Kanzenshuu

I think Broly is top dog but do genuinely think this is a fuck up of the broader super continuity, is a retcon, and that there just wasn't clear enough communication about this amongst Toyo and others. I don't think there was any hidden meaning behind Goku saying he's never faced anyone as tough as...

About Freeza, I was rewatching the Broly movie and I think there's basis to believe he was already extremely stronger than before, not just a bit like it was initially thought. He witnesses SS Broly trashing the fuck out of Goku and Vegeta together, yet when he ends up with the bill he decides to t...

Freeza brought Broly to the scene, so it'd be fitting if Broly takes care of him. Yup could see that happening. Speaking of - they're obviously hinting that Broly will get some new form/powerup/transformation to utilize his full strenght so whaddya all think it's gonna be? New design, canon repurpo...

Maybe Vegeta is referring to everyone currently as of Age 782-783 which is SH. So at THAT point in time Jiren, Broly, and Frieza are not TOO MUCH stronger than Goku and Vegeta physically and maybe even power level wise BUT they wield their powers better when USING them? That's pretty much the gist ...

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25, 2023 3:09 pm If Toppo is saying Jiren surpasses Belmond in power level, then we’re back to step one.

Indeed we are hahaha

I’m starting to think Jiren is just plain weaker than Belmond in raw power. Toppo says Jiren is stronger “in terms of combat skill alone”. I think that would be more or less correct. In raw power, Jiren wasn't that much stronger than SSB Goku/Vegeta, according to Super Hero. He can make the differe...

I don't think that was a power thing, Special Beam Canon is meant to pierce and Gohan wasn't so sure his was that good. I think Gohan just hasn't mastered it to the level Piccolo has so its piercing ability wasn't as great. But Piccolo immediately corrected him by saying it was "magnificent&qu...

Was it recton that he only fight with 1% of his own power. Well it was never really stated how much he used outside of the movies. In both manga and anime he either lied about how much power he used or never stated it at all, so it's up in the air. At least in the manga, the fight was a bonafide fa...

Why try to find an In-universe answer? It is pointless. Super is just a poorly-planned OVERALL storyline. The individual arcs are well-planned, but the OVERALL storyline doesn't link together that well, which was also a problem in DBZ by the way. I mean, in DBZ you had the whole "Super Saiyan ...

It's gonna be really satisfying if, when the next arc drops, it confirms that, yes, everyone that's in the range of a God of Destruction is relative to one another in power. I dunno why Toyo had Whis give that line with no further analysis, but Toriyama seems to disregard it in his movies since even...

Beast had a lot more trouble handling Max than in the movie. Gohan struggled during the beam clash and needed outside help and he looks exhausted after the fight is over. Considering Max and Piccolo are somewhat relative as well, I'd say it's safe to say Black Freeza is still top dog. I can't imagi...

Honestly? I actually preferred them to the later Moro fights. At least until Goku arrives to trivialize the whole thing. I'm gonna be honest here, I really think Toyotaro works best when he introduces gimmicks in his fights. Whenever he actually has to make it a full brawl, it's just... boring. In t...

To be fair, not that it matters much, but the second image explicitly states that the Gammas are "the strongest androids created by Dr. Hedo", not in general. Again, not that it matters, since them being on par with Goku and Vegeta automatically makes them at least on par with 17, if not s...

Given what we have seen from other media, it's implied full UI is still the Paragon. Whis was completely playing with Broly, after all For the lack of Broly triggering Goku's transformation it's worth to note Goku was never really pushed to the wall in the movie. Hell, he and Vegeta are pretty sure...

Out-of-universe, it was an idea scrapped once the franchise was developed as a series and the SS forms were coming back. In-universe, I guess it wasn't a permanent thing, or perhaps more akin to using SSG without actually transforming. Like a beta SSG form. It's pretty much that, with the concept o...

Going by Trunk's flashback in the manga, his SS2 form wasn't able to inflict nearly enough damage to get him winded or doubt his chances of victory before Shin paralyzed him. Also, note that Dabura dodged Gohan's kamehameha to protect Babidi. Cuz' a blast of that size would absolutely hit his master...

What's the consensus on Dabra's strength now? Considering SS2 Trunks took care of him without much issue, is it fair to say perfect Cell was the form Goku compared him to? Though Trunks was also stronger than Cell Games Gohan at that point, so it's probable he'd handle SPC just as easily. Are you t...

In the anime canon where both Black Freeza, and the concept of Ultra Ego seeming doesn't exist, Is Gohan (Beast) currently the strongest non-Angel character in the series? If by anime you include the movies and it's informations, then I think it would be something like: Gohan Beast >= (Completed) C...

Who knows? Toriyama, maybe , but he for sure ain't sharing that info :lol: Nowadays I just imagine that the other kaioshin were just the 4 Kaioh of the time that Buu attacked, with Dai Kaioshin being the actual Kaioshin. Thus, before he fought Buu and died, he passed on the mantle to Shin, the only...

Vegeta in the Buu arc probably learned to master his SS transformation, catching up to Gohan and Goku (in a way), and he was surprised by Trunks. His son managed to catch him off-guard, but that was about it. Gohan was rusty, really rusty, and Goten shocked him to no end. Obviously that level of pow...