Kai Episode 13 (27 June 2009)

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Man, that trumpet piece that played after Vegeta killed Nappa instantly reminded me of the theme to The Godfather. Classic.

...Damn you beat me to it. I thought the same thing when I heard the trumpet too. It felt so perfect!

btw, if anyone is interested I took out the time watermark in both images posted. These should make better desktops if you guys want them.
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5507/g ... etakai.jpg
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3367/kaidesktop.jpg

[Hujio]

For anyone that's interested, we have our review up on Kanzentai for the thirteenth episode of DragonBall Kai. I hope everyone enjoys it!

DBK Episode 013, "This is the Kaio-ken!! A Battle to the Limit: Goku vs Vegeta"

Credits:
Manga Comparison: Herms
Original Broadcast Comparison: Hujio
Music/Voice Performance Comparison: DBW

[The Tori-bot]

EDIT: Ignore this. >.>

[Vino]

For anyone that's interested, we have our review up on Kanzentai for the thirteenth episode of DragonBall Kai. I hope everyone enjoys it!

DBK Episode 013, "This is the Kaio-ken!! A Battle to the Limit: Goku vs Vegeta"

Credits:
Manga Comparison: Herms
Original Broadcast Comparison: Hujio
Music/Voice Performance Comparison: DBW

Oh I've been waiting for this, thanks. Excellent job as always, though I was wondering why you didn't include next episode's new shots like you did with episode 9 review. Are you sure that none of Vegeta's powering up scenes were reanimated? I think him going to release his power is new as well, since I can tell by the new wind effect.

[Rod]

I was just reading Kanzentai's reviews (awesome BTW) I noticed that the widescreen footage has a little bit more image at the sides eve thought it's cropped, how come?

I still can't believe it took me this long to notice

[Senzu_Bean]

I really like more Kaioken color in Kai than in the original. But am I the only one to think Kai animation is far inferior than the original? Just take a look at Kanzentai's comparisons between the two and look how awful Kai screenshots are.

[Vino]

I really like more Kaioken color in Kai than in the original. But am I the only one to think Kai animation is far inferior than the original? Just take a look at Kanzentai's comparisons between the two and look how awful Kai screenshots are.

Its not the animation, its the art, they retrace the same frame and color it, making it standout than the other scenes. I actually think that some of the frames in the latest Kai episode are pretty good, and next episode scenes look good too.

[Jordan]

I was just reading Kanzentai's reviews (awesome BTW) I noticed that the widescreen footage has a little bit more image at the sides eve thought it's cropped, how come?

I still can't believe it took me this long to notice

I think the extra part of the image on the sides has always been there. So when they decided to crop it to widescreen, bringing in that part of the image meant they didn't have to take away from the top and bottom quite as much as they would have. I don't know why that part was there to begin with, though. I could be wrong, that's just what I've read about it.

[Hujio]

EDIT: Ignore this. >.>

OK. Why?

Excellent job as always, though I was wondering why you didn't include next episode's new shots like you did with episode 9 review.

I included those in episode 9 because that was the first time we saw any re-animated footage in the next episode preview and the majority of it was re-animated. This time there were only a few, and they'll all be included in the next episode, so I figured they'd be covered then.

Are you sure that none of Vegeta's powering up scenes were reanimated? I think him going to release his power is new as well, since I can tell by the new wind effect.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, because I included a shot from Vegeta's power up scene and even discussed the new wind effects. You must have missed it.

Part of the scene where Vegeta powers up and wind whips toward Goku has been re-animated. Interestingly, the wind has been faded and is much more transparent in DragonBall Kai.

I was just reading Kanzentai's reviews (awesome BTW) I noticed that the widescreen footage has a little bit more image at the sides eve thought it's cropped, how come?

I think the extra part of the image on the sides has always been there. So when they decided to crop it to widescreen, bringing in that part of the image meant they didn't have to take away from the top and bottom quite as much as they would have. I don't know why that part was there to begin with, though. I could be wrong, that's just what I've read about it.

Yes, it's always been there. Episodes were not photographed in a true 4:3 aspect ratio, but a little wider. This was done to ensure that things wouldn't show up on screen that weren't supposed to be there, such as the edge of the cel paint. Here's an example from our "Animation Process" page on Kanzentai which will hopefully help clear things up a little.



Here's what the various boxes represent:
Red box - Represents the amount of image that was originally photographed onto 16mm film; this is the original archival footage.
Orange box - Represents the master copy that is made from the 16mm film, which is re-framed to capture a smaller amount of image. This is what you'd see on TV.
Yellow box - Represents the new telecine master used for DVD releases, like the Dragon Boxes.

