Goku and Vejiita: the rivalry

[Sun_Wukong]

This seems to be a topic that I've seen on every single message board. At what point was Vejiita stronger than Goku and vice versa. Here I've devided it by each saga

Saiyan saga: Personally, I think they were dead even durinig their fight. If neither Gohan or Vejiita had "gone ape", it may have resulted in a draw. It was pretty clear that Goku lost the first match

Early Freeza(Namek): We didnt really see much of Goku during this, considering he was hospitalized. Considering Vejiita recoverd from their fight faster, I think its safe to say he's stronger

Middle Freeza(Ginyu): Goku, no question, considering how easily he took out the Ginyu Force.

Freeza saga: Again, Goku. After all, Vejiita was dead for a majority of the fight, not to mention Goku did go SSJ

Android era: Vejiita. Goku catching the heart virus really made it difficult for him to catch up.

Early Cell: Vejiita, same as above

Middle Cell: Tie, they were both able to reach USSJ but Goku never really fought during this time

Cell Games: Definately Goku. Not even USSJ Vejiita could tackle Perfect Cell.

Early Buu(Tournament): Goku, considering he probably discovered both SSJ2 and 3 before this

Middle Buu(Fusion):Again, Goku, he did transform into SSJ3 against Buu.

End of series: Tie. When they team up against Kid Buu, they're equivillant in strength for most of it.

So with 5 wins, Goku is proven the strongest.

Questions? Comments??

[Dayspring]

Saiyan saga: Personally, I think they were dead even durinig their fight. If neither Gohan or Vejiita had "gone ape", it may have resulted in a draw. It was pretty clear that Goku lost the first match

Not at all. Since Kaioken x3 Goku was dominating the battle. That's why Vegeta tried to kill him and/or destroy the planet in one blast. Goku stopped that from happening by using Kaioken x4. If Vegeta hadn't gone Oozaru, Goku would have smacked him royally.

Early Freeza(Namek): We didnt really see much of Goku during this, considering he was hospitalized. Considering Vejiita recoverd from their fight faster, I think its safe to say he's stronger

Vegeta only recovered faster because he was in a regeneration tank. this isn't an issue of who's stronger, just which planet had better technology.

End of series: Tie. When they team up against Kid Buu, they're equivillant in strength for most of it.

Not at all. Goku could still go SSJ3.

[Jerseymilk]

I agree with Dayspring on that last point. Vegita even states it for us that Goku is stronger than him. When Vegita states something like that, you don't doubt it's validity.

[Hujio]

Cell Games: Definately Goku. Not even USSJ Vejiita could tackle Perfect Cell.

Now if we're speaking soley on strength alone then I believe this one could go to Vegeta or Goku. If I remember correctly USSJ was as powerful as SSJ2 except SSJ2 makes up for the lack of quickness and speed. At this time both Vegeta and Goku could transform into USSJ, however when Goku fought Cell during the Cell Games he opted to not use USSJ to maintain his speed as a Super Saiya-jin (which at this point I would consider Goku a Full Power SSJ). As Cell said "Power is one thing, but if you can't hit your opponent it's useless." (or something like that) In the long run I'd guess it would be sort of a toss up because techniquely as USSJ's they were probably equal strength-wise, but as SSJ's I'd say Goku had the advantage. Hope that helps or at least makes some sense to someone...

[oponok]

Vegeta was stronger in their first fight. He was 18,000, Goku was something like 5,000, barring their transformations.

Besides, if it's fair for Goku to use his little Kaioken power-up to win, then why isn't it fair for Vegeta to use the ape transformation? Both of them cheated, but Vegeta cheated better.

Also, Goku would have probably tired himself out trying to beat someone more than 3 times stronger than him with such an exhausting technique. Even after Vegeta lost his ape form, he took part of a spirit bomb, still kicked Krillin and Gohan's asses, and STILL managed to stop Oozaru Gohan. That's tenacity. That's why I think Vegeta's the best villian. He didn't seem immortal. Every attack obviously took its toll, but he STILL kept coming back for more. None of this, "cloud of dust disappears and I'm perfectly fine" rubbish.

Goku vs. Vegeta 1?

Vegeta all the way.

Goku vs. Majin Vegeta?

Goku was stronger, but Vegeta was the better fighter. Goku stays at Vegeta's level for the fight, but in nearly every scene they show, Vegeta is beating the raging crap out of Goku.

But Goku was still superior in strength. Far superior. It just didn't matter against Buu.

If you think about it, the only reason Vegeta stays behind Goku for the Buu saga is that Goku comes up with that training secret (sustain Super Saiyan mode as though it's normal so it doesn't waste so much Ki, then power up from there). If only he had figured that out, we would have had Super Saiyan 3 Majin Vegeta vs. Super Saiyan 3 Goku. But then, that means Vegeta would have just knocked out Goku like he did and obliterated Fat Buu.

