Dragon Ball Minus is not bad.

[Master Xar]

From the perspective of that it was supposed to be a short bonus chapter to Jaco the Galactic patrolman I don’t really see what’s so wrong with it. People go on and on about how...

1.) “it totally changes the narrative that Goku is just a low-class sent to a garbage planet”
How in the world does this change that narrative at all? He is still a low-class saiyan sent to a garbage planet. Bardock himself ACKNOWLEDGES that Earth is a fodder planet with little life on it...

if anything it only enhanced that narrative since the Bardock Special had him sent more purposely out to Earth to be it’s destroyer with recognition of his low power while here it’s a borderline accident/on-the-fly decision for Goku’s survival, they acknowledge Earth nonchalantly as a trash planet in terms of power as if it was already well known.

2.) “Bardock is a horrible character now! Zero development! He is a goody goody that cares about his family now along with Gine!”
Again. It’s a short. Bonus chapter. You can’t develop a character organically and have them as fleshed out in 13 pages when it goes along with all the events it’s trying to establish. And from him caring about his family... So? It doesn’t take away from him still being a murderous saiyan warrior. If you prefer the Bardock special one’s personality sure that is fair, but to say he is a better character from the comparison of the two mediums (13 pages vs. a full blown special) isn’t fair because one has more screentime and room to flesh out more than the other.

3.) “Goku’s origin story is basically Superman now! It’s completely generic!”
Once again another point without knowing the purpose of it being a short chapter and a result of that. Any time something is shorten and lack circumstances, coincidences, nuances, and all-around fleshing out its ALWAYS going to seem more generic.

For reference let’s look at something generic. Jiren’s backstory. The idea itself is sound and interesting, but it was a short and generic backstory. People often compare his backstory to Sasuke or just that it’s the generic “parent died” etc. but the only fault of that being it...

A.) isn’t an objective criticism considering what the purpose of it later was. You can say the same for Dragonball Minus.

B.) Both weren’t really meant to be in the first place. Could they have more fleshing out and more thoroughly dived into? Yes. But their purpose for now is meant to give a short summary and bulletpoints on how events/problems came to be, they weren’t either meant to be these big fleshed out and explained something’s for their current time and to say they are objectively bad for doing so is bullshit in my opinion.

4.) “It creates plotholes! Goku’s age is inconsistent and he shouldn’t have saiyan armor on! Raditz doesn’t know about Planet Vegeta’s destruction why do they inform him! Bardock doesn’t go up to fly and fight Freeza!”

A.) I’m not completely sure on this, but I remember not seeing Grandpa Gohan even GET Goku out of the pod in the original manga. And there is no confirmed dates in-between then and Goku’s childhood up till 12 in the first chapter of Dragonball. Most scenes with Grandpa Gohan are mostly anime-only.

B.) It’s not a plothole because we don’t SEE a direct call between them and Raditz and him being informed on the situation. Not to mention the chapter literally SHOWS that both him and Vegeta are still off-planet as kids and have no scouters on to be informed on the destruction.

C.) Because the chapter basically stops after Goku is sent away. We don’t see what happens after that point. The time of Planet Vegeta’s destruction here is clearly different from the special. This fandom’s mindset of “it didn’t happen on-panel/on-screen this it didn’t happen” is very annoying.


The fandom jumps on and attacks the Dragon Ball Minus manga in a borderline cult mentality without actually looking at it for what it’s supposed to be and it’s purpose. It’s a simple. Clear and Cut bonus chapter meant to give a short Toriyama take on Bardock and Planet Vegeta’s destruction. It’s not meant to be a big, fleshed out story.

There’s nothing objectively bad about Dragonball Minus as far as I see it. I feel this is just another big “mob mentality” criticism this fandom has because they want to be the big critical fan with the “original hot take opinion” without actually knowing what they’re talking about. Hell I even prefer the Bardock Special for the things it does, but that isn’t a surprise considering the room it has for the intricacies it has...

But I’m not going to sit here and say that Dragonball Minus is the trash tier and objectively bad just cause.

[mute_proxy]

People mainly hate it because it "over-Superman'ised" Goku's origins, which is true alien parents send a baby to earth in a pod (who later becomes it's hero) to protect from oncoming doom, then die along with the planet. That sh*t doesnt happen just on accident. But I mean future Trunks was inspired by Terminator, so who am I to judge lol

[Luso Saiyan]

I love the Bardock special, but I don't have a problem with Minus either. It is what it is. I only hope Toriyama revisits its events from the moment Goku is sent away to Bardock's last stand. Hopefully we'll get that in the new movie.

[Darnis]

I like Minus personally, but I can see why people don't. I'm hoping the Broli movie shows a little of what happend after Minus though.

