Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Nia » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:37 pm

Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote: Rather, it is the opening theme that the series had in Canada throughout the entirety of its run, regardless of at which point in the series it was, or who the cast was. It was there right from the early FUNi/Saban/Ocean days, right through FUNi's in-house recast and into the Westwood run. Each and every single episode of the series had it (except for, randomly and inexplicably, episode 21 of the FUNi/Saban/Ocean dub in which Nappa kills Piccolo).

I suppose it's most accurate to just refer to it as the Canadian version of "Rock the Dragon." The only times the American version of "Rock the Dragon" ever aired in Canada were the aforementioned episode 21 (every time that particular episode would air in reruns), the eventual airings of the edited TV versions of the first 3 FUNi/Pioneer movies in late 2001, and bizarrely, when episode 1 was re-aired for YTV's 20th Anniversary in 2008.
That's so weird to think about. I didn't know Canada had it's own opening for the early Ocean dub.
Then again, I remember the in-house FUNI dub still using Rock the Dragon, even though it still very clearly had the Ocean cast in the opening, though I believe that was only on Toonami while the DVDs had a really awful opening. Although, the really bad FUNI opening may have just been added around the time season 4 started, so I wouldn't quote me on everything.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:49 pm

Iirc didn’t Toonami always remove the openings for the shows they aired?

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:11 pm

Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote:That theme song isn't specific to the Westwood dub. It actually predates it, although it was indeed used for it as well.

Rather, it is the opening theme that the series had in Canada throughout the entirety of its run, regardless of at which point in the series it was, or who the cast was. It was there right from the early FUNi/Saban/Ocean days, right through FUNi's in-house recast and into the Westwood run. Each and every single episode of the series had it (except for, randomly and inexplicably, episode 21 of the FUNi/Saban/Ocean dub in which Nappa kills Piccolo).

I suppose it's most accurate to just refer to it as the Canadian version of "Rock the Dragon." The only times the American version of "Rock the Dragon" ever aired in Canada were the aforementioned episode 21 (every time that particular episode would air in reruns), the eventual airings of the edited TV versions of the first 3 FUNi/Pioneer movies in late 2001, and bizarrely, when episode 1 was re-aired for YTV's 20th Anniversary in 2008.
Wow, didn't know that! Man, I'd love to know what legal loophole made it possible/necessary for two different openings depending on the country.
MasenkoHA wrote:Iirc didn’t Toonami always remove the openings for the shows they aired?
For the afternoon showings, yes. For the midnight "uncut run," the shows were aired uncut, full openings and closings included. So, if you tuned in to DBZ in the afternoon Toonami airing during, let's say, the "Season 3" era, then you saw this. If you were tuning in to DBZ at the 12:30 Toonami airing, you saw "Rock the Dragon."
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 90sDBZ » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:32 pm

I remember the UK Broadcast using Rock the Dragon for the earlier airings of Seasons 1-3, Faulconer's intro for the Garlic Jr and Trunks sagas, then the Canadian opening for the Westwood episodes. Then for some strange reason they started using the Canadian opening for seasons 1-3 instead of Rock the Dragon, so we essentially had that for the entire series during the later re-runs, with the exception of the Garlic Jr and Trunks sagas which retained Faulconer's opening.

Then there was another weird situation where we got a different intro/ending to Canada for Blue Water GT, but they would occasionally slip up and air both the UK and Canadian intro one after the other, and the same with the endings too.

In the case of Rock the Dragon I'm guessing there was some sort of licensing or royalties issue going on.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Kakacarrottop » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:14 am

90sDBZ wrote:In the case of Rock the Dragon I'm guessing there was some sort of licensing or royalties issue going on.
Whoever produced the Westwood dub was competing against Funimation at the time, so it makes sense they wouldn't want to give Funimation free money by using Rock the Dragon. I also theorize that the Saban logo never appeared in the credits after the 1996/1997 syndication airing so Funimation wouldn't have to keep paying them royalties for that jingle that comes with the logo.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TheQuazz » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:45 am

Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote:
TheBlackPaladin wrote:Just checked that website out for the first time. Interesting samples...I was also surprised to find the highest-quality version I've ever heard of the Westwood version of "Rock the Dragon."
That theme song isn't specific to the Westwood dub. It actually predates it, although it was indeed used for it as well.

