. The upgrade to include an extra disc was a great decision, and even with 7 episodes on some discs, they won't look bad. I know some television shows that have upwards of eight episodes per disc for season set releases, and they look great.

I'm surprised that nobody's been speculating about bonus material. Maybe I've been spoiled by FUNi's Fullmetal Alchemist releases, but they've proven that they can really deliver supplimental material, and I expect them to dish it out for this set. The restoration featurette is a great inclusion, but I really hope that isn't the only extra. Commentaries would be a fantastic inclusion, and I'm sure the writers and voice actors wouldn't be at a loss for words if they were to sit down to create a retrospective interview-type thing. I'd pretty much be pleased with anything. The dub with Japanese music could've been the only feature and would've already made this set a must-buy, but there's still so many possibilities.

[Kendamu]

I think the boxart is fine. I prefer it over the UUE boxart. This new art looks like it got some inspiration from FUNi's Dragonball DVD sets.

I'm just not a big fan of the UUE look because I'm starting to really dislike always seeing Dragonball Z associated with [insert synth guitar solo here] with a bit of "2 T3H XTREEEEEM!!!!!1" for good measure... and that's the feeling that the UUE sets gave me. I mean, if that were the real case with Dragonball Z, we'd here the dub soundtrack on the DaizEX podcast, right?

[ect5150]

and I expect them to dish it out for this set. The restoration featurette is a great inclusion, but I really hope that isn't the only extra.

So long as its on a seperate disc. I.E. - Disc # 7 or something. Otherwise, it just takes away space that could have been used toward increasing the quality of the actual episodes. Extras are cool and should always be on a separate disc.

[MajinVejitaXV]

I had considered writing my own post, but I feel Kakugo at AnimeonDVD summed things up better than I could hope to, so when someone else has already done such a great job...

Hoo-boy, where to begin...

First by thanking FuniRepBlue for posting all this information, and noting that any venting and seething rage isn't leveled against her. Just her employer.

Season 1 bumped from 5 DVD's to 6:

Excellent. I can't applaud this descision enough. Having encoded plenty of DVD's myself, I understand how difficult it is to get something that looks good to the eye, is in DVD spec, -and- will fit on a single disc. FUNimation also has the distinct disadvantage (from an authoring standpoint) of needing to accomidate alternate angles, which requires a lower peak bitrate for cetain sequences. Progressive video definately requires less bitrate for a more 'transparent' encode, and plays much better on progressive setups than interlaced encodes. Any film that wasn't edited on video should be encoded as progressive... but that isn't always what happens. Kudos on this, truly.

Overscan explained:

This is all theoretically true. Overscan takes up between 5-10% of a TV's total image. 10% is excessive, but not unheard of. My TV is somewhere around 8%, for instance, and that's after adjusting it slightly in the service menu. Even so, not everyone watch DVD's on a TV. I myself often watches DVD's on a DVD-ROM hooked up to a CRT computer monitor. Others watch DVD's hooked up to a front projector, or a monitor with 1:1 pixel mapping. No overscan in those situations either. Similarly, there is still overscan on all 4 sides of a 16:9 TV (an HDTV/EDTV rather than an HD or ED monitor), whereas a proper 4:3 transfer would NOT crop off the sides of the original 4:3 image. Even watching these 16:9 transfers on a 4:3 TV will lead to overscan on the sides, thus negating that 10% which was restored in the first place.

10% of the original image at the top and bottom being sacrificed to overscan is still preferable to 20% of the image being sacrificed in a 16:9 telecine. Overscan will be an issue on ANY video release regardless of it's aspect ratio, and claiming otherwise is nothing short of deceptive. Yes, the new image on the sides of the film has minimised the loss on the top and bottom compared to cropping in the digital tape masters used on previous releases. Unfortunately, cropping beyond what the animators ever thought was acceptable is still not a valid excuse.

