Why didnt goku chach the dragon ball in dead zone

[Koitsukai]

Why would we accomodate the main continuity (pretending they have amnesia when meeting Gohan, etc) to the movies instead of the other way around (in the movie, certain things didn't happen).

The MC is the constant where everything stems from, not the variable, that's the movies. I enjoy the fun ride of thinking different possibilities, like the MC making room for the movies and see how that would be, but that's NOT how it was originally conceived nor the most logical interpretation of the events.

[MasenkoHA]

I also think it's getting needlessly caught up in little details

Could Raditz have shown up at some point later and kicked off the Saiyan arc in Z movie 1's timeline? Sure, why not, who cares, not what the movie was about.

But as the events of movie 1 present itself Goku had already taken Gohan to meet Kame Sennin, Bulma, and Krillin without Raditz crashing the party. They all know who Gohan is. Gohan and Goku are back home and Gyumao even shows up to bring Gohan presents just as he was in the main series only with books instead of toys.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

He didn't catch it because his concern was finding and rescuing Gohan from Garlic Jr. not holding on to dragon balls.

Pretty much this, the hint is in the Japanese title Return My Gohan!! (granted it was not the original title, and was just slapped on for the home release).

As Hellspawn28 pointed out it would also be pretty pointless because it takes 6 months for the stones to revert back to being Dragon Balls so Goku would have had to carry around a useless rock.

We can also throw Dr Wheelo out the window, unless you want to use KBABZ's fantastic thought experiment, which requires a lot of moving the movies time placements around and making changes to the series accordingly because, as the movies are, especially the earlier ones, they were not written to be consistent with anything. They are ultimately self-contained stories taking place within their own respective universes.

[Grimlock]

I take the movies as “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic.

That is not Daizenshuu saying that, it's Akira Toriyama. And that is one of the sources that contradicts your "feeling" that the movies are what-if stories, as Toriyama himself acknowledges them.

I wonder what else you think it's Daizenshuu claiming something, when in reality it's a Toriyama's claim...

Look, you can choose to look at the movies however you'd like. Enjoy the series any way you'd like. But, when you discuss it with most fans, they won't look at it that way. Nor should they.

Well, I don't really care about people's preferences. They can have their opinions, but in no way, shape or form their opinions are the truth or anything. Also, there's nothing official supporting these major what-if scenarios they create and I have evidence they will ignore actual statements in favor of their twisted notions of things. So it's irrelevant how they approach this.

[TheGreatness25]

I take the movies as “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic.

That is not Daizenshuu saying that, it's Akira Toriyama. And that is one of the sources that contradicts your "feeling" that the movies are what-if stories, as Toriyama himself acknowledges them.

I wonder what else you think it's Daizenshuu claiming something, when in reality it's a Toriyama's claim...

Look, you can choose to look at the movies however you'd like. Enjoy the series any way you'd like. But, when you discuss it with most fans, they won't look at it that way. Nor should they.

Well, I don't really care about people's preferences. They can have their opinions, but in no way, shape or form their opinions are the truth or anything. Also, there's nothing official supporting these major what-if scenarios they create and I have evidence they will ignore actual statements in favor of their twisted notions of things. So it's irrelevant how they approach this.

Yeah, but you're the one who is trying to have a conversation with them and you won't be on the same page. Also, you're the one that is twisting things. You're bending the story to try to make things fut that simply don't fit. You say "there's nothing official supporting..." There's plenty to support, not the least is which includes the manga not acknowledging the movies, the movies not fitting into Z without pretending some facts don't exist, and just the way the releases are structured where the movies are sold as a separate release. I mean, this is all official support of the very plausible idea that the movies don't fit in.

[Koitsukai]

We need to stop treating the Daizenshuu as the Emperor of Dragon Ball and take it with a grain of salt. It's cool to use it to fill in some blanks, but that's it.

[MasenkoHA]

The "what ifs" situation of the movies also don't need some sort of official statements when one could just watch the damn movies and use context clues.