[VegettoEX]

The fandom jumps on and attacks the Dragon Ball Minus manga in a borderline cult mentality without actually looking at it for what it’s supposed to be and it’s purpose.

You're free, welcome, and encouraged to share your opinions on things.

What we won't stand for, however, is blanket statements that simply aren't true. There is no "hivemind" in fandom, and there is no "borderline cult mentality" about anything.

Rest assured that plenty of people have given very thoughtful analysis to/about the "Dragon Ball Minus" bonus chapter of Jaco the Galactic Patrolman and have shared opinions that do not match your own. They are as entitled to this as much as you are your own take.

Kanzenshuu ProTip for all readers/visitors/listeners: whatever your take is, you are not alone in your assessment, and you do not need to defensively frame the entire thing as some kind of underdog against a total boogeyman. When you do this, all you wind up doing is undercutting your point before you even get there. You may wish to also seek out prior discussions that likely (read: do) exist about the subject matter, and perhaps familiarize yourself with some of these guaranteed-to-exist varying viewpoints.

[Kokonoe]

What really offends me is Super Saiyan Bardock movie / Episode of Bardock manga.

I'm not really sure how I feel about Minus in particular. I just reread it, and I'll say I like how it shows more interaction with Bardock and Goku and well, actually seeing the mother. That said, it very clearly pales in comparison to the magnificent writing and very refreshing change of theme that Bardock Father of Goku brought to the table.

[Master Xar]

The fandom jumps on and attacks the Dragon Ball Minus manga in a borderline cult mentality without actually looking at it for what it’s supposed to be and it’s purpose.

You're free, welcome, and encouraged to share your opinions on things.

What we won't stand for, however, is blanket statements that simply aren't true. There is no "hivemind" in fandom, and there is no "borderline cult mentality" about anything.

Rest assured that plenty of people have given very thoughtful analysis to/about the "Dragon Ball Minus" bonus chapter of Jaco the Galactic Patrolman and have shared opinions that do not match your own. They are as entitled to this as much as you are your own take.

Kanzenshuu ProTip for all readers/visitors/listeners: whatever your take is, you are not alone in your assessment, and you do not need to defensively frame the entire thing as some kind of underdog against a total boogeyman. When you do this, all you wind up doing is undercutting your point before you even get there. You may wish to also seek out prior discussions that likely (read: do) exist about the subject matter, and perhaps familiarize yourself with some of these guaranteed-to-exist varying viewpoints.

Okay fair enough. Sorry. I just find a lot of the general criticisms I find against Dragonball Minus seen around the fandom and they annoy me a lot.

[Master Xar]

People mainly hate it because it "over-Superman'ised" Goku's origins, which is true alien parents send a baby to earth in a pod (who later becomes it's hero) to protect from oncoming doom, then die along with the planet. That sh*t doesnt happen just on accident. But I mean future Trunks was inspired by Terminator, so who am I to judge lol

Again. Outside of the bulletpoints.

1.) Alien

2.) incredibly powerful races

3.) heroes of their own story


They couldn’t be anymore different. The only difference here being that Goku is sent to survive on a crappy planet rather than be purposely sent as a destroyer. Which served the narrative of Vegeta’s elite class and organized life vs. Goku’s low-class and disorganized life. Being sent from his parents doesn’t change the fact that he’d have grown up to be a murderous Saiyan warrior and destroy the planet if he didn’t hit his head. They even sent him out of both survival and the fact that it’d be easier to take over.

Not just one motivation to send Goku to Earth.

[mute_proxy]

Again. Outside of the bulletpoints.

1.) Alien

2.) incredibly powerful races

3.) heroes of their own story


They couldn’t be anymore different. The only difference here being that Goku is sent to survive on a crappy planet rather than be purposely sent as a destroyer. Which served the narrative of Vegeta’s elite class and organized life vs. Goku’s low-class and disorganized life. Being sent from his parents doesn’t change the fact that he’d have grown up to be a murderous Saiyan warrior and destroy the planet if he didn’t hit his head. They even sent him out of both survival and the fact that it’d be easier to take over.

Not just one motivation to send Goku to Earth.

Bulletpoints:

1.) Alien

2.) A baby

3.) Sent by parents

4.) Sense/fear of danger by father

5.) Space pod

6.) Powerful race

7.) Destruction of origin planet along with parents

8.) Baby found by someone elderly living on countryside

9.) Baby growing up to become the strongest being on Earth and it's protector

10.) Fighting the few remaining beings of his own race who are villains

Guess who's story that is.

[AnimeNation101]

Again. Outside of the bulletpoints.

