Censorship in Kai: How Do You Feel About It?

[Victator Supreme]

"Hey fans, you don't have to listen to the show in 20-year-old mono anymore, fuck you!"

"Hey fans, you're getting an all-new, specially-crafted-by-a-DB-music-veteran soundtrack, fuck you!"

"Hey fans, you get newly re-animated footage, fuck you!"

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5928/nnn1.png

That destroys any argument you can make.

[DemonRin]

"Hey fans, you don't have to listen to the show in 20-year-old mono anymore, fuck you!"

"Hey fans, you're getting an all-new, specially-crafted-by-a-DB-music-veteran soundtrack, fuck you!"

"Hey fans, you get newly re-animated footage, fuck you!"

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5928/nnn1.png

That destroys any argument you can make.

Haha, No, not at all.

Fuji forced it on them. Japanese TV Standards have changed. Censorship sucks, but it was a requirement to get it on TV.

So if anything, FUJI are the ones saying "Fuck you", not Toei. Or even better, Society and censorship laws in Japan are the ones saying Fuck You.

Try Again

[Victator Supreme]

"Hey fans, you don't have to listen to the show in 20-year-old mono anymore, fuck you!"

"Hey fans, you're getting an all-new, specially-crafted-by-a-DB-music-veteran soundtrack, fuck you!"

"Hey fans, you get newly re-animated footage, fuck you!"

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5928/nnn1.png

That destroys any argument you can make.

Haha, No, not at all.

Fuji forced it on them. Japanese TV Standards have changed. Censorship sucks, but it was a requirement to get it on TV.

So if anything, FUJI are the ones saying "Fuck you", not Toei. Or even better, Society and censorship laws in Japan are the ones saying Fuck You.

Try Again

Doesnt matter why it still trumps all.

[DemonRin]

It. Has. Been. Twenty. Years.
Japanese. Television. Standards. Have. Changed.
This was required, thanks to the new standards and Fuji TV and is perfectly fine because of that. I don't like it, but it was either censor the show, or not put the show on TV, and I want me some Stereo, Fillerless Dragon Ball.

They handled the hole a little poorly, but Dragon Ball wasn't ever about that one Time Son got a huge hole in his chest.

He still died. there was still sad Music. Kuririn still shouted "GOKUUUU". Son still goes to Kaios to get training.

HEY, would you look at that!! The Show still works without it.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

It. Has. Been. Twenty. Years.
Japanese. Television. Standards. Have. Changed.

You know, as many times as I've seen you type like that, it hasn't actually improved my understanding of what you're tying at all. It. Doesn't. Simplify. Anything.

This was required, thanks to the new standards and Fuji TV and is perfectly fine because of that. I don't like it, but it was either censor the show, or not put the show on TV, and I want me some Stereo, Fillerless Dragon Ball.

Where's your proof that it was at the network level, not Toei? And even if that's the case, how do you know Fuji could not have been talked out of it? Or perhaps had Kai shown in a less restricted timeslot?

And why does it matter whose fault it is, anyway? How does who did it change anything?

They handled the hole a little poorly, but Dragon Ball wasn't ever about that one Time Son got a huge hole in his chest.

It doesn't have to be the "Very CORE MEANING of the series" to matter. Something is redoubtably lost when you only cover the very core of something.

He still died. there was still sad Music. Kuririn still shouted "GOKUUUU". Son still goes to Kaios to get training.

Reminds me of the Funi dub of that scene!

HEY, would you look at that!! The Show still works without it.

And even though you get the bare minimum of the scene, something is lost in the end.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Uncensored anime DVD releases happen all the time. I don't know why you think it's some kind of big deal...

Uncensored anime that also got a censored release? And did these uncensored DVD releases feature footage that had anything similar to what's going on with Kai done to them (censoring-wise)? I don't mean to sound snarky or anything, I just really didn't think anime got that much treatment in Japan.

Scenes are censored in anime on TV all the time. Then, when it's released on DVD, they show the uncensored scenes. It's pretty common. You can find comparison shots online.