Like Z movie 7. It's explicitly set during Gohan's summer vacation placing it a month or two AFTER the Androids attacked South City, Goku's still alive, Gohan can't turn Super Saiyan much less Super Saiyan 2, there's no acknowledgement Cell even existed and Gero's secret basement only shows Androids 13-15.

Obviously the real reason for all this is the movie was released long before Goku sacrificed himself and Gohan reached Super Saiyan 1 and 2 and presumably the movie was in production before Toei knew of Cell so they just created a movie that took place "after current events of the main story' with the information they had i.e. 3 Super Saiyans, Androids being the main threat, nothing past Super Saiyan.

But once the rest of the events of the Android/Cell saga played out there's no plausible way for the movie to work without ignoring major key details (placing it during the 10 day wait for the Cell Games is a popular one but you have to actively ignore Gohan's Android saga haircut, inability to reach Super Saiyan and the movie taking place in July/August ish instead of May)

So for those who actually watch the movie the logical conclusion to reach, in hindsight, is the movie is a "What if Androids 16-18 were destroyed by Piccolo or Goku and Cell never existed or was dealt with long before he could become a proper threat"

[Grimlock]

Also, you're the one that is twisting things. You're bending the story to try to make things fut that simply don't fit.

There is a huge difference in what I am doing and what you are doing:

• You: Raditz never showed up.

• Me: Bulma and the others greet Gohan normally when he and Goku paid Muten Roshi a visit , as if they have met Gohan before (because they have) and soon after Raditz shows up.

I am making "adjustments" too but one that is much, much more grounded, plausible, coherent and sensible than whatever you are doing. And I'm doing that because the nature of the movies allows that, the very existence of beings that might not exist elsewhere indicates that it is possible for the events of the series in that dimension to have occurred a little bit differently than the series you know.

Electing to ignore Shenlong being summoned in Movie 3 does not affect the overall plot at all, with or without Shenlong being summoned to restore a forest, Turles will still attack Earth. Because one event is not dependant on the other. Conversely, Raditz not showing up destroys the entire story, it is a major event, and one that is not dependant on whether Bulma and the others met Gohan or not. Raditz will still show up on Earth regardless if they met the kid or not. You cannot change that, no matter your preference. In fact, you cannot even make that up, again, it is not supported by anyone or anything, and it's in direct contradiction to what has been stated. We gotta work with what we have, and with what we don't have, we should assume the least of changes, not the most drastic ones.

You say "there's nothing official supporting..." There's plenty to support, not the least is which includes the manga not acknowledging the movies,

Irrelevant. The manga doesn't need to acknowledge the movies. Their "existence", in-universe speaking, is independant of the manga acknowledging or not. So far, there haven't been any kind of interaction between the manga and the movies, but that obviously doesn't mean the latter simply "don't exist". Dragon Ball is not a single, straight line that doesn't branch off. Quite the contrary, Dragon Ball is a legit tree, whether you people accept this or not. On top of that, the manga also hasn't said that there isn't anything out there either, so...

the movies not fitting into Z without pretending some facts don't exist

Alright, if you don't want to concede that some changes can be made to fit the movies, then I also don't want to see you saying Jaco, the Galactic Patrolman, Movie 14 (and many other works/instances) fit in with series, alright? They all have something that contradict the series, so they shouldn't be put in the same continuity as the series, even if a few of the issues could be easily fixed...

[TheGreatness25]

Also, you're the one that is twisting things. You're bending the story to try to make things fut that simply don't fit.

There is a huge difference in what I am doing and what you are doing:

• You: Raditz never showed up.

• Me: Bulma and the others greet Gohan normally when he and Goku paid Muten Roshi a visit , as if they have met Gohan before (because they have) and soon after Raditz shows up.

I am making "adjustments" too but one that is much, much more grounded, plausible, coherent and sensible than whatever you are doing. And I'm doing that because the nature of the movies allows that, the very existence of beings that might not exist elsewhere indicates that it is possible for the events of the series in that dimension to have occurred a little bit differently than the series you know.