1.) Alien

2.) incredibly powerful races

3.) heroes of their own story


They couldn’t be anymore different. The only difference here being that Goku is sent to survive on a crappy planet rather than be purposely sent as a destroyer. Which served the narrative of Vegeta’s elite class and organized life vs. Goku’s low-class and disorganized life. Being sent from his parents doesn’t change the fact that he’d have grown up to be a murderous Saiyan warrior and destroy the planet if he didn’t hit his head. They even sent him out of both survival and the fact that it’d be easier to take over.

Not just one motivation to send Goku to Earth.

Bulletpoints:

1.) Alien

2.) A baby

3.) Sent by parents

4.) Sense/fear of danger by father

5.) Space pod

6.) Powerful race

7.) Destruction of origin planet along with parents

8.) Baby found by someone elderly living on countryside

9.) Baby growing up to become the strongest being on Earth and it's protector

10.) Fighting the few remaining beings of his own race who are villains

Guess who's story that is.

Its so unoriginal it hurts. This makes Goku fans look bad in the eyes of Superman fans. Nothing more than an anime copy. Heck, people were already calling goku the Superman of anime before DBS downgraded his smarts and maturity.

[Master Xar]

Again. Outside of the bulletpoints.

1.) Alien

2.) incredibly powerful races

3.) heroes of their own story


They couldn’t be anymore different. The only difference here being that Goku is sent to survive on a crappy planet rather than be purposely sent as a destroyer. Which served the narrative of Vegeta’s elite class and organized life vs. Goku’s low-class and disorganized life. Being sent from his parents doesn’t change the fact that he’d have grown up to be a murderous Saiyan warrior and destroy the planet if he didn’t hit his head. They even sent him out of both survival and the fact that it’d be easier to take over.

Not just one motivation to send Goku to Earth.

Bulletpoints:

1.) Alien

2.) A baby

3.) Sent by parents

4.) Sense/fear of danger by father

5.) Space pod

6.) Powerful race

7.) Destruction of origin planet along with parents

8.) Baby found by someone elderly living on countryside

9.) Baby growing up to become the strongest being on Earth and it's protector

10.) Fighting the few remaining beings of his own race who are villains

Guess who's story that is.

1.) already said this. But their races are completely different in both power, goals, and culture.

2.) correction. Goku is legally a toddler.

3.) Both completely different parents. One murderous and bloodthirsty, another basically the opposite.

4.) So? Goku is still sent to basically conquer the planet. This is just one he is likely to survive on more.

5.) yeah how ELSE are they going to get to Earth? Lol.

6.) already said this. For two completely different reasons and origins of their power.

7.) for again two completely different reasons and circumstances.

8.) except Gohan lives in the mountains, is a martial artist, not to mention Goku accidentally kills him along with several other circumstances like the fact that Goku grows up uneducated and ignorant while Superman doesn’t.

9.) Duh. They’re the protagonists, of course they’re going to be the strongest ones there. And Goku isn’t a self-proclaimed protector nor does he take that role. He’d have done plenty of things differently if he was, namely killing gero before he made the Androids.

10.) Yet they are all completely different in personality and the circumstances are different.


Yeah if you give that basic ass summary yes. Superman did it first. So? Their stories are completely different other than the general idea and concepts. But again they’re completely different and unique in their circumstances and intricacies so I don’t see the problem.

[mute_proxy]

snip

That's the outline, the details are different. But that's like saying the anime and manga of Super are completely different stories (even though they're both following the same outlines by Toriyama). Which is not true, in essence they are the same story. So are Goku's and Superman's origins.

[Master Xar]

Again. Outside of the bulletpoints.

1.) Alien

2.) incredibly powerful races

3.) heroes of their own story


They couldn’t be anymore different. The only difference here being that Goku is sent to survive on a crappy planet rather than be purposely sent as a destroyer. Which served the narrative of Vegeta’s elite class and organized life vs. Goku’s low-class and disorganized life. Being sent from his parents doesn’t change the fact that he’d have grown up to be a murderous Saiyan warrior and destroy the planet if he didn’t hit his head. They even sent him out of both survival and the fact that it’d be easier to take over.

Not just one motivation to send Goku to Earth.

Bulletpoints:

1.) Alien

2.) A baby

3.) Sent by parents

4.) Sense/fear of danger by father

5.) Space pod

6.) Powerful race

7.) Destruction of origin planet along with parents

8.) Baby found by someone elderly living on countryside

9.) Baby growing up to become the strongest being on Earth and it's protector

10.) Fighting the few remaining beings of his own race who are villains

Guess who's story that is.

Its so unoriginal it hurts. This makes Goku fans look bad in the eyes of Superman fans. Nothing more than an anime copy. Heck, people were already calling goku the Superman of anime before DBS downgraded his smarts and maturity.