Rather, it is the opening theme that the series had in Canada throughout the entirety of its run, regardless of at which point in the series it was, or who the cast was. It was there right from the early FUNi/Saban/Ocean days, right through FUNi's in-house recast and into the Westwood run. Each and every single episode of the series had it (except for, randomly and inexplicably, episode 21 of the FUNi/Saban/Ocean dub in which Nappa kills Piccolo).

I suppose it's most accurate to just refer to it as the Canadian version of "Rock the Dragon." The only times the American version of "Rock the Dragon" ever aired in Canada were the aforementioned episode 21 (every time that particular episode would air in reruns), the eventual airings of the edited TV versions of the first 3 FUNi/Pioneer movies in late 2001, and bizarrely, when episode 1 was re-aired for YTV's 20th Anniversary in 2008.
If this was the case, then why was this opening composed by the same people that would later provide the recycled score for the AB Groupe/Westwood seasons of Z? Some weird coincidence? Not that I doubt you, it's more like I'm just genuinely curious.
90sDBZ wrote: Then there was another weird situation where we got a different intro/ending to Canada for Blue Water GT, but they would occasionally slip up and air both the UK and Canadian intro one after the other, and the same with the endings too.
That's interesting, I know that the UK and Canada got different openings and endings for Blue Water Dragon Ball, but I didn't know the same thing happened with GT. What was the alternate opening like?

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:17 am

TheQuazz wrote:
90sDBZ wrote: Then there was another weird situation where we got a different intro/ending to Canada for Blue Water GT, but they would occasionally slip up and air both the UK and Canadian intro one after the other, and the same with the endings too.
That's interesting, I know that the UK and Canada got different openings and endings for Blue Water Dragon Ball, but I didn't know the same thing happened with GT. What was the alternate opening like?
Sorry my bad. I meant Blue Water DB.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by MistaL » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:13 pm

We got the Japanese OP for the Canadian airing of Blue Water GT iirc, yeah?

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:31 pm

MistaL wrote:We got the Japanese OP for the Canadian airing of Blue Water GT iirc, yeah?
Mmmm...kinda. You got a shortened, English-dubbed version of the Japanese OP, and the lyrics bore no resemblance to the original (then again, one could argue this is a good change, as the original lyrics had nothing to do with Dragon Ball). But hey, at least it used the original instrumental track, which is something that even FUNimation didn't do in their eventual dub of the song.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:37 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote:
MistaL wrote:We got the Japanese OP for the Canadian airing of Blue Water GT iirc, yeah?
Mmmm...kinda. You got a shortened, English-dubbed version of the Japanese OP, and the lyrics bore no resemblance to the original (then again, one could argue this is a good change, as the original lyrics had nothing to do with Dragon Ball). But hey, at least it used the original instrumental track, which is something that even FUNimation didn't do in their eventual dub of the song.
I agree that was a change for the better. I'm not a big fan of Blue Water GT but that opening was actually pretty damn good. They took a corny love song and turned it into a catchy tune about the adventure Goku and co. were having in space. I also liked their instrumental of the ending theme.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Dark Vegeta-Sama » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:46 pm

TheQuazz wrote:
Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote:
TheBlackPaladin wrote:Just checked that website out for the first time. Interesting samples...I was also surprised to find the highest-quality version I've ever heard of the Westwood version of "Rock the Dragon."
That theme song isn't specific to the Westwood dub. It actually predates it, although it was indeed used for it as well.

Rather, it is the opening theme that the series had in Canada throughout the entirety of its run, regardless of at which point in the series it was, or who the cast was. It was there right from the early FUNi/Saban/Ocean days, right through FUNi's in-house recast and into the Westwood run. Each and every single episode of the series had it (except for, randomly and inexplicably, episode 21 of the FUNi/Saban/Ocean dub in which Nappa kills Piccolo).

I suppose it's most accurate to just refer to it as the Canadian version of "Rock the Dragon." The only times the American version of "Rock the Dragon" ever aired in Canada were the aforementioned episode 21 (every time that particular episode would air in reruns), the eventual airings of the edited TV versions of the first 3 FUNi/Pioneer movies in late 2001, and bizarrely, when episode 1 was re-aired for YTV's 20th Anniversary in 2008.
If this was the case, then why was this opening composed by the same people that would later provide the recycled score for the AB Groupe/Westwood seasons of Z? Some weird coincidence? Not that I doubt you, it's more like I'm just genuinely curious.
There are some things that fans will probably never know. Whatever legal loophole allowed Westwood to do their own alternate dub after the FUNimation season 3 recast will likely never be revealed. After all these years, even the actors themselves like Brian Drummond and Peter Kelamis have said they don't know.

