Do you think Super has divided the fandom?

[Totamo]

So I saw the last jedi yesterday and I now understand why the star wars fandom is as divided it as it is. The film goes against the fandom's expectations, changes things about characters that people liked and things you thought the franchise wouldn't go did.



So now I'm wondering has super done the same. Do you think so

[Asura]

It did, up until the Future Trunks arc. Now, it's bringing the fandom back together again with the great quality of the FT arc, and the amazing quality of the ToP arc in comparison to the earlier arcs.

Ultra Instinct alone has made people excited for Dragon Ball again, combine that with insane 109/110 streaming ratings and it's now okay to like Super. The days of accusing people of being "Super apologists" are gone, because there's nothing to apologize about anymore. It doesn't come anywhere close to Z or DB (and some parts of GT) but it's still a good show now.

[The_Destroyer]

As a whole? No. On certain issues? Yes.

I mean everyone agrees Katopesla was the greates thing to come out of the ToP, right?

[sintzu]

It's not that easy to say due to a lot of reactions both positive and negative being first reactions so they can change over time. I think some issues will be overlooked once we're able to watch an arc all at once however this doesn't mean the issues will be gone but they won't be as obvious when we don't sit and think about each episode for an entire week.

For example the writing for Goku in ep53 was terrable to say the least but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have noticed it that much if I was able to watch the next few episodes right after as I'd be thinking about the amazing team fight he and Trunks had against Black.

Same thing with the current tournament, If I was able to watch multiple episodes ending with Goku and Jiren's fight in 110 then that's what I'd be thinking about, not the lackluset characters and fights from the beginning.

Even the first 2 arcs may not be as looked down apon as they are if they didn't have movie counterparts (minus certain issues that are bad regardless of how you look at them) so overall I think Super will bring more fans together once they give it another chance after it's over.

With that said, Piccolo's fans will NEVER forgive what they did to him in Champa's tournament so that's a wound time can never heal.

[Hawk9211]

It's not that easy to say due to a lot of reactions both positive and negative being first reactions so they can change over time. I think some issues will be overlooked once we're able to watch an arc all at once however this doesn't mean the issues will be gone but they won't be as obvious when we don't sit and think about each episode for an entire week.

For example the writing for Goku in ep53 was terrable to say the least but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have noticed it that much if I was able to watch the next few episodes right after as I'd be thinking about the amazing team fight he and Trunks had against Black.

Same thing with the current tournament, If I was able to watch multiple episodes ending with Goku and Jiren's fight in 110 then that's what I'd be thinking about, not the lackluset characters and fights from the beginning.

Even the first 2 arcs may not be as looked down apon as they are if they didn't have movie counterparts (minus certain issues that are bad regardless of how you look at them) so overall I think Super will bring more fans together once they give it another chance after it's over.

With that said, Piccolo's fans will NEVER forgive what they did to him in Champa's tournament so that's a wound time can never heal.

And episode 119.

[sintzu]

And episode 119.

Him falling out of the ring wasn't the best way to go but at least he put on a good show before leaving, something I can't say about Tien.

We also got this new meme from 119 so it wasn't all bad.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[SupremeKai25]

The Future Trunks arc, despite its flawless early stage, its compelling story, and its revolutionary and superb villain, divided the fandom towards the final stage. For example, most people didn't like ep. 66 because it didn't make sense that Trunks could unknowingly learn the Spirit Bomb in an instant and subsequently inbue a Spirit Bomb into his ki sword. And, obviously, there is no logical way that Trunks (who was getting stomped by Black earlier), with the power of a bunch of wounded civilians and 2 exhausted base Saiyans, could defeat Fused Zamasu. It doesn't make sense. Fused Zamasu's body might have been half-mortal, but this being showed the ability to fight on-par with SSB Vegito and tank a massive Final Kamehameha. But i will not delve into that [controversial] subject.

And of course, i know several people on all social medias that were very disappointed by the Potara retcon (while other like it, because now they know precisely why Vegito defused inside Buu's body), and Super Saiyan Rage (which, to this day, still has no logical explanation whatsoever).

But part of the reason why Zamasu is one of the most beloved villains in the franchise is because he brought the fandom together to discuss his origins, his backstory, his possible relationship with the mysterious Black, his motives etc... so, even though this arc did a lot of controversial things towards the ending, it still did a lot of good things to captivate the fandom's attention and interest. In fact, episode 47, which shows the debut of Goku Black, is the most viewed episode of Dragon Ball Super by a wide margin.

[VegettoEX]

For example, most people didn't like ep. 66

Y'all can't keep making grand, sweeping statements like this with little to back it up. "Didn't you read the internet?!" isn't an acceptable response to this, because I did indeed read the internet and plenty of people (yes, myself included) have absolutely no problem with how that episode went. And no, I'm not saying that I alone speak for an entire "side" to an "argument". (Have to keep cutting the retorts off at the pass, since I've done this song and dance enough times to know how it goes.)

