Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

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Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:51 pm

Episode #0208 (download MP3) (rss feed)
86:13; 64 kbps, mono; 39.4 MB

Episode #0208! VegettoEX, Meri, and Julian discuss the latest news about "DragonBall Kai" before we bring in some friends to talk about specific aspects of the licensing news. Hujio joins us to give a recap on what "Kai" is in the first place and its domestic name change, Kendamu joins us to talk from the manga fan perspective, while Gozar joins us to talk from the dub fan perspective. We do not have a whole lot to go on just yet, but fandom seems braced for all the extra attention coming its way. Referenced sites:
Go ahead and grab it. Big thanks to godofchaos for hosting the never-thought-we'd-get-there *two-hundred-eight* episodes, now.

Oh snapz, we're talking all about Z Kai!

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Apologies for my own mic levels during the non-topic recording segments (majority of the show is fine). I (just Mike... Meri and Julian are fine) blew another XLR cable (somehow) between the test recording and then going "live". I'll happily accept any donations to get us some quality cords, here. God damn. I've got the touch. I've got the power. OF DEATH.

w0rd.
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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:21 pm

FUNimation's current model is 12-14 episodes for each 'Season X Part X', so I suspect we shall not see the sets split up into story arcs like with the Orange Bricks. FUNimation can pull the 'dick move' (my preference is to call it the 'magical feeling' of having to wait for Christmas morning to open one's presents) and make the first set 12 episodes (ending with the death of Nappa) so as to have fans have to wait for the fight with Gokû and Vegeta (heck, if I were line producer down there it's what I'd do). I don't suspect we'll see any less or more than twelve or fourteen per release, however. How they're going to split up seasons, I have no clue (if it ain't One Piece each season is two parts long).

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by MarcFBR » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:23 pm

Yuugi said it basically.

Especially since the price listed for Kai's DVDs are exactly in line with the current Funi box model. I'm expecting either 7 or 8 boxes.
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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:25 pm

Fair point to make. Expecting a logical break-point in domestic anime DVD releases should never really be expected. I don't know how I feel about that, though, since a random collection of 12 episodes doesn't make as much sense as a more-carefully-selected group... but it's more bang for the buck.

*shrugs*
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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:10 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Fair point to make. Expecting a logical break-point in domestic anime DVD releases should never really be expected. I don't know how I feel about that, though, since a random collection of 12 episodes doesn't make as much sense as a more-carefully-selected group... but it's more bang for the buck.

*shrugs*
To make a parallel, that's essentially the position we're in for One Piece, at times. The first 'season' is considered the first 53 episodes. Being that FUNimation now works in 12-14 episode two disc sets, we got fourteen on the fourth of these sets (Season One 'Fourth Voyage'). So cool, we got a year's worth of the anime (plus one) in four sets, ending with the Straw Hat's leaving Loguetown. The end of the canon East Blue story arcs.

Now, Season Two is just...well, when FUNimation first announced the property they announced episodes 144-206 (62 episodes) as their 'Season Three'. Obviously, 143 episodes devided into sets of 13 made for 11 sets. Season One was four sets, and as was recently confirmed as such in the May solicitations, Season Two would be seven sets. Episodes 54-143 makes for a 89 episode season, fourteen DVDs in total in comparison to Season One's eight. To compensate, Season Two First Voyage and Season Two Fifth Voyage were twelve episodes. Season Two Sixth Voyage will be episodes 117-130, fourteen episodes, so as to make sure the last episode of the Alabasta arc does not bleed into a 'perfect' thirteen episodes of filler for Season Two Seventh Voyage two disc. Had both Fifth and Sixth been thirteen Fifth would've ended in the middle of a fight, I believe, so your example comes up there (although you spoke more on a 'arc ending' scale).

When Season Three was airing on Cartoon Network in the US, it got canned about 24-25 episodes in. CN Australia kept up airing 143-195, 195 is the final episode of the Skypeia story. Funny enough, 143-195 is...you guessed it, 52 episodes. Easily enough for four sets of thirteen. But wait, about about 196-206, the other first ten of the eleven episode G8 filler arc? If we take all eleven episodes of that arc and make a DVD release out of them that's a record low eleven episodes! What's more, it was with episode 207 (the first episode of the Davy Back Fight story) that One Piece began airing in widescreen HD.

So now we have this big question: do we consider 196-206 a 11 episode Season Three Fifth Voyage so as to avoid having a switch from full screen to wide? If we consider 207+ Season Four we can say "With Season Four and up, the series is in wide screen" without any dirt on our hands. The next big question is: how long is Season Four going to be? The story litterally continues from 207 to 325 as the same over all story before a real break in the story (like between the Saiyan and Namek arcs). This CP9 'saga' contains the Davy Back Fight (a small mini-arc before the actual CP9 story) that one couldn't just set aside as it's own full-on season.

