Favorite filler?
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Kunzait_83
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
I don't have much to say in response, except to acknowledge our differing interpretations.
I think the scene works much better as a piece of Vegeta's arc than the others', in large part because we've already seen Piccolo and Krillin having close connections to Gohan for most of the Saiyan Saga, the whole Namek and Freeza Sagas, the Garlic Jr. Saga in the anime.... I like it better as 'this character is changing' than 'yep, the heroes are still heroic'.
But, on a slightly different tack,
I think the scene works much better as a piece of Vegeta's arc than the others', in large part because we've already seen Piccolo and Krillin having close connections to Gohan for most of the Saiyan Saga, the whole Namek and Freeza Sagas, the Garlic Jr. Saga in the anime.... I like it better as 'this character is changing' than 'yep, the heroes are still heroic'.
But, on a slightly different tack,
What other times were these? He fights until he can't move anymore vs Earth's warriors and vs Recoome, until he's knocked unconscious vs Zarbon, 18 and Perfect Cell, all the way to his death vs Fat Buu, and until he can't even go Super Saiyan anymore vs Kid Buu. The only exception is Freeza (I don't count the movies because of Toei's Goku fetish.).And again, it’s far from the only time Vegeta has been portrayed as perfectly willing to bend over and accept an ass reaming when faced with hopeless odds rather than defiantly going down fighting to the bitter end.
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Kunzait_83
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
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djkalteraphine
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My top seven favorite filler adventures 
7. The roaming lake, with Namu and Garin
I make no bones about being Namu's biggest fanboy. The character arc-type of the silent hero who will do anything for his home and his people is one of my favorite things about anime. And getting a Goku/Namu team up (with Garin's home, too!) was some cool stuff!
6. Saiyajin's of the past vs Z-Senshi
Possibly the most classic piece of filler (if only because of how many times it was played on American TV.
) that really drove home the threat of arriving Saiyajins. Getting to see the humans use their signature moves again was cool, too!
5. Master Thief, Haski
Superb mini-arc that I can watch over and over again. Not only do we get to see the classic team back together, AND Goku's balls, but we get one of the coolest chase scenes in the show! Plus, it's a part of Red Ribbon Army, which produced a lot of great filler.
4. Dr. Frappe
Speaking of the RR saga, this is one of my favorite episodes, period. I understand that some people have a problem with the character's existence (believing it contradicts Dr. Gero in Z), but I think it only makes sense that there'd be other Scientists working on such a big project like 8-chan. And his grief can imply that he was perhaps bullied by other, much more nefarious scientists (Dr. Gero, anyone?) - but rant aside, any more time spent in Jingle Village is great, Dr. Frappe is an interesting character, and Purple was a great villain.
3. Great Saiyaman saga
Gohan goes on a date, saves baby dinosaurs, tries to get out of class to save Satan City, plays baseball, and is a friggin' super hero! Admittedly, I've never read this part of the manga, though I understand a lot of it is filler. Well, those are the parts I'm ranking.
2. Mr. Satan, the world's true champion
So, it's only kinda filler, because it's GT, so the traditional concept of manga-to-anime filler is void. But, it's intent is to fill between the first and second half of GT, hence, filler! This is one of my favorite episodes of the DB metaseries, and certainly my favorite episode of GT! Mr. Satan may be a fraud, but he ignites hope and passion in the people of Earth, which makes him a true champion!
1. Tao runs up Karin tower
Again, RR Army stuff. The episodes (and chapters) surrounding Goku, Tao, Karin, Upa, and Bora are my favorite episodes in all of Dragon Ball/Z/GT. Tao, one of my favorite villains, Upa and Bora, my favorite side characters, Karin, my favorite of Goku's various Sensei, and the first time Goku doesn't fight for fun - but because he's the only one who can do it! That said, I love the anime's extension of it, making Tao try to get the same power up as Goku, only to have Karin mess with him. Tao is awesome, but Karin is way more awesome!
Whew! Trying to remember and properly list all the filler and check away less qualified ones was hard work! But I must also note that I love all Pilaf-related filler. But since there's no specific piece of it I love more than the others, I'll give the whole lot of it an "Honorable Mention"!
7. The roaming lake, with Namu and Garin
I make no bones about being Namu's biggest fanboy. The character arc-type of the silent hero who will do anything for his home and his people is one of my favorite things about anime. And getting a Goku/Namu team up (with Garin's home, too!) was some cool stuff!
6. Saiyajin's of the past vs Z-Senshi
Possibly the most classic piece of filler (if only because of how many times it was played on American TV.
) that really drove home the threat of arriving Saiyajins. Getting to see the humans use their signature moves again was cool, too! 5. Master Thief, Haski
Superb mini-arc that I can watch over and over again. Not only do we get to see the classic team back together, AND Goku's balls, but we get one of the coolest chase scenes in the show! Plus, it's a part of Red Ribbon Army, which produced a lot of great filler.
