"(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:24 am

Why? What it is about? How does it relate to the current discussion here?

Please try to avoid drive-by link dropping.
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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:51 pm

The Black Reaper wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:40 am
You guys might wanna see this :silent:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Threa ... skin=oasis
what vegetto said. people here are not fond of power scaling debates, and this thread definitely isnt for it.

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:00 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:51 pm
The Black Reaper wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:40 am
You guys might wanna see this :silent:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Threa ... skin=oasis
what vegetto said. people here are not fond of power scaling debates, and this thread definitely isnt for it.
I don't think that's quite what he was getting at, it's rather that it's just a link with no explanation.
I'll only speak for myself, so: I don't click random unexplained links like those. Some kind of summary, or at least a one-line description, of what the link leads to would be great.
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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:31 pm

Alruneia wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:00 pm
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:51 pm
The Black Reaper wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:40 am
You guys might wanna see this :silent:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Threa ... skin=oasis
what vegetto said. people here are not fond of power scaling debates, and this thread definitely isnt for it.
I don't think that's quite what he was getting at, it's rather that it's just a link with no explanation.
I'll only speak for myself, so: I don't click random unexplained links like those. Some kind of summary, or at least a one-line description, of what the link leads to would be great.
yep that went over my head too, my bad. well what i said, in addition to this.

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:16 pm

Alruneia wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:18 pm
Pan (Xeno or otherwise) does still not have any kind of Super Saiyan, despite several other, more "minor" saiyans being given transformations (such as SS3 Nappa and Raditz). At this point I'm wondering if it's on purpose.
Goten never got SSJ2 or SSJ3 either. But now with him having Ultimate he likely never will.

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragotaker » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:57 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:16 pm
Alruneia wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:18 pm
Pan (Xeno or otherwise) does still not have any kind of Super Saiyan, despite several other, more "minor" saiyans being given transformations (such as SS3 Nappa and Raditz). At this point I'm wondering if it's on purpose.
Goten never got SSJ2 or SSJ3 either. But now with him having Ultimate he likely never will.
Xeno Gohan also had Ultimate before then having SS4 and SS3 pretty much at the same time, all of the main good guys have mastered everything that already exist other than Goten or Pan so there is nothing else to go now, BBM is his last chance if by the end of it we are still having this discussion about him then is truly over.

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SSJgogeto » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:44 am

It would to be nice to see SS3 Goten. I don't understand why he doesn't have it yet.

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:02 am

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:31 pm
Alruneia wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:00 pm
I don't think that's quite what he was getting at, it's rather that it's just a link with no explanation.
I'll only speak for myself, so: I don't click random unexplained links like those. Some kind of summary, or at least a one-line description, of what the link leads to would be great.
yep that went over my head too, my bad. well what i said, in addition to this.
I'll say this: this thread doesn't restrict powerscaling debates of SDBH, & while it's not discussed around here too often, I myself am not opposed to discussing it whenever it gets brought up since, well, this is sort of the nature of DB fans after all & there's a lot of clarification to be made.

That being said, I think ppl should be free to discuss SDBH-related content here, whether it's story or marketing or merch or power debates as long as it doesn't get too hostile. I also believe that UMX should be allowed here since its own thread is largely dead. Promotional anime & manga should go into their appropriate threads, however, unless it's being discussed in the context or comparison of the arcade.

As for that link. I clicked on it & it only confirms what I think about the Vs Wiki: laughable & even more flawed than the DB Wiki. Not only do they use incomplete information on ports like UMX (not that they played or watched playthroughs of the game & thus understood its plot or characters in the 1st place, or even have a proper translator to clarify for them), but the fact that they don't bother to separate different continuities of XGoku alone proves how much of a joke that site is.
SSJgogeto wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:44 am
It would to be nice to see SS3 Goten. I don't understand why he doesn't have it yet.
Because he has a far better power upgrade already? He already has Ultimate. Unless y'all just want to see Goten w/ long SS3 hair, then I can kind of understand but frankly he's prob gonna look just like SS3 Goku/Bardock which isn't very interesting in the 1st place.