Don Brown said in a telephone interview conducted with one of the UKDB guys in December 2002 (about a week after he went in to record the final four episodes of DBZ) that he'd initially been told by producers that international audiences weren't happy with FUNimation's recast and that they wanted the original cast back. I have no reason to doubt what he said, but we'll likely never know for sure.

That said, when production was somehow allowed to return to Vancouver, it stands to reason that there would've been an effort to bring back as many people involved with the first two seasons of the FUNi/Ocean dub as possible. So yeah, it could just be a coincidence, but it's also not much of a stretch to think that Vancouver-based musical talent were also involved in some capacity, even if it involved recycling scores from other shows as a cost-cutting measure. There are also the weird and ever-present "Canadian Content" laws to keep in mind as a possible answer.

It doesn't really seem like that big a mystery, at any rate. The plethora of tapes I have of the early seasons 1 and 2 airings of the show on YTV in the late 1990s all have that alternate Canadian version of "Rock the Dragon" playing before the show. Any Canadian fan old enough to have watched the show back then will tell you the same. We always had that same opening theme, even before the Westwood dub was produced.

Also, from what was dug up by the UKDB guys back in the early 2000s, AB Groupe really didn't have very much to do with Westwood's DBZ dub. They just oversaw the European distribution of the show. The Westwood episodes that aired in Canada did have different closing credits than the earlier FUNimation episodes, and AB Groupe wasn't mentioned at all (whereas they were credited in the European airings). The most that AB Groupe actively did was provide the video tracks for the last 4 episodes of DBZ because FUNi hadn't dubbed those episodes yet when the Vancouver cast went in to record them at the end of 2002. Later on, they would also provide the video tracks that Blue Water used for DB and DBGT (as they were likely a cheaper alternative to getting the video tracks from FUNi at that point). Prior to that, however, people on the online community at the time who were much more dedicated than I into finding info on the Westwood dub determined that AB Groupe didn't oversee any of the actual production side of things in Vancouver.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by MistaL » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:52 pm

90sDBZ wrote:
TheBlackPaladin wrote:
MistaL wrote:We got the Japanese OP for the Canadian airing of Blue Water GT iirc, yeah?
Mmmm...kinda. You got a shortened, English-dubbed version of the Japanese OP, and the lyrics bore no resemblance to the original (then again, one could argue this is a good change, as the original lyrics had nothing to do with Dragon Ball). But hey, at least it used the original instrumental track, which is something that even FUNimation didn't do in their eventual dub of the song.
I agree that was a change for the better. I'm not a big fan of Blue Water GT but that opening was actually pretty damn good. They took a corny love song and turned it into a catchy tune about the adventure Goku and co. were having in space. I also liked their instrumental of the ending theme.
Huh. I swore I heard somewhere that in Canada we got the Japanese OP while the English version of it was only used for the UK airing. I was really young when Dragon Ball was still airing in Canada so unfortunately I can't really remember it at all, and all the episode recordings online are from the UK broadcast.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Dark Vegeta-Sama » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:55 pm

MistaL wrote:
90sDBZ wrote:
TheBlackPaladin wrote:
Mmmm...kinda. You got a shortened, English-dubbed version of the Japanese OP, and the lyrics bore no resemblance to the original (then again, one could argue this is a good change, as the original lyrics had nothing to do with Dragon Ball). But hey, at least it used the original instrumental track, which is something that even FUNimation didn't do in their eventual dub of the song.
I agree that was a change for the better. I'm not a big fan of Blue Water GT but that opening was actually pretty damn good. They took a corny love song and turned it into a catchy tune about the adventure Goku and co. were having in space. I also liked their instrumental of the ending theme.
Huh. I swore I heard somewhere that in Canada we got the Japanese OP while the English version of it was only used for the UK airing. I was really young when Dragon Ball was still airing in Canada so unfortunately I can't really remember it at all, and all the episode recordings online are from the UK broadcast.
Yeah, we got the English opening theme in Canada. While YTV did air Japanese openings for other shows like Gundam Wing, none of the Dragonball series ever had Japanese openings aired here.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Attitudefan » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:58 pm

Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote:That theme song isn't specific to the Westwood dub. It actually predates it, although it was indeed used for it as well.

