Genre changing?

[Miracles]

I hear a lot of people talk about how Dragonball changed genre of manga?
I am not even sure what this means, is it talking as far as the action [fighting scenes]?

Thanks for any help or sources.

[Dayspring]

I hear a lot of people talk about how Dragonball changed genre of manga?
I am not even sure what this means, is it talking as far as the action [fighting scenes]?

Thanks for any help or sources.

Instead of being a light-hearted fantasy gag-manga, it quickly becomes serious and sci-fi. It's so serious that many people aren't even willing to consider Neko Majin Z as part of the same continuity.

[Dr. Casey]

You know, I've never been able to consider Dragon Ball to be a gag manga even in its earlier phases. I'd consider a gag manga to be more along the lines of Dr. Slump. The Pilaf arc is a lighthearted adventure, but it still takes itself too seriously to be considered an all-out comedy; its humor just isn't pervasive enough. I can see where people are coming from giving it that label for the first Dragon Ball hunt along with the 21st Budokai (Bulma's line in the General Blue arc about 'this being a gag anime' always struck me as being awkward - sorry, Bulma, but you're 20+ episodes too late for that), but it doesn't exactly fit like a glove.

But yeah, what Dayspring said. I also heard Kunzait say once that the series takes a shift to something more akin to 'seinen' during the Buu arc. Not sure what seinen means, but I do see a significant change during Buu. There seems to be more emphasis on the social aspect of the series and more mundane, ordinary things in general (A trait which continues to GT). It's not focused quite as intensely on the fighting or shounen elements as the Cell Saga was, to be certain. It's a lot more mellow and relaxed. I like it. The domesticated nature of late Z and GT is nice. I think the Saiyan arc is probably the most intense and turbulent portion of the series.

[Dayspring]

You know, I've never been able to consider Dragon Ball to be a gag manga even in its earlier phases. I'd consider a gag manga to be more along the lines of Dr. Slump. The Pilaf arc is a lighthearted adventure, but it still takes itself too seriously to be considered an all-out comedy; its humor just isn't pervasive enough.

This may be why people can't accept NMZ. Toriyama uses two kinds of gag manga. Dr. Slump was of the category that is aware it's a gag manga, while DB is the other category. Meanwhile, NMZ is Dr. Slump's category.

[Dr. Casey]

In Neko Majin Z, Uub lives with the Son family and Goku doesn't abandon his wife, right? I more than accept Neko Majin Z if it removes the biggest strike against Goku's character. All hail Neko Majin!

[Dayspring]

In Neko Majin Z, Uub lives with the Son family and Goku doesn't abandon his wife, right? I more than accept Neko Majin Z if it removes the biggest strike against Goku's character. All hail Neko Majin!

Not necessarily, but it implies it, yeah.

[Herms]

(Bulma's line in the General Blue arc about 'this being a gag anime' always struck me as being awkward - sorry, Bulma, but you're 20+ episodes too late for that)

Was that from when Blue's underlings were harrassing her? If so, then in the manga she just refers to the series as being in a shonen magazine.

But yeah, what Dayspring said. I also heard Kunzait say once that the series takes a shift to something more akin to 'seinen' during the Buu arc. Not sure what seinen means, but I do see a significant change during Buu.

Seinen means "young adult" in Japanese(in contrast with shounen/"boy") , and when used in reference to comics refers to comics for that age group. So Kunzait means that the series eventually turns into something seemingly aimed at an older audience (in his opinion). Though I'm pretty sure he says this change happens around the Freeza or Cell story arcs, not just around Boo.

[Dayspring]

(Bulma's line in the General Blue arc about 'this being a gag anime' always struck me as being awkward - sorry, Bulma, but you're 20+ episodes too late for that)

Was that from when Blue's underlings were harrassing her? If so, then in the manga she just refers to the series as being in a shonen magazine.