I honestly don't believe we'll ever be getting SS3 XGoten. And imo, at this point it's fine if he doesn't.
Dragotaker wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:57 pm

Xeno Gohan also had Ultimate before then having SS4 and SS3 pretty much at the same time, all of the main good guys have mastered everything that already exist other than Goten or Pan so there is nothing else to go now, BBM is his last chance if by the end of it we are still having this discussion about him then is truly over.
SS3 XGohan already had precedence from Gohan: shounen & Future Gohan, who both already had SS3 forms by the time. So giving a SS3 card to XGohan wasn't a big deal in the 1st place.
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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragotaker » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:23 pm

Because he has a far better power upgrade already? He already has Ultimate. Unless y'all just want to see Goten w/ long SS3 hair, then I can kind of understand but frankly he's prob gonna look just like SS3 Goku/Bardock which isn't very interesting in the 1st place.

I honestly don't believe we'll ever be getting SS3 XGoten. And imo, at this point it's fine if he doesn't.
and how exactly do you know it is better??? just because it made Gohan stronger than SS3 in the anime?? like i hate to get into this argument of which character or form is stronger, especially with Heroes because the power scaling is a goddam mess but you can't convince me that Ultimate is somehow the superior upgrade for Goten at least where unlike Gohan nowhere has been stated that he is anywhere that strong, it doesn't work the same for everyone like by your logic why didn't Xeno Trunks also unlock his potential with the old kai to supposedly also make him stronger since before SSG he had been stuck in SS3 for years???

Really we could be talking about this all day but for me it's more of a pet peeve, i know he is not gonna look that different than Goku but still i want to see it, won't care if it was in some promo throwaway card either.

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:30 pm

Yeah, apart from Ultimate not having a power set in stone like the Super Saiyan forms (rather working upon the latent potential of one's user, which obviously varies from person to person), Goten doesn't have bangs, which means he'll look more like Gotenks and Vegeta. The latest/red outfit might help give him a nice overall look for that matter while in Super Saiyan 3 form.

But all that matters is Super Saiyan 2 (and I haven't forgotten about Baby Goten too, c'mon, there is Baby Trunks already!).

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragotaker » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:53 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:30 pm
Yeah, apart from Ultimate not having a power set in stone like the Super Saiyan forms (rather working upon the latent potential of one's user, which obviously varies from person to person), Goten doesn't have bangs, which means he'll look more like Gotenks and Vegeta. The latest/red outfit might help give him a nice overall look for that matter while in Super Saiyan 3 form.

But all that matters is Super Saiyan 2 (and I haven't forgotten about Baby Goten too, c'mon, there is Baby Trunks already!).
the red outfit is so cool, the first thing that came to mind is how much it resembles Xeno Goku's, i seriously though he was going to have a breakthrough back in UM3 when it made it's debut yet even counting Ultimate he was just another body around, didn't even get to be useful as fusion fodder like he normally is, however i think that had to do more with how messy things got after Mechikabura came back.

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DNA » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:43 am

I really don't understand why people obsess over Goten. I'd rather see Piccolo getting something new than Goten getting something old.
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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:02 am

Dragotaker wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:23 pm
Because he has a far better power upgrade already? He already has Ultimate. Unless y'all just want to see Goten w/ long SS3 hair, then I can kind of understand but frankly he's prob gonna look just like SS3 Goku/Bardock which isn't very interesting in the 1st place.

I honestly don't believe we'll ever be getting SS3 XGoten. And imo, at this point it's fine if he doesn't.
and how exactly do you know it is better??? just because it made Gohan stronger than SS3 in the anime?? like i hate to get into this argument of which character or form is stronger, especially with Heroes because the power scaling is a goddam mess but you can't convince me that Ultimate is somehow the superior upgrade for Goten at least where unlike Gohan nowhere has been stated that he is anywhere that strong, it doesn't work the same for everyone like by your logic why didn't Xeno Trunks also unlock his potential with the old kai to supposedly also make him stronger since before SSG he had been stuck in SS3 for years???

Really we could be talking about this all day but for me it's more of a pet peeve, i know he is not gonna look that different than Goku but still i want to see it, won't care if it was in some promo throwaway card either.
Didn't realize you felt so strongly about this. Before I begin, sorry if I came across as rude.

