Hirudegarn compared to Janemba

[Undertaker]

Can someone explain me how Janemba being higher than Hirudegarn who is as strong as Gohan-Boo makes sense?

[PerfectFreeza]

According to what I heard, Toei says Janemba>Hirudegarn on their website, since Goku beat Hirudegarn and got beaten by Janemba.

[VegettoEX]

I don't think Toei has ever written out an equation to compare movie villain strengths.

And again, it doesn't have to make sense. Who says DBZ Movie 13 even takes place in the same universe as DBZ Movie 12? And that either of them take place in the same exact universe or even with the same kind of events as the TV series? Sure, Goku mentions Majin Buu in DBZ Movie 12, but clearly the events of Buu cannot have happened exactly as-is for both all of that AND the movie to take place concurrently.

They're telling the story they want to tell, and will make characters do whatever they feel they need to do in order to tell that story.

[Kaboom]

At one point, Toei compared the two villains on their website, based purely on how each one fared against Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Janemba kicked Goku's ass, while Hildegarn had a harder time keeping Goku down and was ultimately defeated by him (albeit via the likely very-haxed Dragon Fist).

[TheMightyOzaru]

I just take the quote Toei made and kinda work around it by saying Janemba powered up against Gogeta and that was his true power which surpasses Hirudegarn. This way I don't contradict the official and I still make sense.

[RandomGuy96]

Gogeta's pwning of Janemba as a SS1 makes no sense if Hirudegan can kick Gohan's ass. But again, Goku wank logic.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gogeta's pwning of Janemba as a SS1 makes no sense if Hirudegan can kick Gohan's ass. But again, Goku wank logic.

I just take the rival boost idea implied by Rou Kaioshin and apply it to fusion in general making Gogeta stronger than the average fusion.

[Undertaker]

Goku is Toei Haxed in M13 so no. It's just a misconception. Vegetto >> Gogeta meaning Gohan-Boo >> Janemba. Hirudegarn ~ Gohan-Boo meaning Hirudegarn >>>>> Janemba. Janemba is barely as strong as Evil Boo IMO.

[Saiga]

I would have just assumed that M13 Goku was haxxed, but if Janemba really is stronger than M12 Goku and Gogeta must have also been haxxed. Simple!

[RandomGuy96]

Goku is Toei Haxed in M13 so no. It's just a misconception. Vegetto >> Gogeta meaning Gohan-Boo >> Janemba. Hirudegarn ~ Gohan-Boo meaning Hirudegarn >>>>> Janemba. Janemba is barely as strong as Evil Boo IMO.

I think Janemba should actually be in between Super and Kid Buu, cause Gogeta pwned him as only a SS. That's why I don't think that the statement that Janemba is stronger than the guy that one-shotted Gohan and Gotenks can really work.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku is Toei Haxed in M13 so no. It's just a misconception. Vegetto >> Gogeta meaning Gohan-Boo >> Janemba. Hirudegarn ~ Gohan-Boo meaning Hirudegarn >>>>> Janemba. Janemba is barely as strong as Evil Boo IMO.

I just assume the Ryuken provides a massive boost. I have it like this:
Vegetto >> Gogeta > Buuhan > Janemba > Hirudegarn

[Kamiccolo9]

Goku was also dead in movie 12, reducing the SSJ3 strain. So if Janemba can dominate a dead SSJ3 Goku, then he could surely crush a flawed, living one. So
Gogeta>Janemba>Dead SSJ3 Goku>Living SSJ3 Goku>Hirudegarn
Just assume Toei nerfed every non-Goku hero like they do in most movies, and you'll do fine.

[RandomGuy96]

I actually have...

Super Buu > SS Gogeta > Janemba > SS3 Goku

[Draken]

I actually have...

Super Buu > SS Gogeta > Janemba > SS3 Goku

How do you get Gogeta weaker than Super Buu? I typically follow Metamor < Potara, not Metamor <<<< Potara myself, so it'd be something like SS Gogeta >> Janemba > Super Buu for me.