Electing to ignore Shenlong being summoned in Movie 3 does not affect the overall plot at all, with or without Shenlong being summoned to restore a forest, Turles will still attack Earth. Because one event is not dependant on the other. Conversely, Raditz not showing up destroys the entire story, it is a major event, and one that is not dependant on whether Bulma and the others met Gohan or not. Raditz will still show up on Earth regardless if they met the kid or not. You cannot change that, no matter your preference. In fact, you cannot even make that up, again, it is not supported by anyone or anything, and it's in direct contradiction to what has been stated. We gotta work with what we have, and with what we don't have, we should assume the least of changes, not the most drastic ones.

Me: "The material that I'm looking at shows that these two events could not have happened in the same universe/timeline/continuity/etc.

You: "I can make up a bunch of stuff because I have difficulty reconciling the fact that the movies simply have nothing to do with the main story presented.

You say "there's nothing official supporting..." There's plenty to support, not the least is which includes the manga not acknowledging the movies,

Irrelevant. The manga doesn't need to acknowledge the movies. Their "existence", in-universe speaking, is independant of the manga acknowledging or not. So far, there haven't been any kind of interaction between the manga and the movies, but that obviously doesn't mean the latter simply "don't exist". Dragon Ball is not a single, straight line that doesn't branch off. Quite the contrary, Dragon Ball is a legit tree, whether you people accept this or not. On top of that, the manga also hasn't said that there isn't anything out there either, so...

I don't understand. Dragon Ball is as much of one single straight line that you can get because with very, very few exceptions, each chapter and episode builds on the last as opposed to having standalone stories.

the movies not fitting into Z without pretending some facts don't exist

Alright, if you don't want to concede that some changes can be made to fit the movies, then I also don't want to see you saying Jaco, the Galactic Patrolman, Movie 14 (and many other works/instances) fit in with series, alright? They all have something that contradict the series, so they shouldn't be put in the same continuity as the series, even if a few of the issues could be easily fixed...

Okay. Oh, believe me, you won't see me arguing that Movie 14 fits into the continuity because, much like the previous movies, it doesn't. I mean, there's a much stronger argument to be made why it does, but yeah, I really don't care enough about that. And I also don't see how Jaco can't fit into the story, but okay.

I'm just curious how you make DB movie 1 and 4 fit into the main continuity. What headcanon are we going with for those? Come to think of it, how do you make any of them fit?

[Grimlock]

Me: "The material that I'm looking at shows that these two events could not have happened in the same universe/timeline/continuity/etc.

You: "I can make up a bunch of stuff because I have difficulty reconciling the fact that the movies simply have nothing to do with the main story presented.

False. I never said that the movies, as they are presented, don't have problems with the series (although I do say that, most of the movies, as they are, don't necessarily contradict each other. Like I said, I'm yet to see how exactly they contradict each other, according to you). I acknowledge that they have problems with the series. Just because that's the case, it doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't try to reconcile them.

You seem to have a problem reading or having a comprehensive skill to understand what I'm saying. At no point am I trying to reconcile the movies with the series that you know, I'm trying to reconcile them with another version of the series, one that may have happened differently. This is third time I'm saying this, but you insist I'm trying to lump them with the "main series" that you know. This is also the last time. You're clearly and willingly refusing to understand what I'm saying and how I'm putting it.

I don't understand. Dragon Ball is as much of one single straight line that you can get because with very, very few exceptions, each chapter and episode builds on the last as opposed to having standalone stories.

Of course you don't, like I also said, comic book logic (multiple realities, them interacting with one another... Well, Multiverse/dimension on their own) is not a subject for everyone. It's not everyone that will grasp that concept. But that's exactly how Dragon Ball operates, ever since Toriyama said that in 1995, as conveniently evidenced by Hellspawn28 above, and supported by other official media, which at the very least suggest that that is how Shueisha approach this subject.

