Androids

[ABED]

Where did this term for the artificial humans start? I know FUNi didn't think it up themselves. It was already in the fandom before FUNi ever got to that point. I remember a while back, one of the podcasts went over whether they should be called cyborgs, robots or androids, with the consensus coming down on the side of "cyborgs". That's where I've landed because Android does sound more mechanical, but also because it's innacurate. Android is a male robot. A female robot is "gynoid". I don't remember that distinction being brought up in the podcast. That said, it's not a big deal for me if people call them androids, as I called them that for years. What are your thoughts?

[InfernalVegito]

I thought android always designated a human looking robot, that's made completely out of inorganic materials. 16 would be an android then.
And cyborgs are humans with inorganic parts, ergo C17 and C18. In the German dub for instance they were all just called cyborgs.

[ABED]

Cyborg is short for "cybernetic organism". What that connotes is up to you.

[InfernalVegito]

Well yes, then C17 and C18 are cyborgs.

[Kamiccolo9]

Not sure where it came from, but even if the term is technically incorrect, it gets the point across. Whether you hear android, robot, cyborg, or artificial human, it's obvious the point that they are trying to make. So I just go with Android, since that's what I heard first. The one that bugs me is the Majin, Ma Jinn, and Djinn, Buu titles.

[ABED]

Djinn came from the Viz books, but I've never seen Ma Jinn.

[Kamiccolo9]

Djinn came from the Viz books, but I've never seen Ma Jinn.

Yeah, Viz did a lot of name changes I didn't care for. Djinn, Vegerot, Hercule....
I've seen Ma Jinn on a couple of forums, including a few users on this one. Their explanation is that since Viz uses Djinn, which means genie, then Majin should be Ma Jinn-demon genie.

[ABED]

Djinn came from the Viz books, but I've never seen Ma Jinn.

Yeah, Viz did a lot of name changes I didn't care for. Djinn, Vegerot, (the H-word)....
I've seen Ma Jinn on a couple of forums, including a few users on this one. Their explanation is that since Viz uses Djinn, which means genie, then Majin should be Ma Jinn-demon genie.

Vegerot doesn't really bother me. It makes more sense than FUNi keeping it "vegetto", since the meaning is lost. Perhaps they should've called him Vegerot or Gogeta.

[Kamiccolo9]

Djinn came from the Viz books, but I've never seen Ma Jinn.

Yeah, Viz did a lot of name changes I didn't care for. Djinn, Vegerot, (the H-word)....
I've seen Ma Jinn on a couple of forums, including a few users on this one. Their explanation is that since Viz uses Djinn, which means genie, then Majin should be Ma Jinn-demon genie.

Vegerot doesn't really bother me. It makes more sense than FUNi keeping it "vegetto", since the meaning is lost. Perhaps they should've called him Vegerot or Gogeta.

Vegerot doesn't sound appealing at all to me. If they wanted to name one of Gogeta's failed fusions that, I would be fine with it.
Well, they already had Gogeta for movie 12. And he was already Vegetto in the original manga, so it becomes a matter of preserving the name, or altering it to fit with the Funimation's changing of Goku's name. Funimation was getting a lot closer to the original by the Buu Arc, so I imagine that they went with Vegetto to fit with the original.

[Ryuman]

Perhaps they should've called him Vegerot or Gogeta.

I'm pretty sure that there's a fairly obvious problem with that last one.

[ABED]

Perhaps they should've called him Vegerot or Gogeta.

I'm pretty sure that there's a fairly obvious problem with that last one.

Is it really a problem? It's not like those two forms are that different besides their design.

Vegetto only makes sense when he's named Kakarotto, which only works because of the extra syllable. Would it be the worst thing in the world if Gogeta was the name for both fusions?

[Kamiccolo9]

Perhaps they should've called him Vegerot or Gogeta.

I'm pretty sure that there's a fairly obvious problem with that last one.

Is it really a problem? It's not like those two forms are that different besides their design.

There's a big difference, in power, personality, and design, between Vegetto and movie 12 Gogeta.

[ABED]

There's a big difference, in power, personality, and design, between Vegetto and movie 12 Gogeta.

I don't recall them being all that different personality wise, and I'm not sure how you tell how powerful one is in comparison to the other, plus it's a movie and thus an alternate universe.

[ForestEquilibrium]

cy·borg
noun
a person whose physiological functioning is aided by or dependent upon a mechanical or electronic device.

-Dictionary.com

Sounds pretty exclusive to #17, #18 and Gero himself to me.

"Android" has become more of catch-all for any robot resembling human like InfernalVegito said regardless of gender (#16, #19 and probably the ones from Movie 7 fit here), "gynoid" is more just used to be more specific about what kind of robot it is supposed to be.

"Artificial Human" is technically the best term since it's vague enough to encompass all three types including Cell (his "humanness" can be debated). Problem is if you're an English speaker it can be too much of a mouthful to be really effective w/o having to explain what you mean. That's probably why the term "Android" stuck since it's only two syllables and most people will get what you mean pretty quickly and that's usually what I refer to them as. Using "cyborg" as an umbrella term for all of them doesn't work in my opinion since #16 and #19 lack any organic composition at all.

