Tranformations Balance Idea

Discussion of all things related to Dragon Ball video games (console and portable games, arcade versions, etc.) from the entire franchise's history.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

Captain Strawberry
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:59 pm
Location: Where I wander

Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by Captain Strawberry » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:57 am

Hi guys, this is my idea to balance transformations in DBX 2.


My idea how to balance transformations for Xenoverse 2. Feel free to help and give suggestions
We could do do what Budokai
SS1 - In an exchange for more power and speed, ki drops faster
SS2 - Takes more ki to transform, takes a toll on stamina so stamina recovers less quickly
SS3 - Saps a lot of energy, ki goes down very quickly, the more you use it than health depletes a bit, more ki is required for strikes and super.
SS4 - Most stable transformation. Does not sap a lot of energy however, after use stamina does not regenerate for 20 seconds and can only be used 2-3 times. The more you use it, you loose stamina and ki bars. Ki drains fast or very fast
SSG - Due to decreased muscle mass during initial use, reduced stamina and health but you are a lot faster and more powerful. Transformation does not last long after initial use than the transformation is lost. After more experience or if health is lower than 25% than a chance of unlocking the transformation again which then afterwards of use, ki drops very fast.

SSGSS - OP transformation however, requires a lot of ki to use and Z soul isnt as effective. Ki drops as fast as SS1 but you sacrifice two bars of ki. Can only be obtainted after many training/experience with SSG.

Super Namek - Health Regeneration speed increases but ki and stamina regenerates less quickly in exchange for more powerful abilities, though lower stamina means less effective regeneration so use stamina wisely
Super Namek 2 - More powerful, health recovers a bit faster, stamina regenerates quickly but ki drops very fast
Super Namek 3 - Increased stats for attack, speed, health regen but defence is decreased
Super Namek 4 - Increased stats specifically defence, stamina regenerates very quickly but ki drops very quickly. When near allies, their health slowly regenerates.

Super Majin - Powerful health regeneration, quickly but the more damage taken the less effective ki attacks are and lots of ki eventually is required for attacks. A true tank transformation
Super Majin 2 - Stats increase but your endurance is not as great
Wild Majin - A bit similar to how kid buu works, you are not physically stronger but your speed increases a lot as well as your defence because of your unpredictability and wild nature also you dodge faster and hit faster
Tank Majin - Increased stats but high endurance though ki drops fast and speed is decreased

Humans - Are better with transformations such as Kaioken and unlocked potential etc.
Dormant Human gene (or Flame transformation)- Lower health means attacks do more damage and defence increases. Your character takes a multi flame like aura which dipicts Humans strong emotion and rage
Human dormant power - A perk once unlocked, attacks requiring ki take less ki.
Super Humans - More powerful, ki and stamina both drain but can be charged or gained from recieving or giving attacks
Super Flames - Your aura becomes more wild and becomes a specific [insert colour] - Increased stats, ki regens faster, more ki is required though and you loose stamina bars

Or... you could get the dragon balls and ask for a transformation akin to the super saiyan transformation
The Mage - Slightly stronger than base but Ki regens faster and ki focused attacks do more damage however, endurance and defence decrease

Frieza Final Form - Like SS1 but a bit more ki is required to transform
Advanced Final Form - Increased stats specifically ki attacks but stamina regenerated less quickly
Golden/[insert colour] Form - Increased stats from Adv. Final Form but stamina regenerates less quickly

Kaioken - The more you charge it the more powerful you are however, you take more damage, any health regeneration decreases. If you start using it more, health slightly depletes but can be very powerful. Infinite snap vanishies :D
Super Kaioken - A very powerful transformation but stamina drops very fast
Potential Unlocked - A transformations that brings out your potential, you are faster, Z souls are more effective but ultimate attacks may use both stamina and ki.
Potential Unleashed - More powerful version of potential unlocked but ki drops very quickly as SS3

The more you use a transformation, the slower your character becomes and less effective defence.
Though if stuff like this isn't added than atleast make transformations like Budokai 3 or Budokai in generel when if ki hits zero than you dont loose the transformation
Edit: I added more transformations since I gave the Saiyans too many. I think perhaps the first stages of transformations should not have any disadvantages and should have increased stats but focusing more on one e.g Saiyans Attack power.
Kuro Tenshi

I am just a simple traveller

User avatar
Fresh Prince
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:07 am
Location: MN

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by Fresh Prince » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:08 pm

I agree with this, I just hope it works like Mystic Form from DLC 3 (Where you can't spam as much like SSJ/2). My Idea to Unlock SSG is you train with Beerus and he wants to fight the Super Saiyan God again so you gather the Saiyans and ascend into a level only heard in legends. And then to Unlock SSGSS you have to have completed the story and you train with Whis and complete his training. For Super "Vegeta" 1 and 2 why not Your Name instead of Vegeta's? You know Vegeta would be mad if he heard you using his name.
For the rest of the Races, I guess they need equality. (To compare with Saiyans) You did a good job sharing your idea with us. :clap:

User avatar
BlazingBarrrager
I Live Here
Posts: 2058
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:07 am
Location: Space USA
Contact:

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by BlazingBarrrager » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:27 pm

Balancing...really? That's not balancing. That's a total mess of fanboyism. Seriously giving every race five or so freaken transformations has to be one of the dumbest ideas you can suggest for a game (despite Heroes doing that already). Why does everyone keep thinking are CaCs are Goku, Piccolo, Freeza, Beerus, etc when they're clearly not? Xenoverse giving Saiyan CaCs SSJ and SSJ2 was fine enough as it is (although separating them into two versions for strike users and ki blast users was stupid), and the inclusion of Unlock Potential in DLC Pack 3 gave every race a transformation to work with. We also had three levels of Kaio-Ken included in the game with x20 giving you infinite Stamina use outside of dashing. Seriously that's all we need. If anything, I want Xenoverse to improve the mechanics of these transformations to make them more sensible. No infinite skill use on Super Saiyans, no pitiful stat boosts on forms outside of Kaio-Ken, and make it to where you can actually ascend from SSJ to SSJ2 instead of using one or the other like "Battle of Z." Really why do people think that all races need transformations because Saiyans have them? I mean for Kami sakes a character can be as powerful as another character that's transformed!

So yeah...stop thinking about your desires and start thinking about the logical.

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6019
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:51 pm

I still want a usable Golden Freeza transformation though.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
BlazingBarrrager
I Live Here
Posts: 2058
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:07 am
Location: Space USA
Contact:

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by BlazingBarrrager » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:23 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:I still want a usable Golden Freeza transformation though.
This is alright. Since it's only so powerful because, well it's Freeza, and it acts like a normal transformation it could be used as an alternative to Unlock Potential for Freeza Race. It's color scheme would also be easy since it could match the color scheme of your CaC.

But yeah not all races need a transformation besides "Unlock Potential and Kaio-Ken." Earthlings, Majins, and Namekians do just fine without them (although if they allow giant characters in the sequel Namekians can get Great Namek). As I said before, a character can be just as powerful not transformed as another character who is transformed.

User avatar
KentalSSJ6
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6473
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:03 am
Location: Chicago, Illinois.

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:21 am

Personally, as long as custom Saiyans are allowed SSJ4 and/or SSGSS, id be fine.

Giving Freeza race customs the choice between Cooler or Freeza's Super form would be a nice touch for fans of either version.

Namekians could get a sort of giant form where their maximum stamina is doubled. But if it gets drained they enter a stunned state similar to Oozaru enemies.

Majins could get a Kid Buu like form or Super Buu like form (unless the devs address fan complaints over the lack of either of those from Xenoverse).

Humans could have Unlock Potential like Krillin and Gohan had in B3.

And the Kaioshin ritual unlock could be a bonus for all races like it is in Xenoverse already.
Deviantart (NSFW) - http://yamato012.deviantart.com/
DBSW Group Page - http://dbsw.deviantart.com/
Still the 1k Sniper - [spoiler]http://orig10.deviantart.net/6a02/f/201 ... 8npe7r.png[/spoiler]

Captain Strawberry
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:59 pm
Location: Where I wander

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by Captain Strawberry » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:46 am

BlazingBarrrager wrote:Balancing...really? That's not balancing. That's a total mess of fanboyism. Seriously giving every race five or so freaken transformations has to be one of the dumbest ideas you can suggest for a game (despite Heroes doing that already). Why does everyone keep thinking are CaCs are Goku, Piccolo, Freeza, Beerus, etc when they're clearly not? Xenoverse giving Saiyan CaCs SSJ and SSJ2 was fine enough as it is (although separating them into two versions for strike users and ki blast users was stupid), and the inclusion of Unlock Potential in DLC Pack 3 gave every race a transformation to work with. We also had three levels of Kaio-Ken included in the game with x20 giving you infinite Stamina use outside of dashing. Seriously that's all we need. If anything, I want Xenoverse to improve the mechanics of these transformations to make them more sensible. No infinite skill use on Super Saiyans, no pitiful stat boosts on forms outside of Kaio-Ken, and make it to where you can actually ascend from SSJ to SSJ2 instead of using one or the other like "Battle of Z." Really why do people think that all races need transformations because Saiyans have them? I mean for Kami sakes a character can be as powerful as another character that's transformed!