4. Dr. Frappe
Speaking of the RR saga, this is one of my favorite episodes, period. I understand that some people have a problem with the character's existence (believing it contradicts Dr. Gero in Z), but I think it only makes sense that there'd be other Scientists working on such a big project like 8-chan. And his grief can imply that he was perhaps bullied by other, much more nefarious scientists (Dr. Gero, anyone?) - but rant aside, any more time spent in Jingle Village is great, Dr. Frappe is an interesting character, and Purple was a great villain.
3. Great Saiyaman saga
Gohan goes on a date, saves baby dinosaurs, tries to get out of class to save Satan City, plays baseball, and is a friggin' super hero! Admittedly, I've never read this part of the manga, though I understand a lot of it is filler. Well, those are the parts I'm ranking.
2. Mr. Satan, the world's true champion
So, it's only kinda filler, because it's GT, so the traditional concept of manga-to-anime filler is void. But, it's intent is to fill between the first and second half of GT, hence, filler! This is one of my favorite episodes of the DB metaseries, and certainly my favorite episode of GT! Mr. Satan may be a fraud, but he ignites hope and passion in the people of Earth, which makes him a true champion!
1. Tao runs up Karin tower
Again, RR Army stuff. The episodes (and chapters) surrounding Goku, Tao, Karin, Upa, and Bora are my favorite episodes in all of Dragon Ball/Z/GT. Tao, one of my favorite villains, Upa and Bora, my favorite side characters, Karin, my favorite of Goku's various Sensei, and the first time Goku doesn't fight for fun - but because he's the only one who can do it! That said, I love the anime's extension of it, making Tao try to get the same power up as Goku, only to have Karin mess with him. Tao is awesome, but Karin is way more awesome!
Whew! Trying to remember and properly list all the filler and check away less qualified ones was hard work! But I must also note that I love all Pilaf-related filler. But since there's no specific piece of it I love more than the others, I'll give the whole lot of it an "Honorable Mention"!
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Herms
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The date and the dinosaurs are filler, but Gohan playing baseball and trying to get away from class are in the manga (though the anime might have added more instances of Gohan trying to get out of class). And of course, the whole idea of Gohan as a superhero is in the manga. The Great Saiyaman stuff in the anime is some of my favorite filler too, since I loved that whole idea and thought it was too short in the manga.djkalteraphine wrote:3. Great Saiyaman saga
Gohan goes on a date, saves baby dinosaurs, tries to get out of class to save Satan City, plays baseball, and is a friggin' super hero! Admittedly, I've never read this part of the manga, though I understand a lot of it is filler. Well, those are the parts I'm ranking.
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
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Kunzait_83
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
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FormallyKnownAsPrince
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Okay this is off topic, but forgive me...
Remember that Vegeta was told all his life that he was the legendary super Saiyan. He really believed that he was going to be the avenger of his father and his people by killing Frieza (and then essentially rule the universe in his place.) He planned for this his whole life under Frieza, and came incredibly close to achieving it. But he only ends up a sobbing, begging heap at Goku's feet... at the time he thought he was just gonna die and it'd be over, but then he gets resurrected by the dragonballs and has to face the fact that he failed in defeating Frieza AND realize that he wasn't some legendary Saiyan prodigy like he thought he was... So I'm not surprised that he was pissed/humiliated/extremely jealous. He expected so much out of the situation, and ended up losing horribly.
Also, it makes sense that Vegeta wouldn't want to stick around Earth, but where else would he go? He has no home, friends, or family... he had no other ambition in life next to killing Frieza...
But of course this is just how I see it... and you're right, the Cell arc doesn't really show any kind of depth to Vegeta; I guess it's kinda more up to the fan's personal opinion of Vegeta's psyche.
I don't know, maybe I've read too many fanfics but I've always thought that Vegeta had good reason to hate Goku.Kunzait_83 wrote: Some have often said that this isn’t far removed from Piccolo, but I totally disagree. Goku had only matched Vegeta in combat (without even outright defeating him). He wounded his pride and took his ego down a peg. Goku fucking KILLED Piccolo. And Piccolo hammers the point again and again early on that he’s out to return the favor and get revenge. He’s out to kill Goku, and for a time he was perfectly willing to go through any of his loved ones to do it. Vegeta whines and harps that he’s only out to “prove that he’s stronger” by the Cell arc.
Remember that Vegeta was told all his life that he was the legendary super Saiyan. He really believed that he was going to be the avenger of his father and his people by killing Frieza (and then essentially rule the universe in his place.) He planned for this his whole life under Frieza, and came incredibly close to achieving it. But he only ends up a sobbing, begging heap at Goku's feet... at the time he thought he was just gonna die and it'd be over, but then he gets resurrected by the dragonballs and has to face the fact that he failed in defeating Frieza AND realize that he wasn't some legendary Saiyan prodigy like he thought he was... So I'm not surprised that he was pissed/humiliated/extremely jealous. He expected so much out of the situation, and ended up losing horribly.
Also, it makes sense that Vegeta wouldn't want to stick around Earth, but where else would he go? He has no home, friends, or family... he had no other ambition in life next to killing Frieza...