[DemonRin]

You know, as many times as I've seen you type like that, it hasn't actually improved my understanding of what you're tying at all. It. Doesn't. Simplify. Anything.

You know, as many times as I've seen you make that argument, it hasn't really changed the fact that Japanese TV standards are different now, and these changes HAD to get made or else the show wouldn't have gotten on TV.

Where's your proof that it was at the network level, not Toei? And even if that's the case, how do you know Fuji could not have been talked out of it? Or perhaps had Kai shown in a less restricted timeslot?

Either way, it's not "OMFG, EVIL COMPANY WANTING TO SCREW US" it's "Japanese society has changed, and so what's allowed on TV has changed too"
Someone HAD to have complained to get the standards changed, it's their Fault. But I want my Faster-paced, Stereo Dragon Ball, so if editing the show was required to get it on TV, It's fine.

And why does it matter whose fault it is, anyway? How does who did it change anything?

Did you miss the page everyone got on that guy's case for saying "Toei was basically saying Fuck you to the fanbase"?

It doesn't have to be the "Very CORE MEANING of the series" to matter. Something is redoubtably lost when you only cover the very core of something.

Yeah...
1: all the Original Actors
2: There WAS blood there
3: The Story was EXACTLY the same
4: The ONLY CHANGE was the hole, and the Blood directly related to the hole.

HOW IS IT that it was stripped down to just the "Core Meaning" of the scene?
All of the proper elements are there, there was just ONE aspect removed, but everything else remained constant. That's MUCH MORE than just the "Core Meaning".

Reminds me of the Funi dub of that scene!

Ok, I'm getting REALLY tired of this. You want me to stop talking about TV Standards changing? Practice what you preach hypocrite.
You Kai-Haters won't stop saying that Kai is As bad as FUNi and/or Saban, and I'm getting sick of it.
Newsflash folks: FUNi and Saban screwed up a LOT in this series, FAR more than just the reasonable censorship.
The shit they censored to get it on TV was fine, the problem with Saban and FUNi was the HORRENDOUS SCRIPT EDITS!! "Your Father was a GREAT SCIENTIST" "I. FEEL. GREAT! I. CAN. DO. THIS." "It was a Cargo Robot!" "You just wait till it grows back!", Pretty much EVERY LINE FREEZA SAID TO SON!! Especially calling him "Big Boy".
Stop, just stop. At least what I'm saying is true. Japanese TV standards HAVE changed.
Kai. Is. Nowhere. Near. As. Bad. As. Either. Of. the. English. Dubs.
And as long as they don't deviate from the original script, it never will be.

And even though you get the bare minimum of the scene, something is lost in the end.

Again, that's the ONLY element of the scene that was Removed.
That doesn't make "Bare Minimum". that isn't even statistically Half.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

You know, as many times as I've seen you make that argument, it hasn't really changed the fact that Japanese TV standards are different now, and these changes HAD to get made or else the show wouldn't have gotten on TV.

I don't see why you're so sure it was an absolute necessity. Even if it was, the way it was handled has ended up looking ridiculous for the majority of the censored shots(some simply crop the "offensive" material out of the shot, which works well if you have to take it out).

Either way, it's not "OMFG, EVIL COMPANY WANTING TO SCREW US" it's "Japanese society has changed, and so what's allowed on TV has changed too"

Or "Toei wants to cash in on a proven franchise for the kids' demographic, and decided to play it safe.", which is another possibility.

Someone HAD to have complained to get the standards changed, it's their Fault.

You'd be surprised how many times something can be censored without complaints from anyone but those who insist someone will complain.

Did you miss the page everyone got on that guy's case for saying "Toei was basically saying Fuck you to the fanbase"?

Toei allowed the censorship, so I'd say that it's an exaggerated but overall valid assessment.

HOW IS IT that it was stripped down to just the "Core Meaning" of the scene?

I wasn't saying it was. You were saying "Goku still gets hit by a beam and dies, the core got across, THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS." But that's just not right. The brutality of the scene lent to its impact, and that impact has been softened. In the same way that an on-screen death is more impactful than falling into a black chasm, the bloody injury had more impact than Goku's first degree burn.

