Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Koitsukai]

What a crazy scene... Freeza is giving orders to Bojack, and Bojack is following those orders!!... and Gohan goes straight for Freeza, while leaving the much stronger Bojack alone...

[Mr Perfect Cell]

Maybe Frieza trained in hell in this timeline too but got too cocky to go gold which is why Gohan beat him.

[Grimlock]

Confirmation that the Kaioshin of South is the strongest, but only out of the four.

There were, of course, people who thought he was stronger than even Dai Kaioshin, which shouldn't be the case. And it isn't, as we can see. Glad we can finally put that to rest.

[Koitsukai]

Was that ever in dispute, though?
Moro arc and filler episode aside, it was SKS the cause of Buff Buu who was said to be even stronger than Super Buu. DKS actually fought and survived Buff Buu and managed to reduce his power greatly.
Whoever thought otherwise wasn't paying any attention, DKS fought Buu+SKS and pushed "them" to the point Buu needed to absorb him.

[LightBing]

Based on the manga it's South > All other Kaioshins > current Kaioshin. The strongest and the weakest is specifically highlighted, why should we think otherwise?

Boo could have absorbed Dai Kaioshin for a number of reasons besides power. After all it absorbed Piccolo for "brains".
The most likely reason was for control, since Boo changed with absorptions. It's pretty much implied:

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.2-7
Kaioshin: “In m…my era there were five Kaioshins…until they were defeated by the Majin Boo that the wizard Babidi created…I was the youngest and most powerless one, but I somehow survived, with only heavy injuries…But the other four fell to Boo…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo….. “
Elder Kaioshin: …And he became that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes…Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and gentle Dai-Kaioshin….The Majin Boo that Bibidi created was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t handle, but by absorbing the Dai-Kaioshin, he somehow become controllable…. “
Elder Kaioshin: “…So he was finally completed…Which is to say…that this current…small Majin Boo…is the initial…mo…most troublesome one…”
Kaioshin: “….Yes…the heart which he gained by going so far as to lower his power through absorption(s)…has returned once again to the way it was…he has no self-control whatsoever…he has become evil itself…”

The above is all the information provide regarding the Kaioshins, everything else is speculation.

[Grimlock]

Was that ever in dispute, though?

Yes, that was always in dispute. Plus the above post.

Sure, the way Kaioshin of East said it could imply Dai Kaioshin to be involved. But I always thought he was excluding Dai Kaioshin, for obvious reasons. He is one step above them in the hierarchy, it should be expected that he should be above them all in power level as well, even if "subvert the expectations" is common practice in this franchise. Anyways, like I said, glad this is finally over.

[Koitsukai]

Was that ever in dispute, though?

Yes, that was always in dispute. Plus the above post.

Sure, the way Kaioshin of East said it could imply Dai Kaioshin to be involved. But I always thought he was excluding Dai Kaioshin, for obvious reasons. He is one step above them in the hierarchy, it should be expected that he should be above them all in power level as well, even if "subvert the expectations" is common practice in this franchise. Anyways, like I said, glad this is finally over.

Right, there's a "boss" to them, and the "boss" stood up to that other KS fused with Buu. He would've died otherwise. Buu kills, and only absorbs when he is against the wall*, that's his thing, that's what Vegito exploited, that's a major character trait used to move the story forward. So, if DKS forced Buff Buu to absorb him then it means Buu + SKS aren't enough to take him out.

*The filler messes it up because Buu beats SKS but absorbs him anyway, but in the manga you can interpret SKS = Kid Buu, and Buff Buu = DKS, thus DKS > SKS.

In any case, the Moro arc proved that at his peak he was waaay above every KS, including Zamasu. Even after losing his magic, he is still too strong to die at the hands of Buff Buu.

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t see any issue with thinking that Grand Kaioshin could be the strongest among the five Kaioshins based on the level of his importance, but the original dialogue [at least going by Herms’ translation] does suggest he is being considered among the five Kaioshins with whom South Kaioshin was being compared with, unless you think there is a fifth Kaioshin we don’t know about.

[LightBing]

It's ironic how people give him such importance because he's the Dai Kaioshin, when the whole arc and Dragon Ball in general disregards titles and Gods.

Shortly before the part we're talking about the Elder Kai appeared, with Goku doing the mistake a lot of people are making. It resulted him in blasting him in the face because: "amazing must mean power". Turns out he had a completely different ability, he wasn't duper strong just because he was a Kaioshin.