Yeah with his basic as hell summary of it yes. But if you actually look and pay attention to both their stories they are opposites outside of the concepts listed. Also why do you even care if Superman fans view Goku? They think anyone that has an alien background sent to Earth is basically the same as Superman, or at least the ignorant fans do. Superman fans that aren’t ignorant won’t say this lol.

[Master Xar]

snip

That's the outline, the details are different. But that's like saying the anime and manga of Super are completely different stories (even though they're both following the same outlines by Toriyama). Which is not true, in essence they are the same story. So are Goku's and Superman's origins.

That’s because they are dude lol. Manga and Anime have completely different events and have different intricacies to their following of Toriyama’s idea. They aren’t the same story “in essence” just because they follow an outline. You can argue they’re foils I guess but it isn’t the “same story.” Plenty of modern anime and shows take ideas and concepts and put their own spins on it to make it their own. that’s why you can’t say Naruto and Goku are the same just because they idiot protagonists in a Shonen.

Ideas aren’t as “original” as you think man.

[mute_proxy]

That’s because they are dude lol. Manga and Anime have completely different events and have different intricacies to their following of Toriyama’s idea. They aren’t the same story “in essence” just because they follow an outline. You can argue they’re foils I guess but it isn’t the “same story.” Plenty of modern anime and shows take ideas and concepts and put their own spins on it to make it their own. that’s why you can’t say Naruto and Goku are the same just because they idiot protagonists in a Shonen.

Ideas aren’t as “original” as you think man.

A different interpretation of the same story is still the same story, just in different "clothes". The essence doesn't change along with the "clothes", it's kept intact underneath.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Master Xar]

That’s because they are dude lol. Manga and Anime have completely different events and have different intricacies to their following of Toriyama’s idea. They aren’t the same story “in essence” just because they follow an outline. You can argue they’re foils I guess but it isn’t the “same story.” Plenty of modern anime and shows take ideas and concepts and put their own spins on it to make it their own. that’s why you can’t say Naruto and Goku are the same just because they idiot protagonists in a Shonen.

Ideas aren’t as “original” as you think man.

A different interpretation of the same story is still the same story, just in different "clothes". The essence doesn't change along with the "clothes", it's kept intact underneath.

In what way is the question. Every hero is different along with their journey, cannot say they are the same “because they do good things” same as villains aren’t the same “cause they do bad things”

But again I feel there is more than enough originality in that sake to say that Goku’s story is his own and not “Superman’s” or “Sun Wukong’s”

Minus didn’t really do much to change that to being more “Superman-like” more than it already was in the first place.

[mute_proxy]

Minus didn’t really do much to change that to being more “Superman-like” more than it already was in the first place.

It did a lot of things actually. At first we were to think his father didn't care at all about him, or even know he existed until he was told, there was no mother figure, he was a loner and a complete dick as were all of the saiyans. Now it shows him caring for his son, wanting him to be safe, sending him off to earth of his own accord, there's a loving mother even and so on, everything about Minus makes it more "superman" like.

[Master Xar]

Minus didn’t really do much to change that to being more “Superman-like” more than it already was in the first place.

It did a lot of things actually. At first we were to think his father didn't care at all about him, or even know he existed until he was told, there was no mother figure, he was a loner and a complete dick as were all of the saiyans. Now it shows him caring for his son, wanting him to be safe, sending him off to earth of his own accord, there's a loving mother even and so on, everything about Minus makes it more "superman" like.

Yeah I said didn’t do “much.” That’s literally one thing. It didn’t do “a lot” outside of making Bardock and Gine care about their family more and that was to show that there is a good bit inside them as to show there’d be a bit of good in Goku even if he grew up a saiyan. They are still murderous, bloodthirsty assholes, don’t know how many times I have to repeat this.

A “lot” is about 4 to 5 more things than that bare minimum which again. Doesn’t happen.

You could argue the “sent for survival” thing, but again that’s only one motivation. He is still sent there to slaughter the entire planet.

[Luso Saiyan]

At first we were to think his father didn't care at all about him, or even know he existed until he was told, there was no mother figure, he was a loner and a complete dick as were all of the saiyans.

We were to think all that? Based on what? The Bardock special that Toriyama isn't and was never bound to (despite his appreciation)?

[mute_proxy]

At first we were to think his father didn't care at all about him, or even know he existed until he was told, there was no mother figure, he was a loner and a complete dick as were all of the saiyans.

We were to think all that? Based on what? The Bardock special that Toriyama isn't and was never bound to (despite his appreciation)?

He adapted a specific shot depicting the special's events in his original manga, so yes.