But yeah, what Dayspring said. I also heard Kunzait say once that the series takes a shift to something more akin to 'seinen' during the Buu arc. Not sure what seinen means, but I do see a significant change during Buu.

Seinen means "young adult" in Japanese(in contrast with shounen/"boy") , and when used in reference to comics refers to comics for that age group. So Kunzait means that the series eventually turns into something seemingly aimed at an older audience (in his opinion). Though I'm pretty sure he says this change happens around the Freeza or Cell story arcs, not just around Boo.

While I consider the whole series shonen, if it did become seinen, wouldn't the Radditz arc be the starting point? Goku's dynamic has changed from goofy kid to goofy family man, while his friends are more mature.

[TheGreatness25]

Here's my take on it. It started off light-hearted and adventurous. But that soon changed. The first real dark moment of Dragon Ball, I think, was when the gang was trapped inside Pilaf's castle with their lives on the line and Goku told the story about his grandfather dying because of a big monster. But after that, all the way through the 21st World Martial Arts Tournament (or Tenkaichi Tournament), it was pretty non-serious. Then the Red Ribbon arc started. And it was still pretty much mild, up until the story about Bora, Upa, and Mercenary Tao. That's where I think the story took a dark twist. Then, all's well that ends well up until the King Piccolo arc. That was very dark actually. Krillin's murder, Goku's vengeful side, the entire backstory to King Piccolo. Then Piccolo Jr. was a little more light-hearted, but still had some dark tone to it. When the series continued with Z, it kicked off with the whole starting revelation that Goku was an alien, etc. The Saiyan arc was dark. Goku was killed, the world was at stake, etc. I'm not going to dive much deeper into it, but the Frieza arc was incredibly dark. And in some ways the series got even darker from there. Majin Buu was slightly more light-hearted than the two Sagas before it, BUT it did have that element of "everyone is dead".

Here's my thing, though. People criticize FUNimation for making Dragon Ball Z (and I stress Z because they made Dragon Ball as mystical and pure as possible, even leaving in the original music) look like a non-stop fighting action cartoon. Well...what is it? I mean, I know that the original doesn't have rock music playing, but it is a really violent cartoon. It's ALL about fighting. It's all about epicness and fighting and blood and massacre, and...you name it, that's what it is. So why are people trying to make it seem like it belongs in some other genre than action? That's what it is. There is no, "Hey! Let's explore and learn and make friends and interact!" in that series like there was in Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball Z only has, "Fate of so-and-so is at stake! We need to fight them! We need to be stronger than them! Let's kick their ass!"

[Dayspring]

Here's my thing, though. People criticize FUNimation for making Dragon Ball Z (and I stress Z because they made Dragon Ball as mystical and pure as possible, even leaving in the original music) look like a non-stop fighting action cartoon. Well...what is it? I mean, I know that the original doesn't have rock music playing, but it is a really violent cartoon. It's ALL about fighting. It's all about epicness and fighting and blood and massacre, and...you name it, that's what it is. So why are people trying to make it seem like it belongs in some other genre than action? That's what it is. There is no, "Hey! Let's explore and learn and make friends and interact!" in that series like there was in Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball Z only has, "Fate of so-and-so is at stake! We need to fight them! We need to be stronger than them! Let's kick their ass!"

While I disagree that Z is only martial arts (there's a shitload of fantasy and sci-fi), even if it were, wouldn't the fact that you consider the Z arcs to be comepletely different from DB show that the manga changed over time?

[TheGreatness25]

Well exactly. I never said it didn't. And I know there's sci-fi and fantasy in it, it is very heavily surrounded on fighting. And not even on martial arts.

[ssjcj]

I see the genre shift as an ever evolving author. You can see how the art style changes, I think that the story themes evolved over time as well.

[Mr. Announcer]

I hear a lot of people talk about how Dragonball changed genre of manga?
I am not even sure what this means, is it talking as far as the action [fighting scenes]?

Thanks for any help or sources.