All of the proper elements are there, there was just ONE aspect removed, but everything else remained constant. That's MUCH MORE than just the "Core Meaning".'

A bit more. But the atmosphere, while "mostly" there if you only add up elements like numbers, is ruined by the ludicrous light gray "wound". It's like putting a clown nose on Goku during the entirety of the scene.

Ok, I'm getting REALLY tired of this. You want me to stop talking about TV Standards changing? Practice what you preach hypocrite.

...Taking this discussion personally, much?

You Kai-Haters

Groupthink and generalizations are bad.

won't stop saying that Kai is As bad as FUNi and/or Saban, and I'm getting sick of it.

I think you'll have to weather it, though. Considering that we're generally allowed to hold that opinion.

Newsflash folks: FUNi and Saban screwed up a LOT in this series, FAR more than just the reasonable censorship.

Funi actually changed less than Kai is changing. How much is "screw-up" and how much is "reasonable" is down to personal opinion.

The shit they censored to get it on TV was fine, the problem with Saban and FUNi was the HORRENDOUS SCRIPT EDITS!! "Your Father was a GREAT SCIENTIST" "I. FEEL. GREAT! I. CAN. DO. THIS." "It was a Cargo Robot!" "You just wait till it grows back!", Pretty much EVERY LINE FREEZA SAID TO SON!! Especially calling him "Big Boy".

They don't have to copy exactly, or have the exact same severity for a comparison to be drawn, especially when we're specifically talking about censorship rather than the overall quality of the series.

Stop, just stop.

How about this? I'll trade my ability to be critical of Kai for your ability to praise it. Never say anything good about Kai, and I'll stop.

At least what I'm saying is true. Japanese TV standards HAVE changed.

Cite sources, yadda yadda, show me how Kai could not have found a timeslot in which it could play uncensored.

Has Dragon Ball Z been rerun in Japan any time recently, by the way?

Kai. Is. Nowhere. Near. As. Bad. As. Either. Of. the. English. Dubs.

Excessive. Punctuation. Still. Not. Clarifying. Anything.

It's. Still. Annoying.

You can't prove it conclusively, because it's a subjective issue. All the same, it still remains that it doesn't have to be "just as" bad to make a lot of the same mistakes, and end up worse for it.

And as long as they don't deviate from the original script, it never will be.

There are a ton of things that could be done with the same exact script alone to ruin a show.

-Bad delivery of lines
-Removing all on-screen violence
-Replacing the animation with the scribbles of a 5 year-old in a frame per second slideshow
-Superimpose kitten's faces over everybody's heads.

Exaggerations, sure. But you can take the exact same script and end up with a lesser product. See that terrible line-for-line remake of Psycho, for example. Or a particularly badly-done High School production of Shakespeare.

Again, that's the ONLY element of the scene that was Removed.
That doesn't make "Bare Minimum". that isn't even statistically Half.

Swap Goku and Piccolo's skin pigmentation. Now Goku's green and Piccolo's tan. By your method of evaluation, the resulting scene would be barely off.

[Victator Supreme]

It. Has. Been. Twenty. Years.
Japanese. Television. Standards. Have. Changed.
This was required, thanks to the new standards and Fuji TV and is perfectly fine because of that. I don't like it, but it was either censor the show, or not put the show on TV, and I want me some Stereo, Fillerless Dragon Ball.

They handled the hole a little poorly, but Dragon Ball wasn't ever about that one Time Son got a huge hole in his chest.

He still died. there was still sad Music. Kuririn still shouted "GOKUUUU". Son still goes to Kaios to get training.

HEY, would you look at that!! The Show still works without it.

DO NOT CARE. STILL VERY STUPID. WAS STUPID WHEN SABAN DID IT. EVEN STUPIDER NOW. SCENE NO LONGER WORK. CHARACTERS LOOK STUPID MOURNING DEAD MAN WITH LIGHT BRUISE.

[Mosaic]

Fuji forced it on them. Japanese TV Standards have changed.

...Is there an offical press-release saying this?

