Episode #0184 (26 July 2009)

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:38 pm

And a Funi rep

I don't know about that Julian guy, though...

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:40 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:And a Funi rep

I don't know about that Julian guy, though...

Julian? What's a Julian? Is that a food?

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:43 pm

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:And a Funi rep

I don't know about that Julian guy, though...
Julian? What's a Julian? Is that a food?

No. You're thinking of "marriage." "Marriage" is a food. "Julian" is just some obscure poop joke from Dr. Slump.

Just kidding. You're awesome, Julian!

Big Boss · Post by **Big Boss** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:04 am

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:And a Funi rep

I don't know about that Julian guy, though...
Julian? What's a Julian? Is that a food?

I typed in "Julian" on Google images, and the first thing that came up was this!

Is that a "Julian"?

fps_anth · Post by **fps_anth** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:09 am

OMG I loved this episode. I cannot wait until you guys speak with the FUNi rep.

I am extremely excited about this release. I think the only North American announcement that has come close excitement-wise for me was the release of the first Daizenshuu.

I've also been a fan of the show since it started airing in Canada on YTV. I've pretty much been through it all. Owning the Dragon Boxes weren't just a DVD set that I really wanted, it was a DVD set I dreamed of owning. The feeling of watching the show in DBOX quality on the two R2 discs I purchased was heavenly. Now I'll be getting the entire series in said quality, for an amazing price, with English subtitles. Wow.

This is up there with my "Most hyped things ever". Up there with Twilight Princess. Up there with Brawl. Up there with the Unremastered Star Wars Trilogy on DVD (I guess that's the most exciting DVD release I've experienced until now lol). I'm, quite literally, giddy.

Oh, and Rock the Dragon has to be in the releases

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:23 am

Big Boss wrote:Is that a "Julian"?

That's a fairy Julian.

Char Aznable · Post by **Char Aznable** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:12 am

That was definitely one of the best podcast episodes ever, but I'm not surprised due to the news that sparked it. I have to say, after all of the forum discussions we've had around it, participating in debates, agreeing with some points and disagreeing with others, etc., I have to say that I completely agree with everything said in this episode, especially the final point - this is it, we finally have what we've always wanted and even beyond that. In the end, that's what matters most.

Hearing the technical commentary has really set a few things straight in my mind. Reading similar things on the forum have helped, but actually hearing it in my ears in podcast form have really sealed it for me. Six or seven discs, either way this is going to look great.

Hope to hear you on the show next week Julian, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the news. ^_^

Also since the Ocean dub and Rock the Dragon were mentioned in the show, I figure a thought I've had in mind is sort of relevant here - in the midst of buying up these Dragon Boxes, I've been toying with the idea in my mind of wanting to buy the Ocean dub DVD singles as well, seeing as how they're going for only a couple dollars each on eBay. I've never owned the VHS, and finding anything Ocean dub always seemed to be a pain in the ass for me to find in stores. While the Dragon Boxes are what I've always wanted, part of me wants to buy the Ocean dub just because that's the DBZ that I've grown up on - so essentially, an unnecessary nostalgic purchase. =P

Kind of makes the collection feel more complete, I suppose. I also partly blame Brian Drummond and Scott McNeil.

All in all, most awesome coverage and a great convergence of the best sites this fandom has to offer. Keep it up!

MarcFBR · Post by **MarcFBR** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:49 am

My point wasn't to not email politely, my point was, some people are absolutely flipping out, as if the set being six disks will RUIN CIVILIZATION.

The difference between 6 and 7 disks will be decided based on relative quality versus relative cost (which is more than the cost of the disk alone).

E-mailing Funimation may make them aware of it, but they will not be changing anything based purely on e-mail.

I don't recall if I brought it up in the podcast or not, but it's unlikely Funimation actually upped the disk count on the orange bricks purely because of e-mails by fans. More than likely their authoring guys were outright asked if there was a concern, and there was.