Cropping explained:

Also valid, to an extent. The comparison shots on the FUNimation website go a long way in providing a convincing argument that nothing important is lost in the 16:9 cropping. However, the "overscan" picture is basically worthless. I've already established that overscan is a problem on every TV, including a 16:9 set. So including an overscan comparison for the 4:3 shot and NOT the 16:9 shot is downright manipulative. (I'm not trying to be mean, just honest.) Pretending HDTV's don't have overscan is either an oversight, or isn't being mentioned on purpose. Comparing the film, 4:3 and 16:9 images alone is the only fair way to let fans be subjective about what was done during the telecine. Or even including a 16:9 with overscan image would be appropriate.

While this isn't the most destructive form of cropped 4:3 OAR film I've seen on DVD, it's still one that frustrates me to no end. The comparison images you've posted even show that the fullscreen 4:3 print shows details missing on the 16:9 widescreen print, particularly Gregory's antenna. I actually wish I had either the UUE or DRAGON BOX disc of this particular shot to check if the 4:3 matte used on this comparison is actually what Toei used when they framed this shot for broadcast. Not that I doubt it in general - there's only so many ways to crop the film to 4:3, I'd just like to be 110% positive this is an accurate and fair comparison. This shot isn't a particularly action packed sequence though, so cropping it isn't particularly damaging. Had a fight scene or vertical pan shot or something a bit more exticing/complex been used for this comparison, you might end up with less impressed (or at least less apathetic) reactions.

My advice to everyone at FUNimation and VPT is to stop pretending that overscan doesn't exist on 16:9 material, since a pillarboxed image on a 16:9 TV has a much overscan as a letterboxed image on a 4:3 TV. I'm not going to get indignant and start calling bloody cinematic murder on the cropping of Dragonball Z: I own far worse, and those prints were director approved. At this point I'm almost more upset about the deceptive marketing that someone at FUNimation or VPT is trying to use to make it sound like "you're getting all the image you would in a 4:3 print after overscan is taken in to consideration". We're not. These transfers are cropped to the wrong aspect ratio (and by "wrong" I mean "one the creators never planned for or intended"), with an uneven and unnessecary portion of the top and bottom of the frame lost. It's more minimal than some fans may have feared, but it's there - or rather, no there - all the same.

I'd hate to think the majority of consumers would look at the techno smoke and mirrors someone spewed in regards to overscan and take it as fact... but I don't doubt that plenty of them will. I know better, and while I'd hope that most of the rest of the world would as well... I doubt that's the case. People still buy cropped fullscreen versions of movies shot in widescreen, and as people shift to high definition equipment it's only logical that 16:9 will quickly become the new "fullscreen". I fear for movies shot in 4:3 and 2.40:1 when high definition finally replaces DVD, and releases like this are exactly why.

The worst part is these are still about the most attractive sets Dragonball Z has to offer, when price, language options and shelf space are all factored in. I honestly don't know if I can buy these. I want Dragonball Z, but I certainly can't spend the fortune that the Dragon Box sets require. Where's a crumy-yet-legit R3 release when you really need it?

Edit: It should be noted that different types of 16:9 TV's handle overscan in different ways depending on the model and manufacturer, while overscan is "fixed" on virtually all 4:3 sets (all signals will be overscanned on a 4:3 set, but this isn't always true for a 16:9 set). For instance, some 16:9 TV's only overscan when certain inputs are used, or will only overscan when fed a signal of a certain resolution. Regardless, if you can bypass overscan on the set, you should be able to bypass overscan feeding it a 4:3 signal, so the above arguments remain valid.

Sorry FUNi, for anyone with any shred of technical proficiency you lose on this one. I'm kinda insulted that you (or the company who did the remastering and possibly wrote this FAQ) would toss around such a flimsy explanation with $5 terms and think that everyone would devour them without question.

-Corey

[TheMajinRedComet]

I think this is great! I love that it looks like we are getting 5.1 japanese BGMs and frankly I think that the widescreen makes the picture quality look more civilized.