1. Your logic is strawman-ish. "Why didn't Trunks do it if it's supposedly > SS3?" is a bad argument, period. There are many instances of characters not getting the same power-up despite it making them stronger. XGoten got his Potential Unlocked because he asked for it, as he wanted to become stronger, presumably w/o the training required for SS3. It had nothing to do w/ XTrunks.

A bit off-topic, but likely the reason why XTrunks was given SS3 so easily is also because there has been precedence for SS3 FTrunks, the very 1st original character for DBH. Same reason why SS3-4 XGohan, or SS4 XBardock, or SS4 Broly Dark were given out easily, because there was already precedence for those. Not to say that SS3 Goten has to be made a big deal out of, but the transformations for these characters were already in made in existence so there was always a good possibility we would see them sooner or later again.

3. How to prove that Ultimate is the better upgrade for Goten than SS3? Wouldn't Goten have as much potential as Gohan, since they are brothers & offspring to the same mother & father? There is more evidence to the narrative that Ultimate > SS3 for Goten. Rather, how about you prove why SS3 is the superior upgrade when we've seen in the original series that Gohan getting his potential unlocked made him significantly above SS3 Goku?

2. What makes you say that the powerscaling is a "mess" in SDBH? Because the anime is? The arcade powerscaling, as far as I've observed, has been rather consistent & logical in terms of progression. Characters can & do get progressively stronger, & nothing egregious or out of the ordinary happens. And some strength comparisons are ambiguous enough that you cannot say exactly who's stronger & who's not.

Fans who trash the anime for its powerscaling, & then attribute the same to the arcade or generalize it to the SDBH series, are completely erroneous & ignorant, & should never be taken seriously in a debate regarding SDBH characters.

I hope you're not doing the same, so if you have a reason for that, I'd like you to elaborate.
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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:25 am

the arcade game certainly has its "oof" scaling at times. it aint safe, but it certainly is far better handled than the manga, which is far better handled than the heroes anime.

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:39 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:25 am
the arcade game certainly has its "oof" scaling at times. it aint safe, but it certainly is far better handled than the manga, which is far better handled than the heroes anime.
I think you can say that for pretty much every the entirety of the main DB/Super story, even they have their own 'oof' moments. Super anime certainly has plenty of them. I meant that the arcade is surprisingly rather consistent & logical relative to those.
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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:39 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:39 pm
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:25 am
the arcade game certainly has its "oof" scaling at times. it aint safe, but it certainly is far better handled than the manga, which is far better handled than the heroes anime.
I think you can say that for pretty much every the entirety of the main DB/Super story, even they have their own 'oof' moments. Super anime certainly has plenty of them. I meant that the arcade is surprisingly rather consistent & logical relative to those.
everything you said is true, but i was just comparing heroes, and its mediums. the heroes anime takes the inconsistencies from the super anime, and cranks it up to a billion. while the manga and the arcade game try their best to actually have a believable scaling, and they do work.

however, i'm not against them having their own scaling either. This is their franchise, separate from the canon. as long as they keep their scaling consistent, i wouldn't mind even if they have villains stronger than freaking angels.

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragotaker » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:58 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:02 am
Dragotaker wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:23 pm
Because he has a far better power upgrade already? He already has Ultimate. Unless y'all just want to see Goten w/ long SS3 hair, then I can kind of understand but frankly he's prob gonna look just like SS3 Goku/Bardock which isn't very interesting in the 1st place.

I honestly don't believe we'll ever be getting SS3 XGoten. And imo, at this point it's fine if he doesn't.
and how exactly do you know it is better??? just because it made Gohan stronger than SS3 in the anime?? like i hate to get into this argument of which character or form is stronger, especially with Heroes because the power scaling is a goddam mess but you can't convince me that Ultimate is somehow the superior upgrade for Goten at least where unlike Gohan nowhere has been stated that he is anywhere that strong, it doesn't work the same for everyone like by your logic why didn't Xeno Trunks also unlock his potential with the old kai to supposedly also make him stronger since before SSG he had been stuck in SS3 for years???

Really we could be talking about this all day but for me it's more of a pet peeve, i know he is not gonna look that different than Goku but still i want to see it, won't care if it was in some promo throwaway card either.
Didn't realize you felt so strongly about this. Before I begin, sorry if I came across as rude.