But of course this is just how I see it... and you're right, the Cell arc doesn't really show any kind of depth to Vegeta; I guess it's kinda more up to the fan's personal opinion of Vegeta's psyche.
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Herms
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That's kind of the suggestion Daizenshuu 7 gives. In its bio for No.8, it mentions the whole thing with the anime establishing Frappe as the guy who built No.8, and says "Perhaps Dr. Frappe and Dr. Gero were colleagues on an android development team?".djkalteraphine wrote:I understand that some people have a problem with the character's existence (believing it contradicts Dr. Gero in Z), but I think it only makes sense that there'd be other Scientists working on such a big project like 8-chan.
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
Ah, here's another great filler no one has mentioned yet: Sharpner's attempts to uncover Saiyaman's identity at the Budokai. Shapner was one of the most ignored characters in the manga, but here Toei takes this random "he's just there" character, greatly expands on his personality, and writes an excellent episode around him. Fantastic stuff.
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Super Sonic
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The RoSaT filler. The manga did an awful, awful job of trying to explain why Goku and Gohan ended up so much stronger than Vegeta and Mirai Trunks, but the anime lays it all out.
Dunno if this counts, but I like the anime Trunks special better than the manga version.
The early Pilaf stuff is great. I really liked the pinball. Haven't seen most of Dragonball in the anime, so I can't comment...
Dunno if this counts, but I like the anime Trunks special better than the manga version.
The early Pilaf stuff is great. I really liked the pinball. Haven't seen most of Dragonball in the anime, so I can't comment...
Trunks & Goten forever
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DBZGokuSaiyan
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I loved the robot one! Hate to admit it... but it made me cry.Hujio wrote:Top 5 Favorite
5) DBZ Episode 288 - "You're Late, Goku! Everyone Party!!"
4) DBZ Episode 195-199 - Anoyoichi Budoukai
3) DBZ Episode 125 - "License Mastery? Goku's Newest Trial"
2) DB Episode 129 - Goku meets Kame-sennin and Mutaito in the past
1) TV Special - Kakarot's father, Bardock, challenges Freeza
Top 5 Least Favorite
5) DB Episode 150 - "The Phantom Fire-Eating Bird"
4) DBZ Episode 17 - Fake Saiya-jin battle
3) DB Episode 79 - "Kinkaku and Ginkaku's Man-Eating Gourd"
2) DBZ Episode 9 - "Sorry Robot-san – The Desert of Vanishing Tears"
1) DBZ Episodes 40-44 - Fake Planet Namek
I like how that episode showed a sort of "things happen... but keep on trying" change in Gohan.Was it? I didn't think it was mentioned at all, but I could be completely forgetting...Kendamu wrote:Ah. I guess having that actually shown would make it a bit better, but it was still explained as far as I remember.Thanos6 wrote:The anime shows that Trunks and Vegeta didn't really train together at all, so naturally Goku and Gohan would get a lot stronger since they were competing.
Trunks & Goten forever
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Kendamu
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I think it was during a conversation between Trunks and Krillin that it was revealed that they didn't really train together so much as they both just happened to train in the room at the same time. On the other hand, what they did show of Goku and Gohan showed them planning their training out and hanging out together.Thanos6 wrote:Was it? I didn't think it was mentioned at all, but I could be completely forgetting...Kendamu wrote:Ah. I guess having that actually shown would make it a bit better, but it was still explained as far as I remember.Thanos6 wrote:The anime shows that Trunks and Vegeta didn't really train together at all, so naturally Goku and Gohan would get a lot stronger since they were competing.
So, while the anime did explain it a lot better, the manga wasn't absolutely horrible about it.
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Herms
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There's also the fact that Trunks and Vegeta just stayed with the bulky Super Saiyan Second Grade and Third Grade. Trunks says it only took them a few months to surpass Super Saiyan, so apparently they just trained the rest of the time in those forms. Whereas with Goku and Gohan, Goku instantly recognized the weakness in those forms and had him and Gohan try for something better. I think that does a good job of explaining the difference in outcome.
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
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djkalteraphine
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Hah, me too.DBZGokuSaiyan wrote:I loved the robot one! Hate to admit it... but it made me cry.Hujio wrote:Top 5 Favorite
5) DBZ Episode 288 - "You're Late, Goku! Everyone Party!!"
4) DBZ Episode 195-199 - Anoyoichi Budoukai
3) DBZ Episode 125 - "License Mastery? Goku's Newest Trial"
2) DB Episode 129 - Goku meets Kame-sennin and Mutaito in the past
1) TV Special - Kakarot's father, Bardock, challenges Freeza
Top 5 Least Favorite
5) DB Episode 150 - "The Phantom Fire-Eating Bird"
4) DBZ Episode 17 - Fake Saiya-jin battle
3) DB Episode 79 - "Kinkaku and Ginkaku's Man-Eating Gourd"
2) DBZ Episode 9 - "Sorry Robot-san – The Desert of Vanishing Tears"
1) DBZ Episodes 40-44 - Fake Planet Namek
I really dig that episode.-
Kunzait_83
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.