For DragonBall Kai, like they did for the Dragon Boxes, they went back and used the original 16mm film (red box) as their source material. You'll notice that it's much wider than what was originally seen on TV or even on the Dragon Boxes. By using this source they can make it wider and reduce the amount of material cropped from the top and bottom. Although FUNimation didn't have access to the original 16mm film, they basically did the same thing with their widescreen season sets.

[Rod]

It's that over scan thing right? I've heard about that, but never really understood. Thanks Hujio

[Vino]

I'm not sure what you're talking about, because I included a shot from Vegeta's power up scene and even discussed the new wind effects. You must have missed it.

[VegettoEX]

It's that over scan thing right? I've heard about that, but never really understood. Thanks Hujio

Eh... not really. In terms of explanations from FUNimation's camp, that was an out-and-out nonsensical justification, akin to saying that you never fully enjoyed a hamburger because you were eating it on a hot-dog bun because FUNimation never had an opportunity to give it to you on a hamburger bun before but here why don't you try eating it on a bagel?

Stuff that would have been outside the safe zone BUT STILL BROADCAST still wouldn't have had any of the outside "errors" (not an accurate description, but whatever) like the edges of the incomplete painting.

[Hujio]

It's that over scan thing right? I've heard about that, but never really understood. Thanks Hujio

Yeah, this isn't footage hidden by overscanning from TVs. This is footage that was never actually included on the original master or DVD telecines.

@Vino: Sorry my friend, but those are not re-animated or redrawn.

[Vino]

Are you sure? I double checked, and the wind effect + the sky are a tad different..

I might be wrong though..

[The Tori-bot]

EDIT: Ignore this. >.>

OK. Why?

I accidentally put it in the Episode 13 thread when it was meant for the Episode 12 thread.

[MarcFBR]

Are you sure? I double checked, and the wind effect + the sky are a tad different..

I might be wrong though..

Yes, because comparing 2 different frames, from 2 different bootlegs is the single most accurate way to say if it's the same or not.

Thumbs up to you sir, for clearing up Hujio's mistake.

[Vino]

Are you sure? I double checked, and the wind effect + the sky are a tad different..

I might be wrong though..

Yes, because comparing 2 different frames, from 2 different bootlegs is the single most accurate way to say if it's the same or not.

Thumbs up to you sir, for clearing up Hujio's mistake.

Quit being a smartass, I wanted to clarify visually, who cares from where I took it.

[MarcFBR]

Quit being a smartass, I wanted to clarify visually, who cares from where I took it.

I'm not being a smartass, you showed him good.

Comparing a bootleg of DVD masters made nearly a decade ago and completely unremastered to more modern ones and pointing out how you double checked and that it's clearly redrawn. Your insight amazes me.

Thank you sir, thank you. We need more people like you to take Hujio down a peg. Arguing it's not redrawn because it looks like it might be the same thing.

Damn you Hujio, damn you and your villiany!

[Vino]

Quit being a smartass, I wanted to clarify visually, who cares from where I took it.

I'm not being a smartass, you showed him good.

Comparing a bootleg of DVD masters made nearly a decade ago and completely unremastered to more modern ones and pointing out how you double checked and that it's clearly redrawn. Your insight amazes me.

Thank you sir, thank you. We need more people like you to take Hujio down a peg. Arguing it's not redrawn because it looks like it might be the same thing.

Damn you Hujio, damn you and your villiany!

Haha oh wow.

Yeah, clearly DBKai quality is so different to the older one made a decade ago that its even stupid to compare them!

Silly me, how I didn't not see that!

Sure mate, whatever helps you sleep at night

[Hujio]

Are you sure? I double checked, and the wind effect + the sky are a tad different..

I might be wrong though..

Well, in this case, you're wrong. The only part of Vegeta's entire power up scene that was re-animated was the one I noted. Everything else was just remastered, which as we've seen for 13 episodes now, changed the colors. The only difference in the wind between these two shots is that it has been slightly blurred together in DragonBall Kai. Just compare it to a scene that was actually re-animated. The difference in clarity is quite clear, I think. Compare the wind in all four screen shots and tell me which one looks new and updated. Also compare the aura around Vegeta... which one looks new and updated? Maybe certain things like that just stand out visually more to me than other people, but these are the things I use to judge whether something has been re-animated or not.




And by the way, source material does matter in these cases.