How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
- Eternal Super Saiyan
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1027
- Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:18 am
- Location: Oregon, United States
How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
Based on Battle of Gods, Beerus isn't the only deity. King Kai was able to sense Beerus. Not only that, he goes on saying that he and Supreme Kai are deities.
How can Goku sense all of the Kai's Ki/presence if they are all Gods like Beerus, but he can't sense Beerus? Is this a plot hole? Or is there logical explanation behind this I'm somehow missing?
Sorry if this topic was posted before. I did try searching around for a post like this just in case..
How can Goku sense all of the Kai's Ki/presence if they are all Gods like Beerus, but he can't sense Beerus? Is this a plot hole? Or is there logical explanation behind this I'm somehow missing?
Sorry if this topic was posted before. I did try searching around for a post like this just in case..
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku
- Super Saiyan Turlast x4
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3405
- Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:45 am
- Location: Philadelphia
- Contact:
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
Maybe he can sense Kaio because he's a "lesser" deity compared to Kaioshin and Beerus?
Or maybe Goku sensed Bubbles to get to Kaio's planet
Or maybe Goku sensed Bubbles to get to Kaio's planet
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~
- Eternal Super Saiyan
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1027
- Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:18 am
- Location: Oregon, United States
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
When King Kai told Goku he shouldn't talk about Lord Beerus, we see Goku attempting to IT to Supreme Kai and Elder Kai. But then King Kai stopped him from doing so. They're gods too. And those 2 gods don't have any pet monkeys around!Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Maybe he can sense Kaio because he's a "lesser" deity compared to Kaioshin and Beerus?
Or maybe Goku sensed Bubbles to get to Kaio's planet
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku
- Super Saiyan Turlast x4
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3405
- Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:45 am
- Location: Philadelphia
- Contact:
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
Well, that's odd. Goku was only able to find the Kaioshin world once he felt Gohan's Chi. None of them could sense Kaioshin in the Boo saga, but maybe Goku could sense the old Kaioshin. I don't think it's ever touched upon.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~
- Marco Polo
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2967
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
He sensed the King Kai's planet. King Kai himself said that there is ki in every living being, including grass and trees (but excluding gods apparently). We even see Goku getting ki from grass when learning the Genki Dama.
- Herms
- Kanzenshuu Admin Emeritus
- Posts: 10550
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:40 pm
- Location: Jupiter
- Contact:
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
Still, if that's how he's been teleporting to Kaio's all this time, you'd think he would have already picked up on the fact that he can't sense gods' ki. I guess you could write it off as typical Goku stupidity...and it is notable that when Goku first arrived at Kaio's planet back in the Saiyan arc, at first he mistakes Bubbles for Kaio, then when Kaio himself shows up he goes "who the heck are you?" Apparently he can't use his ki-sensing skills to determine which of these two life-forms is the big powerful god he's come to train under, and which is just some monkey (a super strong, super fast monkey that can survive on a planet with ten times Earth's gravity, but still, presumably Kaio's much stronger than Bubbles). So maybe we can take that as a sign that Goku's never been able to sense Kaio's ki, but never really thought about it before the events of BoG. On the other hand, Goku's ki-sensing skills are still pretty primitive in the early Saiyan arc. He can't sense Raditz's ki until Raditz is very close, and even though he can tell Raditz is strong, he's still surprised at just how strong Raditz is when they actually fight. So in that light, Goku not being able to tell right off the bat that Kaio is the martial arts master god guy he's looking for may just be a sign that his ki sensing skills are still fairly undeveloped at that point. I mean, it's a safe bet that Toriyama had no inkling of this "gods have high quality ki that Goku and co. can't sense" idea before writing BoG, so any attempt to fit it in to the main series is just retroactive rationalization.Marco Polo wrote:He sensed the King Kai's planet. King Kai himself said that there is ki in every living being, including grass and trees (but excluding gods apparently). We even see Goku getting ki from grass when learning the Genki Dama.
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
Goku specifically searches for, and finds, King Kai's ki when he teleports there while hunting for New Namek.
- Angelus
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1971
- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:19 am
- Location: Dragonball Multiverse
- Contact:
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
Well, we never actually see Goku IT to the Kaioshin planet when Gohan wasn't on it and also Bubbles is on King Kai's planet the entire time so he could have locked unto Bubbles' ki each time he goes IT-ing to King Kai's planet.
Sure, Goku did try to IT to Kaioshin planet but he never actually did it. Remember back then that Goku tried to IT to new planet Namek but just couldn't until he asked for directions from King Kai?
Sure, Goku did try to IT to Kaioshin planet but he never actually did it. Remember back then that Goku tried to IT to new planet Namek but just couldn't until he asked for directions from King Kai?
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
Can he not have both mortal and godly ki?
Maybe every being by default has normal ki, and upon becoming a deity are granted godly ki on top of it.
Maybe every being by default has normal ki, and upon becoming a deity are granted godly ki on top of it.
- Gyt Kaliba
- Kicks it Old-School
- Posts: 8861
- Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:38 am
- Location: Arkansas
- Contact:
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
It's just a guess on my own part, and there's not really anything to back it up, but maybe it's also a case of Goku having spent a lot of time with Kaio? Maybe godly ki isn't really 'unsensable', in the same manner that the Androids are, but more so it's just really hard to sense unless you happen to be super familiar with the particular deity in question, or have spent a lot of time in their presence. Goku trained for a year with Kaio, he spent less than a day with Beerus. It's viable...ish. Kinda. It's what I'm rolling with for the time being anyway.
Though, that does still beg the question as to why Goku, nor anyone else, ever seems to have noted the inability to notice a God's ki before. But, like Herms said, after the fact rationalization - and those are only going to get you so far no matter what.