Rather, it is the opening theme that the series had in Canada throughout the entirety of its run, regardless of at which point in the series it was, or who the cast was. It was there right from the early FUNi/Saban/Ocean days, right through FUNi's in-house recast and into the Westwood run. Each and every single episode of the series had it (except for, randomly and inexplicably, episode 21 of the FUNi/Saban/Ocean dub in which Nappa kills Piccolo).

I suppose it's most accurate to just refer to it as the Canadian version of "Rock the Dragon." The only times the American version of "Rock the Dragon" ever aired in Canada were the aforementioned episode 21 (every time that particular episode would air in reruns), the eventual airings of the edited TV versions of the first 3 FUNi/Pioneer movies in late 2001, and bizarrely, when episode 1 was re-aired for YTV's 20th Anniversary in 2008.
Yup, everyone here knows Dragon, Dragon Ball theme but not so much Rock the Dragon. As a kid, when Rock the Dragon played rarely in the opening but did sometimes over the typical Canadian version (I didn't realize it was for just that one episode so that's new info to me). As a kid, I tried to record Rock the Dragon but the Canadian version would always prevail :lol: Rock the Dragon--when it did play oh so rarely--just blew my mind haha!

But yes, older Canadians know the "alternate" version more than Rock the Dragon.

So the alternate opening was probably used to satisfy Cancon laws.
Yeah, we got the English opening theme in Canada. While YTV did air Japanese openings for other shows like Gundam Wing, none of the Dragonball series ever had Japanese openings aired here.
That's also true. Not sure why Gundam Wing got away with that.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:07 pm

MistaL wrote:Huh. I swore I heard somewhere that in Canada we got the Japanese OP while the English version of it was only used for the UK airing. I was really young when Dragon Ball was still airing in Canada so unfortunately I can't really remember it at all, and all the episode recordings online are from the UK broadcast.
Well, I can't say for certain, but I have a guess as to why you might think that. As in the original Japanese version of the show, the Blue Water dub of GT had "Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku" playing--in Japanese--in the final moments of the last episode. I remember reading somewhere that the Canadian and UK broadcasts differed in that one had the whole song, whereas the other had a significantly shortened version. I forget which broadcast had which version, though.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:14 pm

Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote:
TheQuazz wrote:
Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote:
That theme song isn't specific to the Westwood dub. It actually predates it, although it was indeed used for it as well.

Rather, it is the opening theme that the series had in Canada throughout the entirety of its run, regardless of at which point in the series it was, or who the cast was. It was there right from the early FUNi/Saban/Ocean days, right through FUNi's in-house recast and into the Westwood run. Each and every single episode of the series had it (except for, randomly and inexplicably, episode 21 of the FUNi/Saban/Ocean dub in which Nappa kills Piccolo).

I suppose it's most accurate to just refer to it as the Canadian version of "Rock the Dragon." The only times the American version of "Rock the Dragon" ever aired in Canada were the aforementioned episode 21 (every time that particular episode would air in reruns), the eventual airings of the edited TV versions of the first 3 FUNi/Pioneer movies in late 2001, and bizarrely, when episode 1 was re-aired for YTV's 20th Anniversary in 2008.
If this was the case, then why was this opening composed by the same people that would later provide the recycled score for the AB Groupe/Westwood seasons of Z? Some weird coincidence? Not that I doubt you, it's more like I'm just genuinely curious.
There are some things that fans will probably never know. Whatever legal loophole allowed Westwood to do their own alternate dub after the FUNimation season 3 recast will likely never be revealed. After all these years, even the actors themselves like Brian Drummond and Peter Kelamis have said they don't know.

Don Brown said in a telephone interview conducted with one of the UKDB guys in December 2002 (about a week after he went in to record the final four episodes of DBZ) that he'd initially been told by producers that international audiences weren't happy with FUNimation's recast and that they wanted the original cast back. I have no reason to doubt what he said, but we'll likely never know for sure.

That said, when production was somehow allowed to return to Vancouver, it stands to reason that there would've been an effort to bring back as many people involved with the first two seasons of the FUNi/Ocean dub as possible. So yeah, it could just be a coincidence, but it's also not much of a stretch to think that Vancouver-based musical talent were also involved in some capacity, even if it involved recycling scores from other shows as a cost-cutting measure. There are also the weird and ever-present "Canadian Content" laws to keep in mind as a possible answer.