So yeah...stop thinking about your desires and start thinking about the logical.
I tried by best so every transformation isn't exactly the same.
Kuro Tenshi

I am just a simple traveller

Captain Strawberry
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:59 pm
Location: Where I wander

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by Captain Strawberry » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:48 am

Fresh Prince wrote:
I agree with this, I just hope it works like Mystic Form from DLC 3 (Where you can't spam as much like SSJ/2). My Idea to Unlock SSG is you train with Beerus and he wants to fight the Super Saiyan God again so you gather the Saiyans and ascend into a level only heard in legends. And then to Unlock SSGSS you have to have completed the story and you train with Whis and complete his training. For Super "Vegeta" 1 and 2 why not Your Name instead of Vegeta's? You know Vegeta would be mad if he heard you using his name.
For the rest of the Races, I guess they need equality. (To compare with Saiyans) You did a good job sharing your idea with us. :clap:
Super Vegeta can focus on endurance and Vegeta & Trunks related attacks are stronger.
Kuro Tenshi

I am just a simple traveller

Captain Strawberry
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:59 pm
Location: Where I wander

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by Captain Strawberry » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:49 am

Fresh Prince wrote:
I agree with this, I just hope it works like Mystic Form from DLC 3 (Where you can't spam as much like SSJ/2). My Idea to Unlock SSG is you train with Beerus and he wants to fight the Super Saiyan God again so you gather the Saiyans and ascend into a level only heard in legends. And then to Unlock SSGSS you have to have completed the story and you train with Whis and complete his training. For Super "Vegeta" 1 and 2 why not Your Name instead of Vegeta's? You know Vegeta would be mad if he heard you using his name.
For the rest of the Races, I guess they need equality. (To compare with Saiyans) You did a good job sharing your idea with us. :clap:
Were my ideas about on the other races alright? And thanks.
Kuro Tenshi

I am just a simple traveller

User avatar
KentalSSJ6
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6473
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:03 am
Location: Chicago, Illinois.

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:53 am

Just a heads up since your new, but multiposting as you have been is generally frowned upon here on the forum.
Deviantart (NSFW) - http://yamato012.deviantart.com/
DBSW Group Page - http://dbsw.deviantart.com/
Still the 1k Sniper - [spoiler]http://orig10.deviantart.net/6a02/f/201 ... 8npe7r.png[/spoiler]

Captain Strawberry
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:59 pm
Location: Where I wander

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by Captain Strawberry » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:10 am

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Just a heads up since your new, but multiposting as you have been is generally frowned upon here on the forum.
Multiposting? What? Why?
Kuro Tenshi

I am just a simple traveller

User avatar
dbzfan7
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13027
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:55 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:52 pm

Captain Strawberry wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:Just a heads up since your new, but multiposting as you have been is generally frowned upon here on the forum.
Multiposting? What? Why?
Because there is an edit button and multiple quote system. There's no reason to multi-post with the tools at your disposal.

On the topic at hand I think the only way to get a lot more transformations, is to go cosmetic perhaps for some. Or perhaps have some be like a starting point. Kinda like say how SSJ4 Goku is a different character, you simply have the option to create an SSJ4 avatar instead of one that transforms into it. I can maybe see that work.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6019
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:04 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Giving Freeza race customs the choice between Cooler or Freeza's Super form would be a nice touch for fans of either version.
Ideally I'd wan't the ability to unlock Cooler's transformation, and then the Golden transformation as a further powerup after that.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
BlazingBarrrager
I Live Here
Posts: 2058
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:07 am
Location: Space USA
Contact:

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by BlazingBarrrager » Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:11 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:Giving Freeza race customs the choice between Cooler or Freeza's Super form would be a nice touch for fans of either version.
Ideally I'd wan't the ability to unlock Cooler's transformation, and then the Golden transformation as a further powerup after that.
They're the same concept and power-up honestly. Cooler's form is just more drastic in appearance than Ultimate Evolution, but they follow the same concept nonetheless.

User avatar
TheDevilsCorpse
Moderator
Posts: 11377
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:34 am
Contact:

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:23 pm

Does it really matter if they follow the same concept? Super Saiyan 2 is the same concept as Super Saiyan, yet fans still expect both forms for the created characters. We may not have a character that has been shown to use both, but I see no reason not to give both options to the created characters. Especially in the case of the Freeza Clan, where we're already in what-if territory by having them as a race to begin with since Toriyama says they are a new hybrid species and not a proper race.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)

User avatar
BlazingBarrrager
I Live Here
Posts: 2058
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:07 am
Location: Space USA
Contact:

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by BlazingBarrrager » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:03 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Does it really matter if they follow the same concept? Super Saiyan 2 is the same concept as Super Saiyan, yet fans still expect both forms for the created characters. We may not have a character that has been shown to use both, but I see no reason not to give both options to the created characters. Especially in the case of the Freeza Clan, where we're already in what-if territory by having them as a race to begin with since Toriyama says they are a new hybrid species and not a proper race.
I guess that's true. Also didn't Toriyama explain the reason for the Saiyan characters in the series after the Saiyan arc not having tails anymore was because as they grew stronger their body found it to be a weakness and basically discarded the regrowth of it?