And I also don't see how Jaco can't fit into the story, but okay

Let's see, if Bulma and the others knowing Gohan beforehand is enough for Movie 1 to be "dismissed", then Bulma's age in Jaco, the Galactic Patrolman should also be enough to dismiss that entire manga. Her age in there is wrong and contradicts her age in the original series. And speaking of ages, that should be one of many reasons as to why Movie 14 and Dragon Ball Super (especially if it maintains that Bulma is "thirty-eight years old") must not be lumped together with the original series too.

Hell, "age" is one of the major problems we have to deal with. If they are enough to disconsider entire projects, say goodbye to pretty much everything, from Majin Buu saga (it gets Gohan's age wrong) to the entirety of Dragon Ball Super.

I'm just curious how you make DB movie 1 and 4 fit into the main continuity.

• Movie 1 - it takes place before Raditz' arrival. Once Goku and Gohan arrive at Muten Roshi's home, they all greet each other and Raditz appears, going exactly as the series as we know it went.

• Movie 2 - This one is indeed impossible. As the Dragon Balls take a year to recharge, either they were used to bring Goku back, or that sidekick used them to revive Wheelo. I can't think of anything to solve this one at this moment.

• Movie 3 - Shenlong isn't summoned to restore the forest. Thus it happens after Saiyan saga and before Freeza saga.

• Movie 4 - Goku goes back to Earth earlier than his counterpart did, he didn't spend full two years with the Yadorats. As he didn't finish his training, he's still unable to access Super Saiyan at will, and at that point, could only tap into some of its power, otherwise known as False Super Saiyan. So it takes place at any point between AGE 763 and AGE 764.

Come to think of it, how do you make any of them fit?

Read everything there. I'm not gonna make a long ass and detailed post for you to not read it and/or to easily dismiss it. I just took the time to explain the four movies above as they are the ones we've been talking about.

[TheGreatness25]

Me: "The material that I'm looking at shows that these two events could not have happened in the same universe/timeline/continuity/etc.

You: "I can make up a bunch of stuff because I have difficulty reconciling the fact that the movies simply have nothing to do with the main story presented.

False. I never said that the movies, as they are presented, don't have problems with the series (although I do say that, most of the movies, as they are, don't necessarily contradict each other. Like I said, I'm yet to see how exactly they contradict each other, according to you). I acknowledge that they have problems with the series. Just because that's the case, it doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't try to reconcile them.

You seem to have a problem reading or having a comprehensive skill to understand what I'm saying. At no point am I trying to reconcile the movies with the series that you know, I'm trying to reconcile them with another version of the series, one that may have happened differently. This is third time I'm saying this, but you insist I'm trying to lump them with the "main series" that you know. This is also the last time. You're clearly and willingly refusing to understand what I'm saying and how I'm putting it.

I don't understand. Dragon Ball is as much of one single straight line that you can get because with very, very few exceptions, each chapter and episode builds on the last as opposed to having standalone stories.

Of course you don't, like I also said, comic book logic (multiple realities, them interacting with one another... Well, Multiverse/dimension on their own) is not a subject for everyone. It's not everyone that will grasp that concept. But that's exactly how Dragon Ball operates, ever since Toriyama said that in 1995, as conveniently evidenced by Hellspawn28 above, and supported by other official media, which at the very least suggest that that is how Shueisha approach this subject.

And I also don't see how Jaco can't fit into the story, but okay

Let's see, if Bulma and the others knowing Gohan beforehand is enough for Movie 1 to be "dismissed", then Bulma's age in Jaco, the Galactic Patrolman should also be enough to dismiss that entire manga. Her age in there is wrong and contradicts her age in the original series. And speaking of ages, that should be one of many reasons as to why Movie 14 and Dragon Ball Super (especially if it maintains that Bulma is "thirty-eight years old") must not be lumped together with the original series too.

Hell, "age" is one of the major problems we have to deal with. If they are enough to disconsider entire projects, say goodbye to pretty much everything, from Majin Buu saga (it gets Gohan's age wrong) to the entirety of Dragon Ball Super.