The truth of the matter is, nearly every release Funimation does nowadays is a boxset, and basically every set has half the disks have 7 episodes on them, with 2 audio tracks (which is also how I came up with the 2 192k audio tracks) without any problems (yes I know this is a relative argument for every DVD), but moving UP to 7 disks could theoretically create more problems.

(Remembering I'm theorizing numbers based purely on what is reasonable).

Let's say with 6 disks they go with 2 192 audio tracks, then the max bitrate for video would be 9.4

But wait, Funi decides to do 7, hooray! And since they have all that extra space... maybe they add a 5.1 audio track at 448, and decide to bump up the mono to what the Japanese Dboxes had, at 448. Well then the max bitrate is down to around 8.6, while the max of the Japanese disks was around 9.3...

So what happens to the scenes that need that bitrate the MOST... maybe nothing.

Plus Funimation is likely working off Digibetas, or raws delivered in some other form, not off the disks themselves, so doing a fresh encode even at a lower bitrate may lead to absolutely no difference, based on the competence of Toeis people half a decade ago versus Funi's people now.

Like I mentioned in the podcast, I played with a GT Dbox episode Hujio gave me, removed around 10% of the data, gave it back to him. Watching side by side with his disk he couldn't notice ANY difference.

My main point in complaining about the 'bitching' was that we just don't know how they are gonna be, but regardless, they should look fine. Don't worry, be happy, look forward to the episodes, even if they aren't exact, they should still look amazing. If you want to make Funimation aware of a potential issue, by all means do so, just don't freak out yet.

And if they don't look good.... 'puts on monocle and wings' I'LL TAKE THE CASE! and make sure everyone knows within hours of having the set.

Son Wukong · Post by **Son Wukong** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:40 am

Funimation: ''This is for the hardcore fans''

Hardcore fan: ''Wait, we exist now?''

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAAH!!!!!

MarcFBR · Post by **MarcFBR** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:52 am

Son Wukong wrote:Funimation: ''This is for the hardcore fans''

Hardcore fan: ''Wait, we exist now?''

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAAH!!!!!

At some point the fish start noticing other fish are missing, and better bait is required to get them to bite.

Big Boss · Post by **Big Boss** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:40 am

godofchaos wrote:My point wasn't to not email politely, my point was, some people are absolutely flipping out, as if the set being six disks will RUIN CIVILIZATION.

The difference between 6 and 7 disks will be decided based on relative quality versus relative cost (which is more than the cost of the disk alone).

E-mailing Funimation may make them aware of it, but they will not be changing anything based purely on e-mail.

I don't recall if I brought it up in the podcast or not, but it's unlikely Funimation actually upped the disk count on the orange bricks purely because of e-mails by fans. More than likely their authoring guys were outright asked if there was a concern, and there was.

The truth of the matter is, nearly every release Funimation does nowadays is a boxset, and basically every set has half the disks have 7 episodes on them, with 2 audio tracks (which is also how I came up with the 2 192k audio tracks) without any problems (yes I know this is a relative argument for every DVD), but moving UP to 7 disks could theoretically create more problems.

(Remembering I'm theorizing numbers based purely on what is reasonable).

Let's say with 6 disks they go with 2 192 audio tracks, then the max bitrate for video would be 9.4

But wait, Funi decides to do 7, hooray! And since they have all that extra space... maybe they add a 5.1 audio track at 448, and decide to bump up the mono to what the Japanese Dboxes had, at 448. Well then the max bitrate is down to around 8.6, while the max of the Japanese disks was around 9.3...

So what happens to the scenes that need that bitrate the MOST... maybe nothing.

Plus Funimation is likely working off Digibetas, or raws delivered in some other form, not off the disks themselves, so doing a fresh encode even at a lower bitrate may lead to absolutely no difference, based on the competence of Toeis people half a decade ago versus Funi's people now.

Like I mentioned in the podcast, I played with a GT Dbox episode Hujio gave me, removed around 10% of the data, gave it back to him. Watching side by side with his disk he couldn't notice ANY difference.

