Are the four Kaio considered canonical in terms of design?
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Are the four Kaio considered canonical in terms of design?
I know these guys all technically exist in the manga canon, but I don't believe we've ever seen them outside of the anime. And since they were introduced during the Otherworld tournament arc, I wonder.
Do you consider them canon, at least in terms of design? I mean we know there's an East, West and South Kai...but are they considered the true designs?
Re: Are the 4 Kai's considered canon in terms of design?
No, only South Kai is seen in the manga. The other two were created by Toei
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Re: Are the 4 Kai's considered canon in terms of design?
So is it possible this can be contradicted in Super? Or would they use the same Kai designs for consistencies sake? I mean we still see Gregory in Super.
Re: Are the 4 Kai's considered canon in terms of design?
It's complicated, but if Toriyama needed to bring West and East Kai into a story, you can expect a 90% chance that he'll use the anime designs, based on taking the South Kai design. So, a level of pseudo canon?
Re: Are the 4 Kai's considered canon in terms of design?
I can see why one wouldn't expect Toriyama to follow those designs if he needs to use those characters again. He tends to ignore stuff like that, even if he has a hand in assisting with the creative process of what we see in the anime continuity. You're free to accept them. It's only a matter of remembering not to be surprised if they change. For what it's worth, he is responsible for Grand Kaio's design and providing information that four Kaio exist at all.
The Kaiōs’ Background
The afterlife tournament filler arc is notable for explaining the four Kaiō and the Dai Kaiō some time before it was explained in the manga. This filler arc began on 18 July 1993, and featured the Dai Kaiō and the four regular Kaiō prominently, while in the manga the Dai Kaiō and his role was not explained until Piccolo learns of Kaiōshin’s identity in chapter 440, which came out 11 October 1993 (the South Kaiō did however debut in the manga shortly before the anime filler arc began, appearing in chapter 428 on 12 July 1993). Since the explanation of the Dai Kaiō and the four Kaiō is the same in both the manga and anime, it is almost certain that Toriyama supplied this background information to the anime staff.
Re: Are the 4 Kai's considered canon in terms of design?
I'd say they're canon to the anime, at least. As mentioned above, the same happened with Gregory. And I might be wrong, but the other Kaioshin didn't appear in the manga either, except for South Kaioshin and Daikaioshin (and East ofcourse).
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Re: Are the 4 Kai's considered canon in terms of design?
He didn't take the South Kaio design; South Kaio appeared in the manga before the anime. The manga chapter where he barges in on Goku's training came out in Jump before the afterlife tournament episodes aired.FoolsGil wrote:It's complicated, but if Toriyama needed to bring West and East Kai into a story, you can expect a 90% chance that he'll use the anime designs, based on taking the South Kai design. So, a level of pseudo canon?
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Re: Are the 4 Kai's considered canon in terms of design?
Ah. My bad.Herms wrote:He didn't take the South Kaio design; South Kaio appeared in the manga before the anime. The manga chapter where he barges in on Goku's training came out in Jump before the afterlife tournament episodes aired.FoolsGil wrote:It's complicated, but if Toriyama needed to bring West and East Kai into a story, you can expect a 90% chance that he'll use the anime designs, based on taking the South Kai design. So, a level of pseudo canon?
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Re: Are the 4 Kai's considered canon in terms of design?
I do consider them canon. In fact, I tend to consider stuff from the anime canon as long as there's no contradiction with the manga. Since I doubt anything supervised by Toriyama will include them anytime soon (Super has already gone long past those levels of Gods) I'm happy to think that's what they look like in the manga continuity too, even if we haven't seen them.
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Re: Are the four Kaio considered canonical in terms of design?
Off-topic but it would have been great if we had art of Zamasu in a Kaio outfit since he used to be one.