I'm just curious how you make DB movie 1 and 4 fit into the main continuity.

• Movie 1 - it takes place before Raditz' arrival. Once Goku and Gohan arrive at Muten Roshi's home, they all greet each other and Raditz appears, going exactly as the series as we know it went.

• Movie 2 - This one is indeed impossible. As the Dragon Balls take a year to recharge, either they were used to bring Goku back, or that sidekick used them to revive Wheelo. I can't think of anything to solve this one at this moment.

• Movie 3 - Shenlong isn't summoned to restore the forest. Thus it happens after Saiyan saga and before Freeza saga.

• Movie 4 - Goku goes back to Earth earlier than his counterpart did, he didn't spend full two years with the Yadorats. As he didn't finish his training, he's still unable to access Super Saiyan at will, and at that point, could only tap into some of its power, otherwise known as False Super Saiyan. So it takes place at any point between AGE 763 and AGE 764.

Come to think of it, how do you make any of them fit?

Read everything there. I'm not gonna make a long ass and detailed post for you to not read it and/or to easily dismiss it. I just took the time to explain the four movies above as they are the ones we've been talking about.

No, DB movies 1-4, not DBZ.

[TheGreatness25]

Me: "The material that I'm looking at shows that these two events could not have happened in the same universe/timeline/continuity/etc.

You: "I can make up a bunch of stuff because I have difficulty reconciling the fact that the movies simply have nothing to do with the main story presented.

False. I never said that the movies, as they are presented, don't have problems with the series (although I do say that, most of the movies, as they are, don't necessarily contradict each other. Like I said, I'm yet to see how exactly they contradict each other, according to you). I acknowledge that they have problems with the series. Just because that's the case, it doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't try to reconcile them.

You seem to have a problem reading or having a comprehensive skill to understand what I'm saying. At no point am I trying to reconcile the movies with the series that you know, I'm trying to reconcile them with another version of the series, one that may have happened differently. This is third time I'm saying this, but you insist I'm trying to lump them with the "main series" that you know. This is also the last time. You're clearly and willingly refusing to understand what I'm saying and how I'm putting it.

I don't understand. Dragon Ball is as much of one single straight line that you can get because with very, very few exceptions, each chapter and episode builds on the last as opposed to having standalone stories.

Of course you don't, like I also said, comic book logic (multiple realities, them interacting with one another... Well, Multiverse/dimension on their own) is not a subject for everyone. It's not everyone that will grasp that concept. But that's exactly how Dragon Ball operates, ever since Toriyama said that in 1995, as conveniently evidenced by Hellspawn28 above, and supported by other official media, which at the very least suggest that that is how Shueisha approach this subject.

And I also don't see how Jaco can't fit into the story, but okay

Let's see, if Bulma and the others knowing Gohan beforehand is enough for Movie 1 to be "dismissed", then Bulma's age in Jaco, the Galactic Patrolman should also be enough to dismiss that entire manga. Her age in there is wrong and contradicts her age in the original series. And speaking of ages, that should be one of many reasons as to why Movie 14 and Dragon Ball Super (especially if it maintains that Bulma is "thirty-eight years old") must not be lumped together with the original series too.

Hell, "age" is one of the major problems we have to deal with. If they are enough to disconsider entire projects, say goodbye to pretty much everything, from Majin Buu saga (it gets Gohan's age wrong) to the entirety of Dragon Ball Super.

I'm just curious how you make DB movie 1 and 4 fit into the main continuity.

• Movie 1 - it takes place before Raditz' arrival. Once Goku and Gohan arrive at Muten Roshi's home, they all greet each other and Raditz appears, going exactly as the series as we know it went.

• Movie 2 - This one is indeed impossible. As the Dragon Balls take a year to recharge, either they were used to bring Goku back, or that sidekick used them to revive Wheelo. I can't think of anything to solve this one at this moment.

• Movie 3 - Shenlong isn't summoned to restore the forest. Thus it happens after Saiyan saga and before Freeza saga.