My main point in complaining about the 'bitching' was that we just don't know how they are gonna be, but regardless, they should look fine. Don't worry, be happy, look forward to the episodes, even if they aren't exact, they should still look amazing. If you want to make Funimation aware of a potential issue, by all means do so, just don't freak out yet.

And if they don't look good.... 'puts on monocle and wings' I'LL TAKE THE CASE! and make sure everyone knows within hours of having the set.

Interesting.

Good to know that, even with 6 disks, the video quality will probably be un-noticeably different. I mean, even if our emails don't work, at least we've let FUNi know that we are aware of this. Maybe they'll take extra care in encoding instead of upping the disk count, now? Meh, who knows. I just want to enjoy that we're finally getting the Dragon Box.

Tanooki Kuribo · Post by **Tanooki Kuribo** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:37 pm

Yea, I gotta admit I was worried about the 6 disc thing and was pretty close to jumping on that "We need 7 disc OMG" ban wagon. But, I trust GodOfChaos's judgment when it comes to technical DVD stuff. He knows his shit. If he says we really don't need 6 disc then... we really don't need 6 disc.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:56 pm

Tanooki Kuribo wrote:Yea, I gotta admit I was worried about the 6 disc thing and was pretty close to jumping on that "We need 6 disc OMG" ban wagon. But, I trust GodOfChaos's judgment when it comes to technical DVD stuff. He knows his shit. If he says we really don't need 6 disc then... we really don't need 6 disc.

You were worried about having six discs?

What "We need 6 disc OMG" band wagon? I didn't know there were people against the 7th disc...

I don't think 6 discs could hurt...

Tanooki Kuribo · Post by **Tanooki Kuribo** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:20 pm

This ban wagon... http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=10999

Edit: OH, I see I made a typo. Gotcha. Well I fixed it so... yea.

MarcFBR · Post by **MarcFBR** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:47 pm

Hell, skip my opinion and ask Hujio.

I took an episode off Hujio's GT Box, which he gave me with no video alterations, it's exactly as it is on the Japanese disk.

I then redid it to remove 10% of the bitrate, which going over numbers, is what me and Hujio believe is a 'worst case' (or close to worst case) deduction based on what we know of the Funi sets.

I then sent this new 90% GT episode BACK to Hujio.

He then watched his original side by side with the 90%, in detail, looking for issues, differences, ANYTHING.

He found nothing, and outright said, if he didn't look and see the filesize was clearly different, he'd think I just sent the episode right back to him.

Brakus · Post by **Brakus** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:31 am

Wow, how long has it been since I've posted in here?

Still listening to the Podcast with about 11 minutes to go, but here are some of my thoughts:

-- I was stunned at Otakon to find out the announcement, much as Mike and Meri were stunned. It'll be great to see these come out at an affordable price point. Just think how disappointed we all would have been if they came out and said "We licensed DBZ Abridged" instead....

-- I think the fact that people have bought FUNimation's releases (of DBZ, FMA, Fruits Basket, Afro Samurai, One Piece, Ouran HS HC, etc) made this possible in a huge way. It's true that when you support the anime industry, you make more anime available to the fans. Don't forget, Casshern Sins and Eden of the East got licensed too, and I've been wanting to see those two series licensed over here, and FUNi has them, thanks to people buying FUNi's DVDs legitimately. All the more reason to buy your anime legally wherever possible, don't steal it!

-- Considering that the Dragon Box will be marketed toward the hardcores, I'd make a strong bet that the English dub that will be included will be the "English-With-Japanese-BGM" track, the one that actually I preferred. I cannot stand watching DBZ with the Faulconer/Menza music in the background, now that I've had a chance to hear the English dub as it was meant to be heard. The emotion of the music complements the action and (most) dialogue of the series. I wouldn't dream of having FUNi including any other English dub but the English-With-Japanese-BGM. Here's also hoping they restore the insert songs that were removed from the episodes in the Orange Bricks.

-- As far as extras go, I'm not sure what would be included for an English-speaking audience. There *was* that "Goku vs. Vegeta" featurette that came out on Volume 1 of the Ultimate Uncuts, and I'd think that'd be included. I'd love to see Japanese commercials, as well as show promos both in Japanese and in English... Toonami DBZ promos as extras would definitely rock!