It doesn't really seem like that big a mystery, at any rate. The plethora of tapes I have of the early seasons 1 and 2 airings of the show on YTV in the late 1990s all have that alternate Canadian version of "Rock the Dragon" playing before the show. Any Canadian fan old enough to have watched the show back then will tell you the same. We always had that same opening theme, even before the Westwood dub was produced.

Also, from what was dug up by the UKDB guys back in the early 2000s, AB Groupe really didn't have very much to do with Westwood's DBZ dub. They just oversaw the European distribution of the show. The Westwood episodes that aired in Canada did have different closing credits than the earlier FUNimation episodes, and AB Groupe wasn't mentioned at all (whereas they were credited in the European airings). The most that AB Groupe actively did was provide the video tracks for the last 4 episodes of DBZ because FUNi hadn't dubbed those episodes yet when the Vancouver cast went in to record them at the end of 2002. Later on, they would also provide the video tracks that Blue Water used for DB and DBGT (as they were likely a cheaper alternative to getting the video tracks from FUNi at that point). Prior to that, however, people on the online community at the time who were much more dedicated than I into finding info on the Westwood dub determined that AB Groupe didn't oversee any of the actual production side of things in Vancouver.
That's interesting stuff. It's not surprising that AB Groupe didn't directly supervise that dub being a French company and all. I've always believed that they are the reason it's so rushed though, given that they were the company distributing it to the networks and were likely demanding it be dubbed at a fast pace. It's also likely they were the ones providing the budget for it.

As for why it was made there's no way to know for sure, but there was an old interview on this site with Ian James Corlett who speculated it was "an anomaly of rights".

There's also another weird thing about the situation. The fact that Canada didn't switch to it until the Cell Games while the UK, Ireland, and Holland got it at the Android saga which sort of puts the Canadian content theory in doubt. And the Westwood dub contained extra cuts when it aired in the UK but I've seen some Canadian fans claim it didn't for them. Furermore when the UK got the Funimation dubbed Fusion saga on the air for a couple of months it aired without any extra cuts but later when the Westwood version aired it had the extra cuts.

As confusing as all that is, even in this day and age Bang Zoom Super existed for no obvious reason.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Dark Vegeta-Sama » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:10 pm

Attitudefan wrote:
Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote:That theme song isn't specific to the Westwood dub. It actually predates it, although it was indeed used for it as well.

Rather, it is the opening theme that the series had in Canada throughout the entirety of its run, regardless of at which point in the series it was, or who the cast was. It was there right from the early FUNi/Saban/Ocean days, right through FUNi's in-house recast and into the Westwood run. Each and every single episode of the series had it (except for, randomly and inexplicably, episode 21 of the FUNi/Saban/Ocean dub in which Nappa kills Piccolo).

I suppose it's most accurate to just refer to it as the Canadian version of "Rock the Dragon." The only times the American version of "Rock the Dragon" ever aired in Canada were the aforementioned episode 21 (every time that particular episode would air in reruns), the eventual airings of the edited TV versions of the first 3 FUNi/Pioneer movies in late 2001, and bizarrely, when episode 1 was re-aired for YTV's 20th Anniversary in 2008.
Yup, everyone here knows Dragon, Dragon Ball theme but not so much Rock the Dragon. As a kid, when Rock the Dragon played rarely in the opening but did sometimes over the typical Canadian version (I didn't realize it was for just that one episode so that's new info to me). As a kid, I tried to record Rock the Dragon but the Canadian version would always prevail :lol: Rock the Dragon--when it did play oh so rarely--just blew my mind haha!

But yes, older Canadians know the "alternate" version more than Rock the Dragon.

So the alternate opening was probably used to satisfy Cancon laws.
Yeah, it was pretty mind-blowing. Strange as it may seem to non-Canadians, the American version of "Rock the Dragon" was, for lack of a better term, foreign to us. On the extremely rare occasion when it would air, it was a pretty awesome alternative to what we were typically getting. It's certainly more exciting and a lot catchier.

When I first started researching the show online and found some of the earlier websites of the time like Chris Psaros' DBZ Uncensored, I found it odd that the older online fandom would bash "Rock the Dragon" constantly. Yeah, I get it, it's not the Japanese opening, but for an American kid in the late '90s, "Rock the Dragon" would've been a pretty cool intro.

Perhaps if American fans had to endure the Canadian theme for all those years instead, they would've appreciated "Rock the Dragon" more by comparison. :lol:
90sDBZ wrote:That's interesting stuff. It's not surprising that AB Groupe didn't directly supervise that dub being a French company and all. I've always believed that they are the reason it's so rushed though, given that they were the company distributing it to the networks and were likely demanding it be dubbed at a fast pace. It's also likely they were the ones providing the budget for it.

As for why it was made there's no way to know for sure, but there was an old interview on this site with Ian James Corlett who speculated it was "an anomaly of rights".

There's also another weird thing about the situation. The fact that Canada didn't switch to it until the Cell Games while the UK, Ireland, and Holland got it at the Android saga which sort of puts the Canadian content theory in doubt. And the Westwood dub contained extra cuts when it aired in the UK but I've seen some Canadian fans claim it didn't for them. Furermore when the UK got the Funimation dubbed Fusion saga on the air for a couple of months it aired without any extra cuts but later when the Westwood version aired it had the extra cuts.

As confusing as all that is, even in this day and age Bang Zoom Super existed for no obvious reason.
I'm suggesting the Canadian Content law as a possible reason for why there was ever a Canadian theme song made for the series to begin with. The actual production of the Westwood dub, which came later, was a separate matter.

It is rather unfortunate that Canada never aired the earlier portion of the Westwood dub, but an obvious reason is that by the time the Westwood dub entered production, Canada had already aired those early Android/Cell episodes, and YTV may not have had the appetite to re-purchase those episodes all over again from another distributor. However, YTV's relationship with FUNimation supposedly broke down and the Westwood dub was then available as a cheaper alternative, or at least that's what was discussed online at the time. It is true that FUNi did not provide YTV with all of season 4 (missing the last 12 episodes), so it certainly seems like a possibility. FUNimation's season 4 consisted of episodes 103-179, ending with the episode where Trunks returns to the future and finally destroys the Androids, but YTV was only given episodes 103-167 even though they presumably would've paid for the entire season. Episode 168, which is right in the middle of the Cell Games, is where YTV picked up the Westwood dub after we'd had to endure several months of reruns.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:04 pm

The CRTC doesn't value a show any higher as Cancon if it uses replacement music than something with its original score. The Dragon Ball shows have the same 50% time credit as InuYasha, which retained its Japanese intro/outro music and BGM.

I've mentioned this before, but Corus Entertainment (owners of YTV, Teletoon and a whole host of other Canadian channels) did try to lobby the CRTC to increase the Cancon percentage of shows that used replacement scores. However, the CRTC declined the request, feeling it would undervalue fully domestic productions by having dubs count that much.
Corus noted that certain third-language foreign programs require more than just dubbing and have to be adapted, which involves rewriting the script as well as redoing voices, sound tracks and sound effects. Corus stated that such adaptation requires a substantial number of Canadian resources, and that the time credit should thus be increased from 50% to 75% of the program time.
The Commission also does not favour Corus’s proposal to increase the time credit awarded to foreign animated third-language programs dubbed in Canadian from 50% to 75%. While the proposed time credit takes into account the Canadian resources involved dubbing foreign animated programs, it is too close to the time credit for Canadian programs.
https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2010/2010-905.htm

Do note that this was in 2010, which may have had an impact on Kai, should the dub have been produced with the expectation that Corus would be successful in their petition. Though, admittedly the decision would've been pretty early on in the dub's production.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:20 pm

Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote: .

I'm suggesting the Canadian Content law as a possible reason for why there was ever a Canadian theme song made for the series to begin with. The actual production of the Westwood dub, which came later, was a separate matter..
Eh? Wouldn’t the fact that they used Canadian voice actors be sufficient enough to meet Cancon laws?

I don’t fully understand Cancon but as best as I could tell it just requires broadcasters air a certain amount of work that had contributions from Canadians be it writing, producing, performing, directing. Now that I think about it wouldn’t the in-house Funi dub also meet Cancon laws since Ward Perry and Terry Klassen were credited as writers?

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Danfun64 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:27 pm

Dark Vegeta-Sama wrote:The most that AB Groupe actively did was provide the video tracks for the last 4 episodes of DBZ because FUNi hadn't dubbed those episodes yet when the Vancouver cast went in to record them at the end of 2002.
The odd thing is, that while those final Westwood DBZ episodes did use the AB Groupe footage, the scripts of those episodes were just as based on the Funi scripts as the rest of the Westwood run. I don't know if Funi "hadn't dubbed those episodes yet" or not, but the Funi scripts of those episodes had to be at least close to completion at that point.
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