Sorry, I can't really tell if you're asking how DB changed the shonen genre of manga or how DB changed genres within itself. Everyone seems to have the latter covered so I guess I'll say that even though I'm not deeply familiar with most shonen before DB, I think it was one of the first to blend humor and action the way it did and have such broad appeal beyond the target audience. It's style of characters and storytelling transformed the genre basically, it's the whole reason we have series like Naruto and One Piece today. Sorry if that's not what you're asking but that's what "genre changing" has referred to in certain discussions of DB I've seen.

In Neko Majin Z, Uub lives with the Son family and Goku doesn't abandon his wife, right? I more than accept Neko Majin Z if it removes the biggest strike against Goku's character. All hail Neko Majin!

I concur.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Dragon Ball is a light-hearted fantasy manga. It's not exactly a gag manga, but it's based on martial arts. I see the story however shifting to a darker tone around the Piccolo Daimao Saga, what with there being a new demon king getting his underlings to kill all the martial artists in the world and 4 main characters dying in the saga. It became a lot more serious at that point. The Tao Pai Pai part in the Red Ribbon Saga was subtly darker, but it's darkest point was definitely in the Piccolo Daimao Saga for me.

Dragon Ball Z is a mixture of martial arts, action, fantasy and sci-fi. Unlike in Dragon Ball where all the villains were from Earth (with the exception of Piccolo Daimao, who was assumed to be a demon), the Saiyans, Freeza & Majin Boo were intergalactic warriors from outer space. The Androids and Cell were incredibly powerful robots. You can see how the villains in Dragon Ball are different to the villains in Dragon Ball Z.

Also, the art style changes from Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Z. The art style in Dragon Ball is relaxed and light-hearted. The art style shifts in Dragon Ball Z to being more defined and hard-lined.

But overall, Dragon Ball is basically an martial arts action manga, in both DB and DBZ.

[Olivier Hague]

I see the genre shift as an ever evolving author.

I think the tantô changes played a big part in that "shift".

[MCDaveG]

Well exactly. I never said it didn't. And I know there's sci-fi and fantasy in it, it is very heavily surrounded on fighting. And not even on martial arts.

I don't see real martial arts in Z, there is power & strength. The chorus in Spanish version of Chala Head Chala definates it well, Luz, Fuego, Destruction..... Blow, Fire, Destruction, no more martial arts trough Z, no more technical fights..... One reason why I really like Dragon Ball much more then Z.

[Kunzait_83]

b

[Herms]

It delves into the sort of subject matter and a level of depravity in it's villains that your average shonen manga typically tends to go out of it’s way to either veer itself away from entirely, or at the very least not dwell upon for very much whenever possible; Toriyama manga all the more so (this was the same man who gave the world Dr. Slump, Cowa!, and Go! Go! Ackman, for Christ's sake).

What, the same Go! Go! Ackman series that stars a devil (who dresses like a Nazi on one of the title pages) who goes around killing humans so that he can feed their souls to the great demon king? Yeah, it's surprising that the author of that could also create depraved villians :P.

[Kunzait_83]

b

[Dayspring]

It delves into the sort of subject matter and a level of depravity in it's villains that your average shonen manga typically tends to go out of it’s way to either veer itself away from entirely, or at the very least not dwell upon for very much whenever possible; Toriyama manga all the more so (this was the same man who gave the world Dr. Slump, Cowa!, and Go! Go! Ackman, for Christ's sake).

What, the same Go! Go! Ackman series that stars a devil (who dresses like a Nazi on one of the title pages) who goes around killing humans so that he can feed their souls to the great demon king? Yeah, it's surprising that the author of that could also create depraved villians .

Alright, not the best example in the world, but you get the idea. I haven't cracked Ackman in a very, very, very, VERY long time, in case you couldn't tell.

Just to add fuel to the fire: Toriyama also wrote Lady Red and submitted art to Bitch's Life.