• Movie 4 - Goku goes back to Earth earlier than his counterpart did, he didn't spend full two years with the Yadorats. As he didn't finish his training, he's still unable to access Super Saiyan at will, and at that point, could only tap into some of its power, otherwise known as False Super Saiyan. So it takes place at any point between AGE 763 and AGE 764.

Come to think of it, how do you make any of them fit?

Read everything there. I'm not gonna make a long ass and detailed post for you to not read it and/or to easily dismiss it. I just took the time to explain the four movies above as they are the ones we've been talking about.

No, DB movies 1-4, not DBZ.

[TheGreatness25]

Me: "The material that I'm looking at shows that these two events could not have happened in the same universe/timeline/continuity/etc.

You: "I can make up a bunch of stuff because I have difficulty reconciling the fact that the movies simply have nothing to do with the main story presented.

False. I never said that the movies, as they are presented, don't have problems with the series (although I do say that, most of the movies, as they are, don't necessarily contradict each other. Like I said, I'm yet to see how exactly they contradict each other, according to you). I acknowledge that they have problems with the series. Just because that's the case, it doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't try to reconcile them.

You seem to have a problem reading or having a comprehensive skill to understand what I'm saying. At no point am I trying to reconcile the movies with the series that you know, I'm trying to reconcile them with another version of the series, one that may have happened differently. This is third time I'm saying this, but you insist I'm trying to lump them with the "main series" that you know. This is also the last time. You're clearly and willingly refusing to understand what I'm saying and how I'm putting it.

I don't understand. Dragon Ball is as much of one single straight line that you can get because with very, very few exceptions, each chapter and episode builds on the last as opposed to having standalone stories.

Of course you don't, like I also said, comic book logic (multiple realities, them interacting with one another... Well, Multiverse/dimension on their own) is not a subject for everyone. It's not everyone that will grasp that concept. But that's exactly how Dragon Ball operates, ever since Toriyama said that in 1995, as conveniently evidenced by Hellspawn28 above, and supported by other official media, which at the very least suggest that that is how Shueisha approach this subject.

And I also don't see how Jaco can't fit into the story, but okay

Let's see, if Bulma and the others knowing Gohan beforehand is enough for Movie 1 to be "dismissed", then Bulma's age in Jaco, the Galactic Patrolman should also be enough to dismiss that entire manga. Her age in there is wrong and contradicts her age in the original series. And speaking of ages, that should be one of many reasons as to why Movie 14 and Dragon Ball Super (especially if it maintains that Bulma is "thirty-eight years old") must not be lumped together with the original series too.

Hell, "age" is one of the major problems we have to deal with. If they are enough to disconsider entire projects, say goodbye to pretty much everything, from Majin Buu saga (it gets Gohan's age wrong) to the entirety of Dragon Ball Super.

I'm just curious how you make DB movie 1 and 4 fit into the main continuity.

• Movie 1 - it takes place before Raditz' arrival. Once Goku and Gohan arrive at Muten Roshi's home, they all greet each other and Raditz appears, going exactly as the series as we know it went.

• Movie 2 - This one is indeed impossible. As the Dragon Balls take a year to recharge, either they were used to bring Goku back, or that sidekick used them to revive Wheelo. I can't think of anything to solve this one at this moment.

• Movie 3 - Shenlong isn't summoned to restore the forest. Thus it happens after Saiyan saga and before Freeza saga.

• Movie 4 - Goku goes back to Earth earlier than his counterpart did, he didn't spend full two years with the Yadorats. As he didn't finish his training, he's still unable to access Super Saiyan at will, and at that point, could only tap into some of its power, otherwise known as False Super Saiyan. So it takes place at any point between AGE 763 and AGE 764.

Come to think of it, how do you make any of them fit?

Read everything there. I'm not gonna make a long ass and detailed post for you to not read it and/or to easily dismiss it. I just took the time to explain the four movies above as they are the ones we've been talking about.

No, DB movies 1-4, not DBZ.