[RandomGuy96]

Because for SS Gogeta to be stronger than Super Buu, Goku and Vegeta would have to be ridiculously stronger than their sons, who could only exceed Buu with SS3 AND ROSAT training, and even then, the domination they showed over Buu was nowhere near the domination Gogeta showed over Janemba. I have Super Buu very slightly stronger than Gogeta SS as a result. I think Potara is five times greater than the dance myself.

[Draken]

Because for SS Gogeta to be stronger than Super Buu, Goku and Vegeta would have to be ridiculously stronger than their sons, who could only exceed Buu with SS3 AND ROSAT training, and even then, the domination they showed over Buu was nowhere near the domination Gogeta showed over Janemba. I have Super Buu very slightly stronger than Gogeta SS as a result. I think Potara is five times greater than the dance myself.

I have the adults leagues above the kids myself. For starters, they're 7/8. And had like a week in the RoSaT. Vegeta had 2 years in the RoSaT and is much much older, with more combat experience. Goku is a natural born fighter who never stops training and nearly a year in the RoSaT. Goten and Trunks spar for fun and Goten's initial SSJ didn't 1 shot his mother. From what we saw in the TB, Goten+Trunks SSJ is what they needed to get an edge over 18, while Goku and Vegeta themselves surpassed 18 years ago and got way stronger since. Then they had a week of extra training. I don't have them making enormous gains in that week, especially when we've seen time and time again a gap of like, 10% is enough to completely sway a fight. I personally think Potara is just barely above the fusion dance, especially when it's Goku + Vegeta.

[GTx10]

I've never heard of Evil J being stronger than Big H but it makes sense. Big H's strengths was his size and his vanishing powers otherwise he's a typical giant. Evil J was a inter dimensional evil incarnate being. The two are worlds apart by mere definition.

[Saiga]

Goten kicking Chi-Chi is filler, and as Super Saiyans they made shocked 18 with their power. Goten also showed that he can put up a fight against Gohan and Vegeta couldn't avoid Trunks' hits. I can't see them as being less than 1/8th of the strength of Goku and Vegeta.

[Draken]

Goten kicking Chi-Chi is filler, and as Super Saiyans they made shocked 18 with their power. Goten also showed that he can put up a fight against Gohan and Vegeta couldn't avoid Trunks' hits. I can't see them as being less than 1/8th of the strength of Goku and Vegeta.

It's pretty shocking when you're a cyborg with unlimited energy built to beat one of the strongest people in the universe challenged by 7 and 8 year old boys isn't it? . I highly doubt Gohan was fully powered up at the time, he wasn't even fighting back, just dodging his assault. Again, I personally find it near impossible for the boys to gain power levels in 7 years of play fighting then the rigorous backbreaking training Goku and Vegeta have been doing all their lives, despite the incredible potential they were born with. And I highly doubt Vegeta was fully powered up as well. He was training and sneered at the possibility of Trunks having any power, and was more taken off guard by the fact Trunks wasn't a whiny little kid. He quickly recovered and bitchslapped Trunks away. I can see them at being less than 1/8th the strength of Goku and Vegeta, especially since we have no idea how fusion works.

[Saiga]

No, that's not shocking at all. This is Dragon Ball, where that doesn't matter in the slightest.

I doubt Vegeta wasn't putting all his effort into dodging, or it wouldn't mean anything that he got hit. And with both him and Gohan, we can see that they're exerting themselves.

Gohan at 10 years old went from nothing special to being the strongest the heroes had, even before Super Saiyan 2. Goten and Trunks are just as much prodigies as Gohan but they have an easier time due to their nature as tailless hybrids. They've also been play-fighting for who knows long.

Super Saiyan Trunks went from weaker than base Gohan to stronger or on par with him in a few years training. And that was without any partners, gravity training, Super Saiyan Full Power or anything else that would have helped him other than his raw potential. I have no trouble with Goten and Trunks managing to make extreme gains through sparring with each other and mastering the Super Saiyan form.