Kanzenshuu

Do you guys think that current UI Omen > ToP Mastered UI? Because even though Goku trained a lot since the Tournament, I still think that'd be a stretch to say, given how much of a "Miracle" this form is, and that the Angels were looking forward to see it in the latest chapter. Unless directly stat...

Hit took the same shots SSBKK Goku did (dialogue states this) and handled them a lot better.

If Freeza got tagged with the same chest shot Jiren did, his chest would've exploded

https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/1263776910934290432 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYnVyMLU4AA0KfV?format=png&name=900x900 A rundown of the God forms. What's interesting is the fact that it mentions Vegito rivals Beerus. Kaioshin questioned if Vegito was superior, but this gives us a more solid c...

After seeing how outmatched Ultra Instinct Goku was against Moro, it made me think about how Moro compares to the Gods of Destruction. When Super Saiyan God Goku was clashing with Toppo, Arak said the battle was already at the level of the Gods. Now Goku is way more powerful than he was in the exhi...

After lolstomping the likes of SSJ3 Goku, Ultimate Gohan, Gotenks etc 2 arcs prior, Beerus thought SSJ2 Trunks was impressive. Also, SSJ2 Goku was so strong Gowasu thought he rivaled a hakaishin and Trunks was equal to him

Anime Trunks was on another level

I dunno, Piccolo just said it's hard to tell. But after all that training, he MUST have gotten stronger. Heck, his blue form was stated to be "way stronger than last time I saw it". Maybe the gains from said training don't apply to Omen/UI because it's technically a technique and not a generic powe...

As of now, I'm not certain. Moro could be boasting, after all, but we'll see in later chapters (although him being able to fight UIO Goku like that is a veeeeery compelling argument). I'm personally of the opinion that manga!Goku could now very well defeat Jiren in his completed UI state, but I won...

So looking back at the ToP, can we safely say that Gohan and Kefla were not SSB level?

Manga Kefla was/is so weird. Reading the dialogue makes it seem like Kefla isn't stronger than Kale. In terms of fusions, she's the biggest outlier. Even Kibito Kai was stronger than Shin.

Ultra Instinct Omen Goku’s air punches didn’t even FAZE Moro! And there were many of them. It’s like it barely tickled him, though it did annoy him. Is anyone still in doubt that Moro is superior to both Jiren and Broly now??? Do we know how manga UI stacks up in comparison to Broly/Beerus? Anime s...

Speaking of UI. Where does it stack up in the manga?

In the anime it was stated to be a realm of power the hakaishin can't reach. Although since said statement came from Shueisha it should apply to the manga as well should it not?

why is this debate still a thing? Jiren was specifically stated to be above belmod. Actually: https://i.imgur.com/1ygLBc0.jpg "The strongest man in Universe 11, said to have power that exceeds even the Gods of Destruction." So even in the manga Jiren is stronger than all the GoDs and not just Belmod

This question is about the manga, which I will make time to re-read it soon, but I want opinions: Is Manga Jiren stronger than Manga Beerus? does he have any feats to put him above him? they both stomped Perfect Blue Vegeta IIRC, but I don't remember much from the manga, that's why I need to re-vis...

but hearts is just so powerful that Jiren and hit are the same to him Exactly. Same way Base Cumber was so strong SSG Goku and SSBKK Vegito were the same :) Anyways. I just read the latest manga chapter and the bit about Gohan being the strongest on Earth threw me off a bit. iirc Goku said 17 was a...

Using UI at will means it's going to be used as hype fodder for future villains. This also means Beerus will go the way of every "Goku rival" not named Vegeta and become totally irrelevant

iirc an episode guide said Trunks trained with Vegeta before heading back to the future and got stronger. Maybe his SSJ2 form got boosted up to SSB level?

After Broly's insane gains. I wouldn't rule it out

Re-watching the movie it dawned on me; Goku and Vegeta are still nowhere near Beerus despite years of improvement

A simple "He's stronger than anyone I fought" from Goku would've been nice

Promo material isn't enough when promo material tells me UI Goku and LB Jiren would stomp Broly

All this just highlights the monstrous boost Goku gets from UI

If Omen >= Beerus then UI is roughly the equivalent of Goku fusing and stacking Blue on top

Take everything into account and you get: UI Goku > Jiren > Beerus <=> Broly > Jiren < Beerus > UI Goku > Jiren I don't wanna say retcon as I wanna wait for the retellings but I'm leaning that way Also lets be real. That bit about Broly possibly being stronger is complete BS. We all know Beerus is s...

Does this mean SSBKK got retconned or is Toei still gonna use it in their retelling?