What's more, what happens when we reach the point where FUNimation wants to begin putting out full season sets? Unlike with their other series' (Sgt. Frog, D.Gray-man, etc.) that art split into 24-26 episode seasons we're looking at 53, 89, and 118 episode seasons. Sure, DVD is coming to the end of its era and likely any future releases will be seen on Blu-ray, but even those discs have their limits, espicially when it comes to the native HD and wide screen episodes. By FUNimation's rules, we're looking at a lot of episodes and a lot of discs for one full season.


Anyhow, that's the industry we're looking at, espicially for a new series like Dragon Ball Kai that has to go through the same motions other FUNimation titles do these days (season parts, full season releases...or, if you're previous FMA or YYH releases, half-season sets then full seasons).

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by LeprikanGT » Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:59 pm

Even if they were going word for word with the Japanese script, give a Dub fan a bone and give me the one number difference and stick with '9000'. lol


Sabat purposely changed the line in BL so IDK how its going to pan out.

But a newer script WILL keep me more interested so it won't be like watching the same thing over. I kind of feel bad about having to almost 'force' myself to watch the rest of he DBox 1.

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by penguintruth » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:11 pm

I really hate that they're utilizing the "insert song" so often in Kai. Insert songs should be a special treat. But at least they aren't overusing them (well, maybe the Freeza song) like some of the BGM tracks. I just plain don't like the music in this series as much as the stuff in Z. It doesn't feel natural at all. It's way too video game-ish.

Recently I've (mostly) come to the perspective that Kendamu has about the dub, after all my bluster. While I'd love to have a dub that suits my own tastes in the voice casting, I should instead hope for a more accurate script above all else, because even if I'm not watching it, the dub fans will now be able to watch the show with an accurate script, and so both myself and the dub fans will be on the same page.

When will Funimation stop calling things "seasons" if they don't appear on television that way? Do they know what "seasons" of television shows mean?

The Dragon Box takes precedence over Kai with me, because I've watched the series several times, and prefer a lot of things in Z, even though I appreciate the faster pace in parts of the story. If I want to skip through filler, I have a fast-forward button. I see no reason to collect a glorified clip show, anyway, unless Funimation makes it worth my while with a better dub. If I do actually get Kai sets, it'll be for the Namek episodes, since that's an arc that was in desperate need of compression.

Schemmel definitely has a "Saturday morning cartoon tough guy" quality to him, in and out of battle. The script doesn't help it, but it's still not a great voice for the character. He just doesn't capture that childlike nature, not even as well as Peter Kelamis did.

Don't equate the Japanese cast with the English cast, because you make it seem like they actually put thought into casting the dub. I don't care how iconic they are, because there's nothing iconic about failure. A bunch of failures should get to stay around just because they've been in the roles a long time? Absurd.

But, like I said, it's fine if you want the same cast to return. I'd just like for the Japanese and English dub cast fans to be on the same page with the script. Since it's not even a given that I'll be collecting Kai, it doesn't affect me that much, but as an anime fan, I like to see all anime treated with respect, regardless.

It should be brought to the same standard as the other Funimation dubs. They've improved over the years, there's no reason to take a step back.
Last edited by penguintruth on Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by ShadowDude112 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:13 pm

I thought 508 was the magic number. Am I wrong or were you brain dead?

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by Herms » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:19 pm

ShadowDude112 wrote:I thought 508 was the magic number. Am I wrong or were you brain dead?
For anime episodes? Yeah, it's DB=153, Z=291, GT=64. Then there's 519 manga chapters (520 counting the Trunks side-story).

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by ShadowDude112 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:21 pm

Herms wrote:
ShadowDude112 wrote:I thought 508 was the magic number. Am I wrong or were you brain dead?
For anime episodes? Yeah, it's DB=153, Z=291, GT=64. Then there's 519 manga chapters (520 counting the Trunks side-story).
Oh hahaha I forgot about the manga.

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:28 pm

Herms wrote:
ShadowDude112 wrote:I thought 508 was the magic number. Am I wrong or were you brain dead?
For anime episodes? Yeah, it's DB=153, Z=291, GT=64. Then there's 519 manga chapters (520 counting the Trunks side-story).
And in a year or so, it'll be 607. ;)

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by OutlawTorn » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:04 am

penguintruth wrote:When will Funimation stop calling things "seasons" if they don't appear on television that way? Do they know what "seasons" of television shows mean?
Sure, a label of "Volume One" etc. would have been more accurate for how they're releasing the sets, but when it comes to television material, it is far more common to see sets released as "seasons" than volumes or whatever terminology you may prefer. It's actually more annoying for me when a story changes medium, let's say from television to comic, and the "season x" label is applied to the comic iteration.