[Kendamu]

Okay, then. So, after reading that, I say to myself that I should compare the 4:3 and the 16:9 shots and ignore the overscan 4:3 shot.

Then I proceed to do so.

After looking at the shots in 4:3 and 16:9 repeatedly, I start to notice that the amount of cropped footage from the top and bottom depends on the shot itself as the letterboxing that takes place when switching from 4:3 to 16:9 isn't universal.

Also, I take into consideration that what I seem to be losing isn't really that big of a deal to me personally. I mean, c'mon... rather than going into a rage that unleashes the powers of the Super Gaijin Fanboy of legend that only appears every other thread or so (there's a lot to complain about) I simply chuckle and go on with the rest of my life when I hear things like "D'jinn" and "Vegerot" and other stuff like that.

How the Hell do you pronounce "D'jinn", anyway? Wasn't that in a podcast?

Oh, anywho, back on topic, I'm still liking what I see. Far from perfect, but perfect costs near $1000USD for the full set. And, if all else fails, I'll just invest in more Ninja Turtles stuff.

[BrollysKin]

I'm sorry but what did that letter actually say. I understood just until after they said it was going from 5 discs to 6. Then I got lost.

[Kendamu]

It explains the technical stuff behind the images at http://www.funimation.com/seasonset/index.html.

[mister yummy]

So they really are doing it widescreen? Well, that's the final straw for me. I will now not be buying any of these box sets. I'm against the idea of 16:9 Television in general, but that's just one of my little idiosynchrosies. I realise most people like them, and that, in general, it's a good move to make them.

However, when they start cropping TV shows that are done in 4:3 to begin with, that's going to far. What's next, widescreen I Love Lucy? Or maybe the Dick Van Dyke Show will get similiar bastardization. Perhaps, one day soon, we'll all be watching All In The Family, and see the tops and bottoms of the screen cut off into oblivion. This is just unconsciable. And I, for one, won't stand for it. I'm making my case now, before it's too late. As a TV fan, I cannot stand idly by while our Television Heritage is destroyed because people don't like to watch movies letterboxed. I won't just sit here and take it while classic shows are cropped and stretched instead of collumnboxed.

The way they should do it, is to remaster TV shows produced in 4:3 on film, or other HD sources, in a 480p version, and a collumboxed 1080p version. That way, everyone wins. People with standard TV's don't lose their shows, and those with HDTV's get a whole new world of detail, while keeping the origional aspect ratio.

I hate HDTV, primarily because I knew things like this would happen to television. I have no problem with new shows being produced in 16:9, but I don't want the ones that already exist to be cropped to that aspect ratio. Why couldn't they have developed HDTV to be 4:3? Then, it would be completely backward compatible, with no worries about destroying history for the sake of "filling the screen". Well, I still have the consolation that it may yet completely fail. That's one of my stronger hopes. It's been supposed to take over since 1996, and I still don't know a single person with an HD set, so maybe I'll win after all.

Thanks, everyone, for reading my rant. Another positive from this whole mess, is that the old DVD's will be cheaper than ever. I can already get stuff like the Fortune Teller Baba Boxed Set from amazon for less than $15.00 . Maybe now, I'll be able to get, say, the Fusion Saga Boxed set for $5.00 .

Alas, we may never see the Saiya-jin and Namek Sagas given a proper region 1 release. I may have to make my own, as samples from stuff I have liscense to, to show Funi how to do it.

For movie 3, for example, we could have the Dragonbax footage, along with the UUc Footage, with the UUc dialouge track, the pioneer dub audio track, the Japanese Audio Track, Steve's subtitles, the Pioneer subtitles, and the edited TV Dub(completely different than the DVD release). It's too bad the Dragonbox cropped the movies =\

And, for the Saiya-jin Saga, for example, episodes 1-4 with Dragonbox footage, the Japanese audio track, the UUc Audio Track, Steve's subtitles, and the origional dub episodes 1-3. Now that would be a great release, would it not? I'd pay more for that than I would 29 episodes worth of cropped footage.