Search found 878 matches

by Helios518
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:27 pm
Forum: In-Universe Discussion
Topic: What ranking Saiyan was Raditz?
Replies: 7
Views: 6700

What ranking Saiyan was Raditz?

IIRC Raditz calling himself an "elite" but then Vegeta called himself an "elite" and Raditz "low-class." I feel as if both are possible because Raditz could just be boasting or Vegeta could just be demeaning so is there a definitive truth to this?
by Helios518
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:42 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?
Replies: 29
Views: 13907

Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

If we're talking about the fight itself then Dyspo vs Gohan is far better. For an opponent, I much prefer Kafla. In my ideal situation, Gohan and Kafla (both nerfed to SSG Level) fighting each other because the former is preventing the latter from trying to fight a stamina-less Goku would be way bet...
by Helios518
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:08 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

The debate is legit cause ONLY Toriyama's Broly movie is in circulation as canon. Not the anime/manga. So Goku and Vegeta were FULL power against Broly concerning the PLOT. Also, your question is irrelevant. Goku already beat Jiren intentionally with his own power. Fighting him again doesn't prove ...
by Helios518
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:30 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

If SSB Goku can barely fight Ikari Broly albeit to a standstill albeit with a slowly growing edge due to better combat skill, I've no doubt that he couldn't fight Jiren at all anywhere close to full power. Not only is Jiren an impressive martial artist in overall skill, but the power gap was so mas...
by Helios518
Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:38 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

If you don't need evidence to prove something then wouldn't that undermine any debate because then everyone could just have an opinion to determine what are facts or not? In this thread 99% of the posts are about theories and opinions. And that’s okay, I guess?! I don’t understand the need of prese...
by Helios518
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:24 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

No offense, but this a fallacy known as arguing from ignorance: [...] In the case of Super Saiyan 4, it has no feats proving that it can destroy a universe, or even a galaxy for that matter. In comparison, it was outright stated by the narrator and even Whis and the Beerus and Super Saiyan God Goku...
by Helios518
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:18 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

My friend, SSBE and BlueKKX20 were stated to be TOEI original ONLY forms. Toriyama's true canon only has Goku and Vegeta go up to Blue. The Broly movie did not exclusively continue from the anime but generally continued from the TOP story wise. Hence why there is no BlueKK. Goku beat Jiren with his...
by Helios518
Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:20 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Goku beating Jiren by a fluke is your headcanon. The fact is he beat Jiren, was stated through Beerus. The Broly movie is only in movie form. The anime and manga has nothing to do with Broly right now. Please show me where it stated that they were not using full power? 1) If it wasn't a fluke, can ...
by Helios518
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:17 am
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Again, this is a matter of evidence from the series. If I’m going by your logic, then I could spout some unbacked non-sense like Goku is an infinite-dimensional multiverse buster, then I’ll say *you* have to prove me wrong. See that doesn’t make sense because the burden of proof is on the person ma...
by Helios518
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:01 am
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Again your forgetting, In Toriyama's movies there is no BlueKK. So where does it say in the PLOT they aren't going full power against Broly? Also, Jiren is not in the same class as Beerus being the GOALPOST for Goku. Goku already overcame Jiren. He did not surpass Beerus yet. 1. If the movie is in ...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:56 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

What you think is a "fluke" doesn't change the fact that Jiren was an opponent that Goku already beat. Where did you get this Goku and vegeta only used "5%" of their power and never went full power? 1. In that case, Goku shouldn't be striving for UI because he already "mastered" it. 2. SSBKKx20 is ...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:53 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

No I'm stating facts. The plot has Goku and Vegeta lose to Broly and beat him with Gogeta. So no matter which version of Blue they use from any medium it has to adhere to Toriyama's plot of Broly being too much for Goku and Vegeta to the extreme point they have to fuse. Jiren isn't a future opponen...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:44 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

I'm sorry, you don't go making up your own narration. It has to be stated that Jiren is a future opponent for Goku. Which is impossible since Goku already BEAT Jiren, which was stated . Secondly, doesn't matter if it was a significant gain or not. Broly arc Goku/Vegeta are still stronger than their...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:13 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

1) You're still not getting it. It doesn't matter if Broly fought a SSBKKX20 Goku/SSBE Vegeta. Those forms in the Broly arc would be STRONGER than the SSBKKX20 and SSBE used in the TOP ANYWAY. REGARDLESS of how much of a strength increase Goku and Vegeta got. Why? Cause Toriyama's PLOT of Goku and ...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:25 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

1) Except nothing contradicts Toriyama's statement about his story. Beerus was SET UP to be Goku's FUTURE Goalpost. So that doesn't break Toriyama's narration but actually continues it. Which also proves why Jiren can't be stronger than Beerus if he is a FUTURE villain for an ever stronger growing ...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:57 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

1) You didn't counter anything. You used assumptions contrary to Toriyama's story facts. Jiren CAN'T be stronger than Broly cause Toriyama himself said the next enemy is "ALWAYS" stronger than the last. He agreed that Goku is always facing the "EVER-STRONGER opponents" and the "mightiest-foe." You ...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:34 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

The point is, even if it's by 1% or 10,000%, any version of Goku and Vegeta are stronger than their TOP counterparts. Broly faced stronger opponents than what Jiren faced. Also, Beerus was setup as an goalpost for Goku, so Freeza wasn't stronger than him. However Hit was stronger than Freeza. Which...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:44 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Fact 1: Toriyama says the next enemy is always stronger here... About Beerus Interviewer: When you created Beerus, I believe it was already a given that he was “strong”. Toriyama: That’s right; the strongest in the universe, as a matter of fact, since there’s nothing higher. Interviewer: Incidental...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:32 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Dragon Ball villains usually are stronger than the heroes and they like to play around with them, giving time to the heroes to come up with something to beat them. That’s why the evil Majin Boo is promoted to be the most dangerous, because he doesn’t have that weakness. So, I ask again, why Omega S...
by Helios518
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:02 pm
Forum: Dragon Ball Super
Topic: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Replies: 31336
Views: 1675239

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

1. Jiren unlocking more power still didn't change his narration of ONLY being stronger than Belmond. Still was weaker than UI Goku, who was never stated to be stronger than Beerus. The anime magazine itself didn't even know with the words "might be." Beerus is the top tier. 2. It doesn't matter if ...