I don't think we'll see anything like the Burger King commercials, more due to legal concerns. As an example, Transformers Season 1 was recently re-released through Shout Entertainment, and they included some toy commercials from Hasbro, but the children's faces are all blurred out because they didn't want to go through the legal rigamarole of getting permission/clearance from those children (who are now all grown up).

I'll add to this once I finish listening to the Podcast, but yeah.... this is awesome to hear your discussion.

Hero 004 · Post by **Hero 004** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:34 am

Though you said you were playing devil's advocate, I do agree with what you said about dub fans at one point in the episode, Mike. I think hardcore Dragon Ball fans who prefer the English dub such as myself have also gone through a lot of crap over the years when it comes to the DVD releases of Z and deserve these Dragon Boxes just as much. That being said, I hope they're being aimed just as much at us and I'm really glad an English track is available.
It was hard enough getting everything as it appeared when I fell in love with it on TV and I was full throttle into the Ultimate Uncut Special Editions. When they were canceled I was devastated that I was going to have that many missing episodes. I still own and watch the Ultimate Uncut singles.
As I've said many times, I was very upset with the orange brick sets and did not purchase any of the cropped seasons or movies/specials.
I hope that the English track available is on top of the Japanese music that was put together for the orange bricks. I've waited ten years to hear the English DBZ with Japanese music to be consistent with the dub of DB. It would be amazing to see it on 4:3 and truly digitally remastered. Either way, I could not be more excited for Dragon Box Z in the States.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:09 pm

godofchaos wrote:Hell, skip my opinion and ask Hujio.

I took an episode off Hujio's GT Box, which he gave me with no video alterations, it's exactly as it is on the Japanese disk.

I then redid it to remove 10% of the bitrate, which going over numbers, is what me and Hujio believe is a 'worst case' (or close to worst case) deduction based on what we know of the Funi sets.

I then sent this new 90% GT episode BACK to Hujio.

He then watched his original side by side with the 90%, in detail, looking for issues, differences, ANYTHING.

He found nothing, and outright said, if he didn't look and see the filesize was clearly different, he'd think I just sent the episode right back to him.

Just out of curiosity, why did you use and episode of GT? I know that taking 10% of the bitrate from one thing should have the same basic affect on -10% from another thing, but with DBZ's older animation, might it suffer slightly more from a decrease in bitrate than a GT episode? Granted, based on Hujio's response it would probably still have virtually no affect on the appearance of the episode, I just thought it was a little weird that you guys opted for an episode from a difference series.

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:12 pm

SSj_Rambo wrote:
godofchaos wrote:Hell, skip my opinion and ask Hujio.

I took an episode off Hujio's GT Box, which he gave me with no video alterations, it's exactly as it is on the Japanese disk.

I then redid it to remove 10% of the bitrate, which going over numbers, is what me and Hujio believe is a 'worst case' (or close to worst case) deduction based on what we know of the Funi sets.

I then sent this new 90% GT episode BACK to Hujio.

He then watched his original side by side with the 90%, in detail, looking for issues, differences, ANYTHING.

He found nothing, and outright said, if he didn't look and see the filesize was clearly different, he'd think I just sent the episode right back to him.
Just out of curiosity, why did you use and episode of GT? I know that taking 10% of the bitrate from one thing should have the same basic affect on -10% from another thing, but with DBZ's older animation, might it suffer slightly more from a decrease in bitrate than a GT episode? Granted, based on Hujio's response it would probably still have virtually no affect on the appearance of the episode, I just thought it was a little weird that you guys opted for an episode from a difference series.

Well, I remember Hujio saying he had his DBZ boxes packed up, and GT was all he could get to...

MarcFBR · Post by **MarcFBR** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:23 pm

Kick Hujio or someone else to send a Z, and I'll do it again.

FOR SCIENCE!

Kanzenshuu

Episode #0184 (26 July 2009)

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