[Kamiccolo9]

There's a big difference, in power, personality, and design, between Vegetto and movie 12 Gogeta.

I don't recall them being all that different personality wise, and I'm not sure how you tell how powerful one is in comparison to the other, plus it's a movie and thus an alternate universe.

Vegetto is cocky, and taunted Buu in order to trick him into absorbing him. Movie 12 Gogeta was no-nonsense, and demolished Janemba in a few seconds. Vegetto was a lot like GT Gogeta though.
As far as power goes, I'm not gonna get into that here, but there are numerous threads in the in-universe section about it if you want to look.
And while it is a movie and an alternate universe, it is still two different characters that the fans are being exposed to. They need different names.

[penguintruth]

I usually use "Artificial Human" in print, since it's (perhaps intentionally?) vague. Like, I remember Sharon Apple in Macross Plus being referred to as "Jinzonignen", and she was an AI, essentially a computer program.

In speech, I tend to use "androids" out of habit.

[InfernalVegito]

I also don't think there are big differences between them. I wonder, though, whether both of them know each other. Basically, if GT Gogeta knows who Vegetto was and what he thinks about him and vice versa.

[ABED]

Gynoid isn't just being specific, it denotes a different sex. Andro is rooted in the greek word for "man", and "gyno" being from the word for woman. That is unless you think "android" is sort of like "mankind" encompasses both sexes, in which case you will piss off feminists - let's call them all "androids"!

Is "artificial human" the japanese term for android/robot/cyborg because it's the closest term they had in their language? While we're on that subject, is "instantaneous movement" their term for teleportation?

As for Vegetto's personality, I chalk a lot of that up to his strategy of trying to get absorbed. Gogeta didn't have any time to waste (time wasn't a factor for Vegetto) and he didn't have people to save who were trapped inside of the enemy.

[ForestEquilibrium]

Gynoid isn't just being specific, it denotes a different sex. Andro is rooted in the greek word for "man", and "gyno" being from the word for woman. That is unless you think "android" is sort of like "mankind" encompasses both sexes, in which case you will piss off feminists - let's call them all "androids"!

Is "artificial human" the japanese term for android/robot/cyborg because it's the closest term they had in their language? While we're on that subject, is "instantaneous movement" their term for teleportation?

To quote dictionary.com once again:
"an·droid
noun
an automaton in the form of a human being."

[Wikipedia gives a similar definition with several sources cited to back it up)

No mention of any specific gender division or features, meaning the "mankind" comparison you made isn't too far off from whatever was originally meant in it's initial usage in the 18th century (which the Oxford dictionary cites as being Ephiram Chamber's Cyclopedia).

What I meant by "gynoid" being a specific term is that a gynoid is considered a type of android in most sci fi media (in most cases, an robot designed to fulfill men's fantasies), regardless of what we, or the feminists think (Winona Ryder's character from Alien: Resurrection is still referred to as an android, and that was written by Joss Whedon). Regardless, while it would be technically correct to refer to #18 as a "gynoid" were she actually a wholly artificial creation, even the usage of that is dubious at best because she's still partially human, not to mention seeing as she's the only one to be female I don't think using "android" is something to really sweat about. Don't even get started on the fact that some writers refer to androids as being any "synthetic human being" which even includes mummies, puppets, dolls and statues.

[ABED]

Gynoid isn't just being specific, it denotes a different sex. Andro is rooted in the greek word for "man", and "gyno" being from the word for woman. That is unless you think "android" is sort of like "mankind" encompasses both sexes, in which case you will piss off feminists - let's call them all "androids"!

Is "artificial human" the japanese term for android/robot/cyborg because it's the closest term they had in their language? While we're on that subject, is "instantaneous movement" their term for teleportation?

To quote dictionary.com once again:
"an·droid
noun
an automaton in the form of a human being."

[Wikipedia gives a similar definition with several sources cited to back it up)

No mention of any specific gender division or features, meaning the "mankind" comparison you made isn't too far off from whatever was originally meant in it's initial usage in the 18th century (which the Oxford dictionary cites as being Ephiram Chamber's Cyclopedia).

What I meant by "gynoid" being a specific term is that a gynoid is considered a type of android in most sci fi media (in most cases, an robot designed to fulfill men's fantasies), regardless of what we, or the feminists think (Winona Ryder's character from Alien: Resurrection is still referred to as an android, and that was written by Joss Whedon). Regardless, while it would be technically correct to refer to #18 as a "gynoid" were she actually a wholly artificial creation, even the usage of that is dubious at best because she's still partially human, not to mention seeing as she's the only one to be female I don't think using "android" is something to really sweat about. Don't even get started on the fact that some writers refer to androids as being any "synthetic human being" which even includes mummies, puppets, dolls and statues.

I wouldn't be too quick to give Whedon credit for Alien Resurrection. I don't think he wants credit for that movie, it was changed significantly.

I don't sweat about the android thing, just think it's interesting.

The Terminator is considered a cyborg, due to its skin.