Then again, I like Fat Buu as a villian more than the other Buus, so maybe it's better that they wouldn't exist.

Stupid Vegeta.

[Alias]

Goku vs. Majin Vegeta?

Goku was stronger, but Vegeta was the better fighter. Goku stays at Vegeta's level for the fight, but in nearly every scene they show, Vegeta is beating the raging crap out of Goku.

But Goku was still superior in strength. Far superior. It just didn't matter against Buu.

Actually, that's wrong. During Majin Vegeta's monologue, he said that Goku was the better warrior and he had realized that no matter what he did, that difference would always exist. He said that was why he became a Majin, because it would make him stronger than Goku, enough that actual ability wouldn't matter.

Vegeta may have fought fiercer, but Goku was durable enough even without showing his true power that by the end of the fight, neither was better off.

[oponok]

The difference he was refering to was strength, not skill. The added majin power-up was supposed to close that gap of power.

But it apparently didn't.

[James R. Cadwell]

Middle Freeza(Ginyu): Goku, no question, considering how easily he took out the Ginyu Force.

Vegeta was probably stronger after recovering from his fight with the Ginyu Force. Goku was less than 200,000 when he first reached Namek, and was 300,000 after healing on Freeza's ship. Vegeta was able to catch a blow from Freeza's first form (530,000) and wasn't overpowered after a brief struggle. There's no way Vegeta could have done that with less than 60% (~300,000) of Freeza's power. A difference that large has led to easy defeats in the past, so Vegeta must have been closer to 500,000.

End of series: Tie. When they team up against Kid Buu, they're equivillant in strength for most of it.

Vegeta could barely touch Kid Buu. Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku was doing fairly well until he ran out of energy.

Anime: Goku fights evenly with Kid Buu at the second level of Super Saiya-jin. Goku is much more powerful than Vegeta, even at the same stage of SSJ.

Manga: Goku has SSJ3, Vegeta doesn't. Goku is still more powerful.

Now if we're speaking soley on strength alone then I believe this one could go to Vegeta or Goku. If I remember correctly USSJ was as powerful as SSJ2 except SSJ2 makes up for the lack of quickness and speed. At this time both Vegeta and Goku could transform into USSJ, however when Goku fought Cell during the Cell Games he opted to not use USSJ to maintain his speed as a Super Saiya-jin.

Vegeta admits that Goku is stronger than him. Presumably this difference would still exist if they were both using USSJ.

[Alias]

The difference he was refering to was strength, not skill. The added majin power-up was supposed to close that gap of power.

But it apparently didn't.

I think he was referring to skill because he also said that Goku was a genius fighter, above him.

[Sun_Wukong]

I'm still staying with Goku and Vejiita being even the first time they fought. Sure Goku had his Kaioken and Vejiita had his Oozaru, but when they fought hand to hand, no fancy power ups, they were dead on.

However, their second fight was a different story. Goku was using a dead body and Vejiita had just had a major power increase. He obviously had the upper hand. If Goku had unleashed SSJ3, he wouldve killed Vejiita.

I now take back that Goku and Vejiita were even at the end of the series. When they both took Buu on as SSJ2 they were, otherwise, Goku was strongest.

All of my statments I'm keeping. Isnt it quite clear how easily Goku took out Recoome when Vejiita almost died trying to take him on?

[James R. Cadwell]

I'm still staying with Goku and Vejiita being even the first time they fought. Sure Goku had his Kaioken and Vejiita had his Oozaru, but when they fought hand to hand, no fancy power ups, they were dead on.

Goku had to use Kaioken to compensate for the difference in power.

All of my statments I'm keeping. Isnt it quite clear how easily Goku took out Recoome when Vejiita almost died trying to take him on?

Yes, but I don't think anyone contests that Goku was stronger than Vegeta when they each first fought the Ginyu Force. After Vegeta has a senzu and a little rest, however, he's strong enough to resist being over-powered by Freeza.

[oponok]

Goku has called Vegeta a genius, too. And Piccolo too has said he's brilliant. And Piccolo doesn't hand out complements, often, that green bugger.

[Alias]

Oponok,

I just reread that part of the manga. You were right.

Goku: "I don't believe it. I thought I'd done impossibly hard training in the afterlife... but it looks like we're evenly matched. You've trained harder than I have this time."

Vegeta: "You're wrong. I trained harder than you did, but you're a better fighter than I am. No matter what I do, that difference will always exist... I knew what I had to do when I saw you fight that monster that Babidi sent... I was really shocked, so I made the hardest decision I've ever made..."

Goku: "I see...! When Babidi..."

Vegeta: "Yeah. The people that knew the two that Babidi possessed, saw them fight and said that they were much stronger than before. I remembered that, and that thought.... If I allowed myself to become possessed by Babidi, then the difference between us would cease to exist. That's the way it happened."