In terms of Kai, we don't know if this will be like how the home release of DBZ season three preceded the broadcast debut or if Kai will even see broadcast in North America. For all we know, the Kai season labels could be accurate.
And in a year or so, it'll be 607. ;)
But does it really count when it is essentially just an edited dub of their original production?

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:48 am

OutlawTorn wrote:
And in a year or so, it'll be 607. ;)
But does it really count when it is essentially just an edited dub of their original production?
I'd say it does. Like Josh said: two completely different experiences.

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by Dogasu » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:20 am

I really don't like the tone that both Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai had in regards to the fans who believed that Kai was going to end after 50 episodes. It wasn't a case of us being gullible and just believing anything we read on the Internet; we had legitimate reasons to believe that it was stopping after Freeza. The DVDs stopping at 50 episodes, the fact that the last DVD only has two episodes instead of the standard three, the fact that none of the promotional materials for the show showed anything past Freeza, the fact that a new Digimon show is coming out and had, in the past, traditionally taken the Sunday 9:00am slot...what ELSE were we supposed to think?

I think what's more likely is that it was originally planned to be 50 episodes long but was extended to its current episode count after it proved to be so successful. The fact that Videl's voice actor recently acted as if the idea of doing the Cell arc wasn't anything that's been confirmed yet seems to support that theory.


Also, one thing I'm surprised you guys didn't bring up is the fact that FUNimation is going to be releasing Kai and the Dragon Boxes at the same time. I wonder what effects, if any, Kai will have on the Dragon Box releases. Will FUNimation release the two at the same time? Or will they cancel the Dragon Boxes if Kai ends up doing much better sales-wise?

As for the show's name change...I'm more surprised that they kept the "Kai" part, really. The average fan in North America is going to look at that title and think it's some brand new series starring that blue catfish dude living on that tiny planet, not that it's some refreshed version of the original DBZ. If they were going to change the name of the show, they probably should have gone with something like "Dragon Ball Z Renewed" or "Dragon Ball Z Refreshed" (or "Dragon Ball Z Abridged" :wink: ) instead of "Dragon Ball Z Kai."

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by linkdude20002001 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:53 am

I feel the same way as Meri. I'm actually more exited for the English dub of Kai than I am of just Kai itself. I guess I'm dub-curious too. Lol. I usually like English dubs as much as or almost as much as the original. Except for Honey and Clover; I can't stand that they call everyone by their first names.

I'd definately prefer to watch it in English as long as the script and voices don't bother me. That means they need to get different voice actors for young Gohan and Freeza!

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by B » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:03 am

Dogasu wrote:I really don't like the tone that both Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai had in regards to the fans who believed that Kai was going to end after 50 episodes. It wasn't a case of us being gullible and just believing anything we read on the Internet; we had legitimate reasons to believe that it was stopping after Freeza. The DVDs stopping at 50 episodes, the fact that the last DVD only has two episodes instead of the standard three,
Yeah, what was up with that? Did they fix this with the new information, or is one random volume going to have two episodes, while the rest after it will still have three?
Dogasu wrote:the fact that a new Digimon show is coming out and had, in the past, traditionally taken the Sunday 9:00am slot...what ELSE were we supposed to think?
Wait, a sixth series was confirmed? It's past rumor status now?

(EDIT: ... In an effort to proofread this, I realize I honestly do not know whether "past" or "passed" is the correct term I want.)

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by MarcFBR » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:08 am

B wrote:Wait, a sixth series was confirmed? It's past rumor status now?
No, it was specifically referring to the heavy rumors of a sixth series, and the fact that Digimon always had the same timeslot, which is currently where Kai is.
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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:57 am

Dogasu wrote:I really don't like the tone that both Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai had in regards to the fans who believed that Kai was going to end after 50 episodes. It wasn't a case of us being gullible and just believing anything we read on the Internet; we had legitimate reasons to believe that it was stopping after Freeza. The DVDs stopping at 50 episodes, the fact that the last DVD only has two episodes instead of the standard three, the fact that none of the promotional materials for the show showed anything past Freeza, the fact that a new Digimon show is coming out and had, in the past, traditionally taken the Sunday 9:00am slot...what ELSE were we supposed to think?
We took just as much issue with the "it's going to be 100 episodes" as we did the "it's going to be 50 episodes". Each of them had evidence in their direction, yet no-one in any official capacity had stated a single thing about them. Each number was treated equally as "rumor". In fact, I personally took more issue with all of the "mainstream" sites (Anime on DVD, Anime News Network, etc.) consistently calling out the "planned for 100 episodes" when it had no basis at all than I did the "50 episodes" claim much later on.
Dogasu wrote:Also, one thing I'm surprised you guys didn't bring up is the fact that FUNimation is going to be releasing Kai and the Dragon Boxes at the same time. I wonder what effects, if any, Kai will have on the Dragon Box releases. Will FUNimation release the two at the same time? Or will they cancel the Dragon Boxes if Kai ends up doing much better sales-wise?
This was brought up several times during the episode, specifically with Kendamu and Gozar. They were both asked about their current purchases (which include Dragon Box sets) and how they, as different types of fans, will react to having multiple copies on the market. Kendamu stated that as a manga fan he will be placing priority on the Kai releases, while Gozar stated that he's FUNimation's bitch and will buy everything.
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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by Hujio » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:22 pm