Though, that does still beg the question as to why Goku, nor anyone else, ever seems to have noted the inability to notice a God's ki before. But, like Herms said, after the fact rationalization - and those are only going to get you so far no matter what.
AniManga Travelogue - Currently Reviewing: Dragon Ball (Z)
Twitter
Switch Friend Code: SW-0745-6427-7791 (let's play some Dragon Ball: The Breakers!)
Switch Friend Code: SW-0745-6427-7791 (let's play some Dragon Ball: The Breakers!)
- goku the krump dancer
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3571
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:34 pm
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
When Goku first introduces Instant Transmission I believe he says, in order to teleport, you have to either lock on to a persons ki or you could have a place in mind that you've been to before. And he's been to Kaio's and Kaioshin's worlds on more than one occasion.
It's not too late. One day, it will be.
Peace And Power MF DOOM!
Peace and Power Kevin Samuels
Peace And Power MF DOOM!
Peace and Power Kevin Samuels
- Super Saiyan Turlast x4
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3405
- Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:45 am
- Location: Philadelphia
- Contact:
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
Goku's explanation of teleport:
"You think of a person, not a place. Then you find his Chi...So you can't go some place where there isn't anyone you know."
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~
- goku the krump dancer
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3571
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:34 pm
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
Ah ok, somewhere along the lines I got it mixed up.. Guess we can chalk it up to another BoG glitch. Though I guess even in the series proper Goku goes against that exact statement since he didn't know any of the Namekians but was still able to travel to New Namek from Kaio's place. But I guess overrall locking onto chi is the most important part.
One could say that Old Kai and KibitoShin are no longer %100 God since they are both technically "fused beings". Old Kai with the witch and Supreme Kai with Kibito. So even though they're still like %95 god, that other five percent of "other being" gives Goku some leeway to grasp their chi. Even if it's just for sensing purposes and not Battle power. Idk maybe?
One could say that Old Kai and KibitoShin are no longer %100 God since they are both technically "fused beings". Old Kai with the witch and Supreme Kai with Kibito. So even though they're still like %95 god, that other five percent of "other being" gives Goku some leeway to grasp their chi. Even if it's just for sensing purposes and not Battle power. Idk maybe?
It's not too late. One day, it will be.
Peace And Power MF DOOM!
Peace and Power Kevin Samuels
Peace And Power MF DOOM!
Peace and Power Kevin Samuels
- Low Tone G
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1711
- Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:34 am
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
I think Goku can sense King Kai's and Supreme Kai's battle power, so he is able to IT to them. It was stated Kais and Supreme Kais(Kaioshins) are the Gods of Creation. So they do not have any Godly Destructive Power, just because the God Of Destruction has the permit to destroy, they must create, and musn't destroy. As King Kai was stated to be not only a knowledgeable God, but Martial Arts Master too, He has a normal Battle power attained by training which he has done in the past. Kaioshins, on the other hand, are born with very high battle power, in order to protect their creations from lower beings, who do not have rights to destory them.Zephyr wrote:Can he not have both mortal and godly ki?
Maybe every being by default has normal ki, and upon becoming a deity are granted godly ki on top of it.
I personally see the creation and destruction Godly features which can not be sensed by lower beings, because it's a high ranked magical ability, not life force, like battle power is.
English is not my first language!
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
- DBZGTKOSDH
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 12401
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
- Location: Greece
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
When Goku became a God, Kuririn said that he couldn't tell how strong Goku is, not that he couldn't sense his presence. So, I guess he can sense Kaio's ki, but he can't measure his power.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
- Low Tone G
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1711
- Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:34 am
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
That's not the same? Not to mention that in Jap dub Krillin says that Goku's power/presence did disappear.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:When Goku became a God, Kuririn said that he couldn't tell how strong Goku is, not that he couldn't sense his presence. So, I guess he can sense Kaio's ki, but he can't measure his power.
English is not my first language!
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
- DBZGTKOSDH
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 12401
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
- Location: Greece
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
No, Kuririn said that he couldn't measure Goku's battle power.Low Tone G wrote:That's not the same? Not to mention that in Jap dub Krillin says that Goku's power/presence did disappear.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:When Goku became a God, Kuririn said that he couldn't tell how strong Goku is, not that he couldn't sense his presence. So, I guess he can sense Kaio's ki, but he can't measure his power.
(Don't say "Jap"! It's offensive! Use Jpn for short!)
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
- Low Tone G
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1711
- Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:34 am
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
Oh, sorry, I did not know... In a sub I've read Krillin that Goku power disapppeared.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:No, Kuririn said that he couldn't measure Goku's battle power.Low Tone G wrote:That's not the same? Not to mention that in Jap dub Krillin says that Goku's power/presence did disappear.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:When Goku became a God, Kuririn said that he couldn't tell how strong Goku is, not that he couldn't sense his presence. So, I guess he can sense Kaio's ki, but he can't measure his power.
(Don't say "Jap"! It's offensive! Use Jpn for short!)
English is not my first language!
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
- DBZGTKOSDH
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 12401
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
- Location: Greece
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
My subs say "I can't even tell what Goku's battle power is!".Low Tone G wrote:Oh, sorry, I did not know... In a sub I've read Krillin that Goku power disapppeared.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
- Eternal Super Saiyan
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1027
- Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:18 am
- Location: Oregon, United States
Re: How can Goku teleport to King Kai if he's a deity?
Goku told King Kai he couldn't tell if Beerus was coming. So not only could he not gauge Beerus power level, he didn't know Beerus was coming if King Kai hadn't told him that.
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku