Search found 873 matches

by Helios518
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:24 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

No offense, but this a fallacy known as arguing from ignorance: [...] In the case of Super Saiyan 4, it has no feats proving that it can destroy a universe, or even a galaxy for that matter. In comparison, it was outright stated by the narrator and even Whis and the Beerus and Super Saiyan God Goku...
by Helios518
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:18 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

My friend, SSBE and BlueKKX20 were stated to be TOEI original ONLY forms. Toriyama's true canon only has Goku and Vegeta go up to Blue. The Broly movie did not exclusively continue from the anime but generally continued from the TOP story wise. Hence why there is no BlueKK. Goku beat Jiren with his...
by Helios518
Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:20 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Goku beating Jiren by a fluke is your headcanon. The fact is he beat Jiren, was stated through Beerus. The Broly movie is only in movie form. The anime and manga has nothing to do with Broly right now. Please show me where it stated that they were not using full power? 1) If it wasn't a fluke, can ...
by Helios518
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:17 am
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Again, this is a matter of evidence from the series. If I’m going by your logic, then I could spout some unbacked non-sense like Goku is an infinite-dimensional multiverse buster, then I’ll say *you* have to prove me wrong. See that doesn’t make sense because the burden of proof is on the person ma...
by Helios518
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:01 am
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Again your forgetting, In Toriyama's movies there is no BlueKK. So where does it say in the PLOT they aren't going full power against Broly? Also, Jiren is not in the same class as Beerus being the GOALPOST for Goku. Goku already overcame Jiren. He did not surpass Beerus yet. 1. If the movie is in ...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:56 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

What you think is a "fluke" doesn't change the fact that Jiren was an opponent that Goku already beat. Where did you get this Goku and vegeta only used "5%" of their power and never went full power? 1. In that case, Goku shouldn't be striving for UI because he already "mastered" it. 2. SSBKKx20 is ...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:53 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

No I'm stating facts. The plot has Goku and Vegeta lose to Broly and beat him with Gogeta. So no matter which version of Blue they use from any medium it has to adhere to Toriyama's plot of Broly being too much for Goku and Vegeta to the extreme point they have to fuse. Jiren isn't a future opponen...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:44 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

I'm sorry, you don't go making up your own narration. It has to be stated that Jiren is a future opponent for Goku. Which is impossible since Goku already BEAT Jiren, which was stated . Secondly, doesn't matter if it was a significant gain or not. Broly arc Goku/Vegeta are still stronger than their...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:13 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

1) You're still not getting it. It doesn't matter if Broly fought a SSBKKX20 Goku/SSBE Vegeta. Those forms in the Broly arc would be STRONGER than the SSBKKX20 and SSBE used in the TOP ANYWAY. REGARDLESS of how much of a strength increase Goku and Vegeta got. Why? Cause Toriyama's PLOT of Goku and ...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:25 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

1) Except nothing contradicts Toriyama's statement about his story. Beerus was SET UP to be Goku's FUTURE Goalpost. So that doesn't break Toriyama's narration but actually continues it. Which also proves why Jiren can't be stronger than Beerus if he is a FUTURE villain for an ever stronger growing ...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:57 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

1) You didn't counter anything. You used assumptions contrary to Toriyama's story facts. Jiren CAN'T be stronger than Broly cause Toriyama himself said the next enemy is "ALWAYS" stronger than the last. He agreed that Goku is always facing the "EVER-STRONGER opponents" and the "mightiest-foe." You ...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:34 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

The point is, even if it's by 1% or 10,000%, any version of Goku and Vegeta are stronger than their TOP counterparts. Broly faced stronger opponents than what Jiren faced. Also, Beerus was setup as an goalpost for Goku, so Freeza wasn't stronger than him. However Hit was stronger than Freeza. Which...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:44 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Fact 1: Toriyama says the next enemy is always stronger here... About Beerus Interviewer: When you created Beerus, I believe it was already a given that he was “strong”. Toriyama: That’s right; the strongest in the universe, as a matter of fact, since there’s nothing higher. Interviewer: Incidental...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:32 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Dragon Ball villains usually are stronger than the heroes and they like to play around with them, giving time to the heroes to come up with something to beat them. That’s why the evil Majin Boo is promoted to be the most dangerous, because he doesn’t have that weakness. So, I ask again, why Omega S...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:02 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

1. Jiren unlocking more power still didn't change his narration of ONLY being stronger than Belmond. Still was weaker than UI Goku, who was never stated to be stronger than Beerus. The anime magazine itself didn't even know with the words "might be." Beerus is the top tier. 2. It doesn't matter if ...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:59 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

It standard to assume that when you have a goal, you want finish it in the most efficient and successful way. I should be asking you for why he wouldn't do so in that manner. Regardless, SSG has statements that he can destroy the universe in a few punches while Omega doesn't. Saying that "Omega can...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:31 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

1) Jiren's definitive statement was only stronger than Belmond. Goku beat Jiren with UI therefore stronger than Belmond. Since Beerus is Goku's benchmark [Magazine guide didn't even know if Mastered UI Goku was stronger than Beerus with a "might be"] he is stronger than both Jiren and Belmond. Ther...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:02 am
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Blowing up the planet should be even easier. Why didn’t Omega Shenron just destroy the planets one by one? Because going from planet to planet would’ve been slower than Omega’s infection method which multiplies the more it destroys. But even that method is still slower than three-shotting the unive...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:37 am
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

1) Jiren's definitive statement was only stronger than Belmond. Goku beat Jiren with UI therefore stronger than Belmond. Since Beerus is Goku's benchmark [Magazine guide didn't even know if Mastered UI Goku was stronger than Beerus with a "might be"] he is stronger than both Jiren and Belmond. Ther...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:01 am
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 30125
Views: 1396035

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

1) Because SSB is definitely stronger than SSG (who did that), that's why SSB can do it as well. Do you believe that SS3 Goku can't blow up a planet because he never did it despite being much stronger than DBZ Freeza? 2) I've already stated why. SSG's means of destroying the universe is much faster...