Dogasu wrote:I really don't like the tone that both Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai had in regards to the fans who believed that Kai was going to end after 50 episodes. It wasn't a case of us being gullible and just believing anything we read on the Internet; we had legitimate reasons to believe that it was stopping after Freeza. The DVDs stopping at 50 episodes, the fact that the last DVD only has two episodes instead of the standard three, the fact that none of the promotional materials for the show showed anything past Freeza, the fact that a new Digimon show is coming out and had, in the past, traditionally taken the Sunday 9:00am slot...what ELSE were we supposed to think?
What I took issue with were people saying "when Kai ends at 50". It was just irritating to see people take something that was a rumor, and pass it off as truth, especially when their basis was another rumor. "Toriyama wanted to end the series after Freeza anyway." Both are rumors, and nothing more than that. Period. Kind of like Mike said though, it was more of a tone directed at the internet as a whole, not just individuals.

Also, I never bought the whole "the DVDs stopped at 50 episodes", because that's what they do all the time with DVD announcements of currently broadcast shows. They pick an arbitrary number that's far enough ahead that it won't conflict with anything, and 50 was just a nice round number. This argument really started back in July when the home releases were announced, and I said the same thing back then. I'm even saying the same thing now that they've announced 99 episodes. It's another nice number, that will most likely change. Just knowing Toei and how they do things, they don't plan that far in advance. They're basically winging this whole thing and making a lot of money at the same time.

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Re: Episode #0208 (07 February 2010)

Post by Herms » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:36 pm

Dogasu wrote:I really don't like the tone that both Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai had in regards to the fans who believed that Kai was going to end after 50 episodes. It wasn't a case of us being gullible and just believing anything we read on the Internet; we had legitimate reasons to believe that it was stopping after Freeza.
The problem was that many people were treating the "50 episodes" thing as a fact. While there were certain things that suggested it might be the case, even taken collectively they weren't anywhere near strong enough to justify how widespread and seriously believed the rumor was.
The DVDs stopping at 50 episodes, the fact that the last DVD only has two episodes instead of the standard three,
That can easily be explained by it being a tentative schedule due to it still being undetermined how many episodes of Kai there would be. The DVD with only two episodes is odd, but not enough to assume that’s where the show would be ending.
the fact that none of the promotional materials for the show showed anything past Freeza,
It's logical that they wouldn't be advertising things that wouldn't be happening on the show for over a year. It’s also possible that they weren’t sure just how long Kai would run at the beginning. They wouldn’t know how well Kai would do, after all. But not committing to do the post-Freeza stuff isn’t the same as specifically planning not to do them. It should also be said that in merchandising, many figures of post-Freeza characters have already come out under the Kai label.
the fact that a new Digimon show is coming out and had, in the past, traditionally taken the Sunday 9:00am slot...what ELSE were we supposed to think?
Granted I don't follow Digimon as closely as I do DB, but I don't believe that this new Digimon series has been officially confirmed yet. It may turn out to be real yet, but the lack of news about it so far made it clear that it couldn't possibly be debuting in time to replace Kai after episode 50. If it were, there would have beens ads and other promotional material for it appearing long before now. Maybe it was plausible when the rumor first appeared, but people kept believing it long after it became a logistical near-impossibility. And assuming that a new Digimon series would take Kai’s place because that’s the timeslot Digimon has had in the past makes little sense. Kai itself isn’t running in the Wednesday timeslot that DB ran in for over 10 years, so why think that the Digimon timeslot is sacred?
I think what's more likely is that it was originally planned to be 50 episodes long but was extended to its current episode count after it proved to be so successful. The fact that Videl's voice actor recently acted as if the idea of doing the Cell arc wasn't anything that's been confirmed yet seems to support that theory.
I think Videl’s voice actress’s blog is evidence for the opposite, actually. If there had ever been definite plans for Kai to not go past the Freeza arc, you’d think she would mention them when talking about the possibility of her playing Videl. Like the DVD schedule and the advertising, it makes more sense to view it as uncertainty over long Kai would run, depending on its success and other factors, rather than as a definitive plan that Kai end at a certain point. Ultimately, you’d need much stronger evidence to argue that Toei ever specifically planned to end the series after 50 episodes, or to even say it’s a likely possibility.

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