1. Your logic is strawman-ish. "Why didn't Trunks do it if it's supposedly > SS3?" is a bad argument, period. There are many instances of characters not getting the same power-up despite it making them stronger. XGoten got his Potential Unlocked because he asked for it, as he wanted to become stronger, presumably w/o the training required for SS3. It had nothing to do w/ XTrunks.

A bit off-topic, but likely the reason why XTrunks was given SS3 so easily is also because there has been precedence for SS3 FTrunks, the very 1st original character for DBH. Same reason why SS3-4 XGohan, or SS4 XBardock, or SS4 Broly Dark were given out easily, because there was already precedence for those. Not to say that SS3 Goten has to be made a big deal out of, but the transformations for these characters were already in made in existence so there was always a good possibility we would see them sooner or later again.

3. How to prove that Ultimate is the better upgrade for Goten than SS3? Wouldn't Goten have as much potential as Gohan, since they are brothers & offspring to the same mother & father? There is more evidence to the narrative that Ultimate > SS3 for Goten. Rather, how about you prove why SS3 is the superior upgrade when we've seen in the original series that Gohan getting his potential unlocked made him significantly above SS3 Goku?

2. What makes you say that the powerscaling is a "mess" in SDBH? Because the anime is? The arcade powerscaling, as far as I've observed, has been rather consistent & logical in terms of progression. Characters can & do get progressively stronger, & nothing egregious or out of the ordinary happens. And some strength comparisons are ambiguous enough that you cannot say exactly who's stronger & who's not.

Fans who trash the anime for its powerscaling, & then attribute the same to the arcade or generalize it to the SDBH series, are completely erroneous & ignorant, & should never be taken seriously in a debate regarding SDBH characters.

I hope you're not doing the same, so if you have a reason for that, I'd like you to elaborate.
Now that's just your headcanon like yes they are both brothers from the same parents but they are still different people and unless there was mention of that or just how much stronger Goten got after the ritual somewhere in the arcade it's all just assumptions, the only certain thing is that he got stronger, we don't know how much but he is stronger, for sure the strongest he has ever been in any incarnation in Dragon Ball media ever, but you know what? why don't let him have both? so what if is weaker? like instead of having the same obligatory card of each main character each set they could spice things up a bit, at the end of the day this is a game about collecting cards and i'm sure a SS3 Goten card would be very valuable specially with a good ability, sure beats having yet another base card of him like always we can at least agree on that right?

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Majin Demigra » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:41 pm

Dragotaker wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:58 pm
Rakurai wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:02 am
Dragotaker wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:23 pm


and how exactly do you know it is better??? just because it made Gohan stronger than SS3 in the anime?? like i hate to get into this argument of which character or form is stronger, especially with Heroes because the power scaling is a goddam mess but you can't convince me that Ultimate is somehow the superior upgrade for Goten at least where unlike Gohan nowhere has been stated that he is anywhere that strong, it doesn't work the same for everyone like by your logic why didn't Xeno Trunks also unlock his potential with the old kai to supposedly also make him stronger since before SSG he had been stuck in SS3 for years???

Really we could be talking about this all day but for me it's more of a pet peeve, i know he is not gonna look that different than Goku but still i want to see it, won't care if it was in some promo throwaway card either.
Didn't realize you felt so strongly about this. Before I begin, sorry if I came across as rude.

1. Your logic is strawman-ish. "Why didn't Trunks do it if it's supposedly > SS3?" is a bad argument, period. There are many instances of characters not getting the same power-up despite it making them stronger. XGoten got his Potential Unlocked because he asked for it, as he wanted to become stronger, presumably w/o the training required for SS3. It had nothing to do w/ XTrunks.

A bit off-topic, but likely the reason why XTrunks was given SS3 so easily is also because there has been precedence for SS3 FTrunks, the very 1st original character for DBH. Same reason why SS3-4 XGohan, or SS4 XBardock, or SS4 Broly Dark were given out easily, because there was already precedence for those. Not to say that SS3 Goten has to be made a big deal out of, but the transformations for these characters were already in made in existence so there was always a good possibility we would see them sooner or later again.

