Kanzenshuu

Dabra being comparable to Cell is such a headache, because his power is also comparable to SS1 Gohan. He was tougher than expected because of his magic, but the inconsistence still remains. A few chapters ago, Vegeta said SS2 Gohan was weaker than he was when he fought Cell, and Cell was almost as ...

There's a lot of beating around the bush with these arguments. Yeah, Goku trains a lot, and Toriyama doesn't care about power scaling or how strong characters should be, but Goku has to be exactly the same as his Boo Saga level because... It would be inconsistent? Even though we're saying Toriyama ...

Even if it doesn't really fit 100% with Z, it is the new black, just like Goku being stronger than Gohan is also the new black, when it was not the case before, but we go along with it anyway and try to see how it came to be. The "did Goku get way stronger or Gohan way weaker?" debate.

I think ...

I get it, but my point is more about Toriyama not specifically framing Goku as a whole lot stronger in comparison to when he faced Boo. At the same time, Toriyama doesn’t frame Gotenks and Gohan as weaker than what they were supposed to be in Boo arc. Either because he didn’t remember how they ...

I don’t think there is anything that directly suggests there is a big difference in Goku’s same forms between his fight against Boo and Beerus. Most of this notion derives from the movie and anime placing Goku above Gohan and Gotenks, but this is something implied even during the Boo arc anime and ...

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Thu May 14, 2026 7:29 pm

Hugo Boss wrote: Thu May 07, 2026 12:14 pm Base Goku (Super Hero) vs. Perfect Cell

In the anime, Goku breathes Cell away.

In the manga it's a closer fight, but Cell wins still.

In that case, what about Base Goku (Super Hero) vs. SS1 Goku (Cell Games)?

I brought Boo arc as a reference, because Goku and Vegeta in that arc were compared to Gohan from the Cell Games when they used their SS2 forms, which is exactly the same nod that Goku gave when Trunks reveals he can also use SS2 too. That is not to say Goku and Vegeta didn’t get stronger since they ...

I think it would have to be at least Super Perfect Cell to actually give any trouble to the current base Goku from Super. The Zamasu arc strongly suggests that Goku and Vegeta's base forms are at the same level or slightly above the characters' SSJ2 form from the Cell and Boo arcs, while Super ...

I wonder if the remake is going leave out Goku absorbing SSJG like the manga did. That's where the confusion came from when the original forms and SSJG reappeared in the anime. Some scenes implied a regular base while others implied Saiyan beyond God like against SSJ3 Gotenks. A lot of those were ...

Base Goku (Super Hero) vs. Perfect Cell

Throughout the entire anime too after the Beerus arc we see Goku having to transform against characters who clearly aren't supposed to be SSJG level.

Exactly. Unless we are admitting that a bunch of over 30 characters in those universes can compare to the gods, not to mention even Krillin ...

The issue is mostly that such implied improvements are not well represented in the subsequent events, such as Goku still needing golden-haired Super Saiyan forms to fight Frost or Trunks, who were weaker than Boo, while his base form in RoF should be far stronger than this same Boo. Not to mention ...

By the way, it is almost a whole year without new posts on this thread, so this kinda looks like necroposting, but I couldn’t find a better place for this comment.

There seems to be finally a wafer collection with SS4 (Daima) and SS3 Vegeta , probably when they were using their strongest moves ...

I’m also going with UI Sign having about 50% of perfected UI (100%). It gives a decent margin to silver UI having lower performances whenever Goku isn’t in the right mind state (like 25 to 40%), and True UI Sign using about 60 to 70% of perfected UI.

Both Anime and manga have piccolo consistently being on sub Ssj tier from the sams arc

In anime you could argue he's from Buu saga ssj2 level from defeating Gohan to up over Gotenks level if we uses the copy Vegeta arc and RoF

In the manga him throwing hands with Saganbo and Moro and doing ...

I think you could totally justify fusions overlapping god forms based on the characters getting massively stronger themselves. But I don’t think there is a definitive answer for this. SSG in Battle of Gods was supposed to be close to Beerus in power, although only 60%, which would be more than ...

How strong is Slim Boo from the DBS anime?

Stronger than Boohan? Stronger than Moro arc Mr. Boo? In-between?

He tangled with Base2 Goku (calling Base2 to the SSG-tier base Goku portrayals since they're so inconsistent).

In terms of strength, he was pretty much even with Goku in their fight ...

Furthermore, I think this new cut might not include Super Saiyan Blue Evolved and Ultra Instinct Sign, as they were not originally designed by Toriyama. Not only they don’t appear in Broly’s movie but also they are not present in the 40th anniversary video. Goku goes straight from Super Saiyan Blue ...

I remember the anime awfully avoiding crossing the line into explicitly placing them above Beerus. He is repeatedly framed as occasionally shocked whenever someone strong appears, but he was never shown going all out or being surpassed on screen.

Jiren was said to be stronger than a God of ...

I don't know why people are taking this in bad faith. The Moro arc adaptation is more than a year out, and as a seasonal production aiming for high quality (if Daima set a precedent), it wasn't coming any faster.

Recutting Super 2015 makes use of the gap in time while building hype without ...