Kanzenshuu

Amazing. Of course Goku used instantaneous movement. Frieza says something along the lines of it will take an hour or two for his soldiers to destroy all human life on the planet. If Goku didn't teleport, then there would be no humans in Trunks's future.

1. There is no proof that Gero's robots ...

I just remembered another crucial detail from the manga:

The Old Kai explicitly states his magic draws out a person's latent power 'beyond their limits'. This proves definitively that natural biological limits (the 'container' we've been talking about) absolutely exist.

To shatter that physical ...

This thread is a wild example of creating a problem that isn't there.

I'm pretty sure we don't know if the spy robots and cell collecting robots are even the same robots.
It's a plot point Gero at least was not using them after the saiyan saga, or at least not reviewing the footage. That's how ...

Or

Future Goku know teleporting and just used it to get rid of freeza and cold

Or

Freeza and cold fucked around long enough for him to arrive in the pod and end it

Your first option is mathematically impossible according to the manga.

Option 1: 'Future Goku knew teleporting and used it ...

If 16 has Gevo's memories, he sees himself in Gohan. He sees another gentle boy paralyzed by the fear of violence.
When 16 tells Gohan to fight, he isn't saying "violence is good." He is saying: "I died because I did nothing. My absolute pacifism didn't save me, it just made me a victim. Don't ...

The Freeza arc strongly implies there are things even the Senzu can't fix immediately. Sorry to keep going back to this, but even though Goku still had Senzu to spare, he still chose to end his training after only five days and took the sixth to rest the old fashioned way. Likewise, Vegeta needed ...

Recovery in 9 Days:
Daniel, you are completely forgetting about Senzu Beans. One single bean instantly heals all physical fatigue, muscle tears, and damage from any 'torture'. Goku could step out of the Chamber for a second year, eat a Senzu, and be at 100% condition on day one. He could spent those ...

2. About Spy Robot
The Spy Robot explicitly states in the manga that it collected cells from Frieza and King Cold, and then stopped collecting data because it had enough. Cell never claims Trunks killed Frieza in his original timeline; the robot data simply confirms Frieza died and then stop to ...

Goku didn't mathematically multiply his power in 5 days simply by performing standard training. He received a Zenkai boost on Earth and another on Namek. Furthermore, he violently abused the Zenkai mechanic, repeatedly pushing himself to the brink of death and eating Senzu Beans.

Why did he stop to ...

The idea of the gang approaching the absolute limits of their own anatomy in the Boo arc would be interesting to me if it weren't for the part about unlocking new transformations making those limits expand. Then it just becomes whatever's convenient at the time. Otherwise, I think we just have to ...

Nice try, but you are confusing natural growth with forced artificial multiplication.

Natural Base Growth:
Raising your base power doesn't destroy the body because training naturally strengthens your physical biology (the container) alongside your ki. As your ki grows, your body adapts to ...

I kinda get where you're coming at now, but the idea that Super Saiyan has a strict ceiling until it doesn't is needlessly complex imo. I think it's less that the transformations themselves suffer from a hard cap and more that the characters themselves suffer from diminishing returns in general ...

"2. Why SSJ is NOT a Pure Multiplier:
SSJ is a biological state with a strict ceiling, not an infinite math equation.
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The Ceiling (Full Power): SSJ has a hard limit. That is exactly why Grade 4 is called 'Full Power'—it means Goku reached the absolute maximum capacity of that specific ...

I never claimed SSJ is strictly a 5x multiplier; the 40 tons was just a baseline showing he was heavily suppressed.
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You are overcomplicating the narrative to save the multiplier theory. Here is how the forms actually function in the story:

​1. The Kaioken's Disappearance:
Using a quote from ...

After giving a bit of thought, I have come to the conclusion that being a "limit breaker" is also flawed. Goku didn't defeat Buu with Super Saiyan 3 and what has that led him to do? Training to get another form, instead of "improving" what he already has. If multiplier isn't set in stone, then it ...

Strict lifetime limit : In DBZ, the Room of Spirit and Time (ROSAT) has a strict 48-hour (2 years) lifetime limit. Wasting that resource blindly before knowing the Androids' true power would have been a fatal mistake. Without that backup, they would have never defeated Cell later on.

Goku knew ...

As far as theories go, I do think it fits.
Toriyama with all his whims, particularities and absurdities might very well have intended for Cell's arrival and therefore further splintering of established history as being the cause for everything turning out differently, even the event that isn't ...

Even if we assumed Goku received a miraculous mid-battle Zenkai, the 10x multiplier theory completely loses tactical sense. If his energy was truly restored, he could have simply used the Kaioken x20 again, which (under that strict mathematical rule) would have given him twice the power of the Super ...

I'm don't really feel like going into percentage gaps for a part of it series that doesn't even have power levels atm so I'll concede the first point.

You are misunderstanding how Goku's training affected the Kaioken. Training didn't make the multiplier cost less energy or lose its drawbacks ...

I don't think the narrative makes that incredibly clear at all. Neither Goku nor Vegeta do much substantial fighting as regular Super Saiyans, and the only direct comparison between the three of them only exist for their Super Saiyan 2 forms: Gohan is weaker than when he was a kid, Goku and ...