3. How to prove that Ultimate is the better upgrade for Goten than SS3? Wouldn't Goten have as much potential as Gohan, since they are brothers & offspring to the same mother & father? There is more evidence to the narrative that Ultimate > SS3 for Goten. Rather, how about you prove why SS3 is the superior upgrade when we've seen in the original series that Gohan getting his potential unlocked made him significantly above SS3 Goku?

2. What makes you say that the powerscaling is a "mess" in SDBH? Because the anime is? The arcade powerscaling, as far as I've observed, has been rather consistent & logical in terms of progression. Characters can & do get progressively stronger, & nothing egregious or out of the ordinary happens. And some strength comparisons are ambiguous enough that you cannot say exactly who's stronger & who's not.

Fans who trash the anime for its powerscaling, & then attribute the same to the arcade or generalize it to the SDBH series, are completely erroneous & ignorant, & should never be taken seriously in a debate regarding SDBH characters.

I hope you're not doing the same, so if you have a reason for that, I'd like you to elaborate.
Now that's just your headcanon like yes they are both brothers from the same parents but they are still different people and unless there was mention of that or just how much stronger Goten got after the ritual somewhere in the arcade it's all just assumptions, the only certain thing is that he got stronger, we don't know how much but he is stronger, for sure the strongest he has ever been in any incarnation in Dragon Ball media ever, but you know what? why don't let him have both? so what if is weaker? like instead of having the same obligatory card of each main character each set they could spice things up a bit, at the end of the day this is a game about collecting cards and i'm sure a SS3 Goten card would be very valuable specially with a good ability, sure beats having yet another base card of him like always we can at least agree on that right?
Ssj3 has always been a wasteful from with stamina and energy issues, Goku still hasn't completly mastered it even at the ToP arc. It would be a definitive downgrade.

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:34 am

Dragotaker wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:58 pm

Now that's just your headcanon like yes they are both brothers from the same parents but they are still different people and unless there was mention of that or just how much stronger Goten got after the ritual somewhere in the arcade it's all just assumptions, the only certain thing is that he got stronger, we don't know how much but he is stronger, for sure the strongest he has ever been in any incarnation in Dragon Ball media ever, but you know what? why don't let him have both? so what if is weaker? like instead of having the same obligatory card of each main character each set they could spice things up a bit, at the end of the day this is a game about collecting cards and i'm sure a SS3 Goten card would be very valuable specially with a good ability, sure beats having yet another base card of him like always we can at least agree on that right?
Goten is a half-Earthling half-Saiyan, so as Vegeta postulated in the Saiyan arc, he has the potential to hold great power.

He was the youngest to transform into a Super Saiyan.

Gohan was able to see a sparring partner in him, at the young age of seven, regardless of SS.

Goku believed that both Goten & Trunks when fused were powerful enough to defeat Majin Buu.

He became powerful enough to hold his own against multiple Cell Jr's in the manga.

There is plenty of evidence in the original series to say that Goten has as much potential/power as Gohan did at his age. Sure you can call it 'headcanon' since it's never been touted the way it has been for Gohan, but since SDBH gave XGoten an Ultimate form, the same as his brother, with the supporting evidence from the manga, I stand by what I said, since the opposite is harder to prove.

To the contrary, I actually like the concept of Ultimate Goten better than SS3 Goten, since the former is a little more special & now shared among brothers only. But tbh I also don't really care too much about other what-if transformations except for the anniversary reveal, which tends to be the most interesting. In the end, what draws me to SDBH is the story, & then the card illustrations, not the SS rainbow/monkey lines.

If Goten gets SS3, great. If not, there's no harm done to his character or his portrayal either.
Majin Demigra wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:41 pm
Ssj3 has always been a wasteful from with stamina and energy issues, Goku still hasn't completly mastered it even at the ToP arc. It would be a definitive downgrade.
Depends on what medium you look at (anime vs manga), & how you interpret the scenes. The only supporting claim to that was when SS3 Goku ran out of juice to maintain it vs. Kale & Caulifla after transforming once in the anime,. In the manga, Goku uses SS3 just fine with no detrimental effects.
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SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

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Re: "(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

Post by RichardKing2 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:21 pm

What a boring ass argument to scroll through :lol:

i'll wake up once we find more info on big bang mission and it's story

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