I haven't really seen any "new" divisions in fandom; rather, it's made the loudest pockets even more obnoxious due to the week-to-week echo chamber of the same arguments amplified dozens of times over themselves. Same old shit, different day / what's old is new again.

In terms of "divisions", I'd say the one existing "division" that's seen a benefit is many of what had previously been exclusively-FUNimation-English-dub-fans being "forced" to consume the show in its original Japanese form -- since that's all that exists(ed) -- and massively coming around to the cast.

[SupremeKai25]

For example, most people didn't like ep. 66

Y'all can't keep making grand, sweeping statements like this with little to back it up. "Didn't you read the internet?!" isn't an acceptable response to this, because I did indeed read the internet and plenty of people (yes, myself included) have absolutely no problem with how that episode went. And no, I'm not saying that I alone speak for an entire "side" to an "argument". (Have to keep cutting the retorts off at the pass, since I've done this song and dance enough times to know how it goes.)

I haven't really seen any "new" divisions in fandom; rather, it's made the loudest pockets even more obnoxious due to the week-to-week echo chamber of the same arguments amplified dozens of times over themselves. Same old shit, different day / what's old is new again.

In terms of "divisions", I'd say the one existing "division" that's seen a benefit is many of what had previously been exclusively-FUNimation-English-dub-fans being "forced" to consume the show in its original Japanese form -- since that's all that exists(ed) -- and massively coming around to the cast.

I was referring to my personal opinion, so i chose the wrong words. But i do believe (from what i've seen) that many people did not like the ending of the Future Trunks arc (ep. 66-67), so it is a controversial topic and naturally it divided the fandom.

[Nickolaidas]

So I saw the last jedi yesterday and I now understand why the star wars fandom is as divided it as it is. The film goes against the fandom's expectations, changes things about characters that people liked and things you thought the franchise wouldn't go did.



So now I'm wondering has super done the same. Do you think so

Dragon Ball Super changed some things the fandom considered (seemingly) unbreakable rules. Power-scaling for example.

Personally, I think one of the biggest reasons there's a divided fandom is because the fandom itself changes. It's one thing to see DBZ today for the first time when you're 30-40 years old, another thing to rewatch DBZ when you're 40 (but saw it when you were 10-20 years old) and ANOTHER thing to see DBZ back then for the first time when you're 15 years old. Also, it's one thing to see a product of the nineties when you live the nineties and another to see it when you live in 2020. There are so many factors to take in that it's almost impossible for a product to make the same impact today and thirty years ago. Can you imagine Carpenter's Halloween released today for the first time? Pretty sure it would amass a 4/10 on imdb.com by the viewers. Back then it inspired an entire generation of horror fans. Today, it's nothing (when you disregard its historic importance to the genre).

It's the same with Star Wars. I never watched the old trilogy when the prequels began coming out, I was 20 years old and had no nostalgia goggles. I found the Phantom Menace an adequate experience with an awesome final act, while I was blown away with Revenge of the Sith's second half (Yoda vs Palpatine is one of my favourite battles in cinema). Then I saw the old trilogy and I was amazed at how people literally worshipped the material. It seemed poorly done (because it was, in IV's case), and V and VI had a few good moments but nothing special. Now, fifteen years later, the new SW episodes were disappointing. VII was meh while VIII really made me want to punch someone. So, in general, it's a mixed bag. And I'm not sure whether I disliked some SW episodes because I grew out of it, I am much more intolerant of pacing, directing and acting issues or simply because they genuinely sucked.

I think it's a mix of everything. The fan having more demands out of the product, the product making changes, the era we live in, our current age ... all of it factors into the equation.

[Hawk9211]

And episode 119.

Him falling out of the ring wasn't the best way to go but at least he put on a good show before leaving, something I can't say about Tien.

We also got this new meme from 119 so it wasn't all bad.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Opinions I guess but it is worst episode of top for me,not just because of piccolo.

[BlueBasilisk]

I haven't really seen any "new" divisions in fandom; rather, it's made the loudest pockets even more obnoxious due to the week-to-week echo chamber of the same arguments amplified dozens of times over themselves. Same old shit, different day / what's old is new again.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject. The fandom doesn't appear any more divided than it did when I've dipped my toe into the pool is the past. It's always divided and arguing over some thing or other. What's changed is the subject. There may be more of an echo chamber effect thanks to promonent youtubers, but that's true for any fandom, not just this one. I've participated in the fandoms for Evangelion, Star Wars, Doctor Who, TMNT, Avatar, Pokemon and Ace Attorney. You see the same shit wherever you go.

[Bullza]

Nah people were mixed on it up until the start of the Future Trunks saga and it's improved significantly since then. I don't see nearly as much criticism as I used (not including nitpicks).

