Kanzenshuu

I think Kemuri just means that this is the moment where Dragon Ball starts to get off the treadmill of 'bigger ki power' as the answer to the threat presented by the mightiest foes by using a form that emphasises something different. I don't think Kemuri's trying to say that it ignores power ...

It's also the moment in which Super (the manga) really tries to reckon with one of Dragon Ball's biggest fucking problem: the power creep.

I loved that moment that actually allows Roshi to go "yeah Goku is beast--but don't forget who taught him."

I don't agree with this. The manga manages to ...

The concept is great, but execution is soooo bad. Come on, Roshi dodging Jiren's fists? It's impossible even if Jiren were to use 5% of his power. Old geezer should be dead or knocked out. Hell (or HFIL hehe), in OG DB he said he was surpassed by younger warriors.
It would work, but not against ...

I've been a very vocal supporter of both Toyotaro and this arc, and I believe that modern DB has a very bright future ahead of it if he'll be in charge moving forward. With that said, the current arc has major pacing issues that he needs to avoid in his future stories.

All in all, the DBS manga ...

I've been fairly critic to Toyotaro's fanservice in this last saga of the DBS manga, mostly when it came to Moro and how all the Z-fighters survived his attacks despite the disparity between their powers.
But re-reading Chapter 62, I've paid more attention to what was said and Moro stated there that ...

I've been fairly critic to Toyotaro's fanservice in this last saga of the DBS manga, mostly when it came to Moro and how all the Z-fighters survived his attacks despite the disparity between their powers.
But re-reading Chapter 62, I've paid more attention to what was said and Moro stated there that ...

Ultra instincts Omen is Above SSJB2 Vegeta which is above SSJB Goku.

It was. SSBE is ahead now.

You're right, Vegeta increased the strength of all his forms thanks to the spirit training and considering that in the ToP the difference wasn't all that big to begin with, yeah, SSJBE (or SSJB2 ...

Ultra instincts Omen is Above SSJB2 Vegeta which is above SSJB Goku.
SSJB2 to SSJB is implied to be a good 20% improvement, and UIO could very be another 10% over that.

A huge difference when it comes to fight, but a SSJB that burns all it's stamina can also achieve those kinds of strength. It's ...

I have to say, if there were to be any more reference to this material in the Super Manga (not necessarily in a complete adaptation or anything, but maybe a flashback like appears in 超 #32), I'd enjoy seeing a little bit of the fight if it helped with some 'tidying up' of the questions around ...

I don't think the canon of the manga contradicted the movies in anything else than the SSJGod form of Goku being a transformation and not his base state absorving its powers (which was confusing as hell).
I mean, even if the SSJBlue drained a lot of stamina, you just need the Golden Form to drain ...

1. In my reply to your previous statement, you stated that Gohan was never convinced that he could win and he left trunks behind because he was not sure of how much power the androids were holding back. However, this contradicts what we see in the panel. Gohan shows confidence and claims to 17 ...

I just think that the scenario that Cell comes from in the future is one where Trunks defeated the androids by means that were not revealed. It doesn't make sense for us to believe that he got the blueprints, killed baby Cell, and departed without participating in the Cell Games. I mean, wouldn't ...

This hinges a lot on trying to piece things so that the androids can be equal, and that is a big assumption on our part, because it should be the other way around.
I don't think the androids are equal, future androids were weaker as stated, but that Cell from Gingertown wouldn't have had the ...

Cell needed humans to gain strength in order to absorb the androids in the present. He was ready for them in the future. That alone is proof of whom was stronger. The super computer was informing Cell even in the present when he arrived. Trunks's interference in Freeza and King Cold's death was a ...

1. Gohan did not go into the fight thinking he had no chance of winning. He went into the fight thinking that he had a good chance of winning based on his own estimate of the androids power. He left Trunks behind because he did not want trunks to die as well in case he lost and relied o him being ...

But there is doubt that F. Trunks was weaker than the androids in the future because:

1. We see that both Trunks and Gohan are not accurate sources of the assessment of the androids strength. This is evident by the fact that both warriors thought they had amassed sufficient power to defeat the ...

Here is the thing though. There are too many unknown to make the following assumptions as you have made.
Of course the whole explanation requires a bit of imagination, but there's no doubt that the future androids were weaker than the present ones and Trunks being able to fight them fairly well ...

Well here is the thing. Bulma states that it takes 8 months to gather energy for the time machine to make a round trip. We also know that the time Cell comes from is 3 years into the future from the time period that the Trunks in the andriod saga came from. So for the very least, we know that the ...

You do bring up an excellent point that Imperfect cell was not there that Trunks would not have known of the secret lab but again it is also entirely possible that Trunks may have gone back to the lab looking to see if he could have repaired the remote and found the secret lab. I mean its entirely ...

Well as we saw in Cell's timeline, Trunks has a time machine. We also know that from the main timeline that trunk's does find out where Gero's lab is located and even finds the blue print that outlines how to make the remote, so it is possible that he may have found it in the past timeline. Also ...