[Kunzait_83]

b

[Kaboom]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5928/nnn1.png

That destroys any argument you can make.

Haha, yeah right. How, exactly? I, as a viewer, am still perfectly content to deal with one or two toned-down instances of violence in exchange for all of Kai's good points. Just because I know that yes, there should be a big bloody gaping hole there doesn't mean the lack of it has ruined my experience with the show or the show's overall quality.

[Rod]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5928/nnn1.png

That destroys any argument you can make.

Haha, yeah right. How, exactly? I, as a viewer, am still perfectly content to deal with one or two toned-down instances of violence in exchange for all of Kai's good points. Just because I know that yes, there should be a big bloody gaping hole there doesn't mean the lack of it has ruined my experience with the show or the show's overall quality.

So true even though it was a real shame the hole was removed, and the penis thing, well, who wants to see a little kid's thing

[Vino]

Here's Raditz's and Goku's death uncensored with Kai graphics.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/7rz9a3

[Metalwario64]

Here's Raditz's and Goku's death uncensored with Kai graphics.

Uhh... What?

[Vino]

Here's Raditz's and Goku's death uncensored with Kai graphics.

Uhh... What?

Ahaha..sorry I forgot to add the link xD

[ultimateemail5000]

They never really re-animated anything, sure some things are moved in different spots. All they did was George Lucas the thing, butcher it (I actually thought it would be better but it's not). Tracing the original images and then animating it for HD is just tracing. Some of the backgrounds aren't even the same, they look like something off of Flash. I like Flash, but seriously, nothing compares to cel animation.

The thing about the fillers that doesn't make any sense. Here is an example

CHICHI: Goku, have you seen Gohan?

GOKU: NO! But we gotta go to Master Roshi's, I'll find him!

And where is Gohan you ask? Oh he's just you know....SITTING ON A FUCKING LOG LOOKING AT A BIRD ON A STREAMING RIVER GOING ABOUT 70MPH! Yeah it was in the original, but that entire scene was completely uncalled for. They could have atleast crammed in how he got on the log.

[JulieYBM]

Toei was expecting their audience to think "Oh, he's out playing in the forest...then get's in trouble...then get's saved by his pappy." It's hardly a big leap for a seven year old to make.

[B]

They never really re-animated anything, sure some things are moved in different spots. All they did was George Lucas the thing, butcher it (I actually thought it would be better but it's not). Tracing the original images and then animating it for HD is just tracing. Some of the backgrounds aren't even the same, they look like something off of Flash. I like Flash, but seriously, nothing compares to cel animation.

The thing about the fillers that doesn't make any sense. Here is an example

CHICHI: Goku, have you seen Gohan?

GOKU: NO! But we gotta go to Master Roshi's, I'll find him!

And where is Gohan you ask? Oh he's just you know....SITTING ON A FUCKING LOG LOOKING AT A BIRD ON A STREAMING RIVER GOING ABOUT 70MPH! Yeah it was in the original, but that entire scene was completely uncalled for. They could have atleast crammed in how he got on the log.

Wow, what the fuck? Let's see:

1) Why do you care HOW they're refreshing the series? I don't care if they trace over scenes, so long as the result isn't crap. Methods mean nothing.
2) "HEY GUYS OLD ANIMATION > NEW ANIMATION I'M COOL BECAUSE I'M A REBEL AND SUCH." That's your opinion and it has no reflection on the quality of Kai. I'm not fond of the Saiyan arc, I guess that means DBZ is horrible. Nothing compares to lemonade, all other forms of liquid are disgusting.
3) Why does that MATTER? Why didn't they show Bulma preparing the lunch she brought for Kame House? Why didn't they show Vegeta and Nappa landing on that planet, killing it's inhabitance, and listening in on the transmission from Raditz? THEY COULD HAVE CRAMMED THAT IN!!!!

[Rod]

It's not exactly a big stretch to think a 4 year old kid wondered into the forest and got into trouble, just pretend the river is a lot of people and the forest is a mall.

So I agree with Yugi and B, it was something that didn't need explanation because they're are incredibly obvious