That said I'm not using information from the Super manga. Don't remember if anything might contradict the original manga.

[Koitsukai]

It's not about their titles, it's about what was accomplished. He fought, offscreen, the strongest KS fused with Majin Buu and got himself absorbed, not killed like the other two KS.
Was it due to his leftover magic? his brute strenght? doesn't matter, Buu failed to kill him even with the assist of SKS's power. The title is just there to say after the fact: "right, yeah, it makes sense coming from the guy above the gods".

The Moro arc expands on him a little bit putting him way ahead of every other KS in the multiverse.

[LightBing]

But Kaioshin literally says who is the strongest and the weakest.
It's also heavily implied he was absorbed to be easier to control; Bibidi was calling the shots at the time. Even if the latter wasn't there Boo was shown to absorb people for reasons other than power: Piccolo.

Only taking the source material into account it's pretty clear.

If you add other sources, sure. Super constantly re-imagined the original manga.

[Koitsukai]

But Kaioshin literally says who is the strongest and the weakest.
It's also heavily implied he was absorbed to be easier to control; Bibidi was calling the shots at the time. Even if the latter wasn't there Boo was shown to absorb people for reasons other than power: Piccolo.

Only taking the source material into account it's pretty clear.

If you add other sources, sure. Super constantly re-imagined the original manga.

Whatever is said is superseded by the actual events.
Buu absorbed Piccolo as part of his plan to surpass Gohan, to isolate him, to use his brains because Gotenks was too dumb, and also as a back up plan in the event the power boost failed and he needed something else, like he actually ended up needing.
It falls into the "against the wall" cathegory that prompts Buu to absorb people, Gohan was too powerful to just absorb Gotenks, Piccolo was absorbed as a mean to beat Gohan.
Buu absorbing DKS because Bibidi said so is your headcanon, I don't even think it's the takeway from the filler scene, Bibidi had no idea what to expect.

If Buu failed to beat SKS, and then the much stronger Buu (SKS-absorbed) fails to beat DKS... wouldn't you agree that Kid Buu would have a tougher time against DKS than he did vs SKS?

Other sources like DBS come from the horses mouth and is valid to use to shed some light, because it's actually consistent with how DKS performed vs Buu and SKS.

[Hugo Boss]

Grand Kaioshin capabilities are a bit confusing in Super though. When he fought Moro at full power, he had no means of beating him without sealing his magic and sacrificing most of his god power in the process. Despite that, Oob didn’t inherit 100% of his god power and was able to feed Goku with enough energy to enable him to activate a level of Ultra Instinct that far outstripped Moro. So, where was all that power when he fought Moro millions of years before? Just a thought.

[LightBing]

But Kaioshin literally says who is the strongest and the weakest.
It's also heavily implied he was absorbed to be easier to control; Bibidi was calling the shots at the time. Even if the latter wasn't there Boo was shown to absorb people for reasons other than power: Piccolo.

Only taking the source material into account it's pretty clear.

If you add other sources, sure. Super constantly re-imagined the original manga.

Whatever is said is superseded by the actual events.
Buu absorbed Piccolo as part of his plan to surpass Gohan, to isolate him, to use his brains because Gotenks was too dumb, and also as a back up plan in the event the power boost failed and he needed something else, like he actually ended up needing.
It falls into the "against the wall" cathegory that prompts Buu to absorb people, Gohan was too powerful to just absorb Gotenks, Piccolo was absorbed as a mean to beat Gohan.
Buu absorbing DKS because Bibidi said so is your headcanon, I don't even think it's the takeway from the filler scene, Bibidi had no idea what to expect.

If Buu failed to beat SKS, and then the much stronger Buu (SKS-absorbed) fails to beat DKS... wouldn't you agree that Kid Buu would have a tougher time against DKS than he did vs SKS?

Other sources like DBS come from the horses mouth and is valid to use to shed some light, because it's actually consistent with how DKS performed vs Buu and SKS.

I don't take into account anything outside the manga, unless it has a clear hand from the author. The filler in the anime is pure imagination.
Apologies if I was not clear.

The Super manga, I'll believe it. If you tell me to look at the manga sure and I'll concede that's a current truth.
I still maintain that it's a rewrite from the original manga, from which there's only those lines I quoted a few posts back, which are simple and straight forward.