[Saturnine]

The power scaling has always been shit if the writer was someone else than Toriyama. That goes for GT and pretty much all Z filler. While it's disappointing that the same is true in Super, it shouldn't be surprising.

Other than that it's a good show, especially for the worldbuilding. Still plenty more potential to be had, even if it's rebranded for the post-EoZ stuff.

[precita]

It's a few things:

1. Toriyama himself isn't writing the episodes or stories, just giving story arc arc ideas and some plot details to Toei's writers.

2. Power levels are all over the place

3. People are watching as adults rather than kids, and are thus more critical of things we would have not cared about if this was 10-15 years ago

[Saturnine]

It's a few things:

1. Toriyama himself isn't writing the episodes or stories, just giving story arc arc ideas and some plot details to Toei's writers.

More than "some" to be fair. You can see just how much is Toriyama by comparing the anime to Toyotaro's manga. His writing directly affects quite a lot, frankly, down to single dialogue lines or jokes.

[VintageSaiyan]

Seeing as how the current series has forced fans to either accept the disgusting mediocrity surrounding the series or be ostracized by Super apologists, often being labeled as ''nostalgic'', yes it has polarized the series.

[Lord Beerus]

No. There have always been subjects within Dragon Ball that have had supporters, detractors and those who don't really care that much for it since, really, forever. Super just brings more new subject to the table to discuss. But before it's inception, certain parts of the fandom have been "dived" on many aspects of Dragon Ball.

[majinwarman]

No. There have always been subjects within Dragon Ball that have had supporters, detractors and those who don't really care that much for it since, really, forever. Super just brings more new subject to the table to discuss. But before it's inception, certain parts of the fandom have been "dived" on many aspects of Dragon Ball.

But, I have a question of how does Super affect the fanbase. People are either enjoying the show or calling for it to be canceled. It really isn't a healthy environment around the community right now. I personally like Super but I can feel the toxic environment around this show. So, I wonder about your opinion on this issue.

[Rebel Instinct]

But, I have a question of how does Super affect the fanbase. People are either enjoying the show or calling for it to be canceled. It really isn't a healthy environment around the community right now. I personally like Super but I can feel the toxic environment around this show. So, I wonder about your opinion on this issue.

I'm not the person you where originally responding to, so forgive me for butting in.

Honestly, I feel like the people who say they haven't noticed any change in the amount of toxicity and in-fighting in the community since Super debuted are either lying to themselves or otherwise haven't been paying much attention/don't care enough to notice (that or they're sitting comfortably on the "winning side" of most arguments and don't see the fighting as anything consequential from their perspective). Whether you love or hate Super or lie somewhere in between, you'd be hard-pressed to not notice all the arguing going on all around the internet. Just saying,"Oh, the fanbase always argues about one thing or another, so it's nothing new." are oversimplifying the state of the community and making it seem like everything's all hunky-dory. There are degrees to these sorts of things and not all divisions are made equal. There's always the regular bickering that every fanbase has, but I feel like the hardcore Dragon Ball fandom post-Super is more divided than ever.

First, you have those who are split over the differences between Z and Super and the general direction of Super in and of itself. Then, you have the split between the anime and manga adaptations of Super with a perpetually ongoing petty civil war between those who prefer one or the other. Going even further, there are all the divided opinions between the individual minutia of each of the adaptations like transformations, power scaling, power-ups, internal consistency and the like, and all of this is piled up on top of all the preexisting divisions within the community. What we're left with is a community that's split into so many different camps that everyone is bent out of shape and arguing about something no matter where you go. For better and worse (yes, both) Super has set off a metaphorical H-bomb in the DB community.

It really doesn't help that so many people are zealously staunch in the opinions they have and are almost completely intolerant of opposing sentiments (which isn't exclusive to the DB fandom mind you, but a significant problem nonetheless). It isn't just one-sided antagonism either, the extremes really do come from both sides. You either hate Super and feel like it's completely ruining the franchise or you love Super and anyone who doesn't feel the same way is an ignorant hater literally worse than Devil Hitler™. You either idolize the anime and see the manga as a pathetic trash rag written by a talentless hack or see the manga as a beacon of hope for the series going forward and feel like the writers at Toei are incompetent boobs bent on destroying the series. The people who straddle the line somewhere in the middle have very little wiggle room in voicing their opinions because there's such an "Us vs. Them' mentality anymore. Watching Dragon Ball discussions can sometimes feel like observing political debates in sheer polarization and intensity. It isn't healthy for the community in the slightest and it can make simply engaging with the community unpleasant and exhausting. There's healthy debate and then there's bitter tribalism and spite. Maybe it's just my own individual cross section of experiences making me think this, but I feel like the community's been sliding into the latter end of the spectrum at an alarming rate.