User avatar
TheDevilsCorpse
Moderator
Posts: 11377
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:34 am
Contact:

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:08 pm

It's official information as far as I remember, but I'm not sure if he was the one who said it or if it was just a guidebook theory. I do know he said Trunks and Goten might have been born without them because of them being a recessive gene or whatever. Not that that makes too much sense...
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)

User avatar
BlazingBarrrager
I Live Here
Posts: 2058
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:07 am
Location: Space USA
Contact:

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by BlazingBarrrager » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:05 am

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:It's official information as far as I remember, but I'm not sure if he was the one who said it or if it was just a guidebook theory. I do know he said Trunks and Goten might have been born without them because of them being a recessive gene or whatever. Not that that makes too much sense...
I think he stated this in an interview as well as why Gohan and Vegeta's tails never grew back. Would also make sense as to why our Saiyan CaCs never had tails outside of outfits...well that and certain scenes involving Oozaru fights.

Truhan
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:42 pm

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by Truhan » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:33 pm

Long posting incoming... I based my idea on how I wanted SSJ Grades to be methodic improvements over the same transformation, like a customizable stat set. Take this as a scenario: a character found out that someone was faster and stronger than him, but still within reach in terms of power with a transformation that sacrificed speed.

Grade 2 SSJ:
[][][][][][] Power
[][][][][][] Speed
[][][] Stamina

Note: I took two bars from Stamina and placed them on Power and Speed.

Grade 3 SSJ:
[][][][][][][] Power
[][][][] Speed
[][][][] Stamina

Note: I took two bars from Speed and placed them on Power and Stamina (arbitrary).

There should be two classes of Super Saiyan available:

- custom, to upgrade power, speed and stamina differently, meaning you could create a variation of Grade 3 where speed is the best attribute. You force one or two elements as the highest, and the others eventually catch up as you fight and gain experience, until they're leveled at Full Power.

- automatic, to upgrade power, speed and stamina equally, which means there are no drawbacks, nor advantages. You still have to fill those attributes until you've reached Full Power, and are allowed to transform. This method requires less management, but takes more time to see the results.

Also, it would be more advantageous having two of them balanced than a totally uneven distribution. Here's an example, starting from this set up:

-- First Iteration --
[][][][][][][] Power
[][][][] Speed
[][][][] Stamina

-- Second Iteration --
[][][][][][][] Power
[][][][][] Speed
[][][][][] Stamina

... instead of:

-- Second Iteration --
[][][][][][][] Power
[][][][][][] Speed
[][][][] Stamina

User avatar
BlazingBarrrager
I Live Here
Posts: 2058
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:07 am
Location: Space USA
Contact:

Re: Tranformations Balance Idea

Post by BlazingBarrrager » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:50 pm

Truhan wrote:Long posting incoming... I based my idea on how I wanted SSJ Grades to be methodic improvements over the same transformation, like a customizable stat set. Take this as a scenario: a character found out that someone was faster and stronger than him, but still within reach in terms of power with a transformation that sacrificed speed.

Grade 2 SSJ:
[][][][][][] Power
[][][][][][] Speed
[][][] Stamina

Note: I took two bars from Stamina and placed them on Power and Speed.

Grade 3 SSJ:
[][][][][][][] Power
[][][][] Speed
[][][][] Stamina

Note: I took two bars from Speed and placed them on Power and Stamina (arbitrary).

There should be two classes of Super Saiyan available:

- custom, to upgrade power, speed and stamina differently, meaning you could create a variation of Grade 3 where speed is the best attribute. You force one or two elements as the highest, and the others eventually catch up as you fight and gain experience, until they're leveled at Full Power.

- automatic, to upgrade power, speed and stamina equally, which means there are no drawbacks, nor advantages. You still have to fill those attributes until you've reached Full Power, and are allowed to transform. This method requires less management, but takes more time to see the results.

Also, it would be more advantageous having two of them balanced than a totally uneven distribution. Here's an example, starting from this set up:

-- First Iteration --
[][][][][][][] Power
[][][][] Speed
[][][][] Stamina

-- Second Iteration --
[][][][][][][] Power
[][][][][] Speed
[][][][][] Stamina

... instead of:

-- Second Iteration --
[][][][][][][] Power
[][][][][][] Speed
[][][][] Stamina
Considering the fact that our CaCs can go SSJ2 this would be pointless. That and, to be frank, our CaCs are capable of fighting on par with big shot villains like Super Buu ingame in base form (yes it's a gameplay mechanic, but that doesn't stop characters from pointing this out).

Post Reply