Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

[Gonstead]

Ahh, I remember back in the Westwood dub they had replaced practically 99.9% of the original SFX with their own stock sound effects for the episodes. They did the same with the 3 movies as well if I'm not mistaken.

Maybe this is another factor to consider because of how long the episodes are taking and if it's airing on TV, it would probably be hit by that Canadian content law.

[RazorX]

The ideal situation as far as music goes would be to get Tom Keenlyside, John Mitchell and David Iris to compose new music in the style they did for DBZ, as well as bringing in some of the best pieces used in DBZ. If Ocean did that, their version would put both the Japanese and Fuinimation versions to shame.

Original Ocean Dragon Ball Z music piece

That is one of my favourite music pieces to have ever been used in DBZ out of any version and is one of the reasons why I want Keenlyside et al to be brought back for DB Kai.

I felt (and still feel) really immersed into the Dragon Ball universe with Ocean's dub combined with their score and it even allowed me to appreciate the characters a lot more, and all of their traits.

If a replacement score can achieve that, then it has done its job well. I agree with what you said for the Keenlyside et al score (Android-Kid Buu).

That was rather a sales point than a purpose.

That was one of Kai's purposes and it was also a very good point to use in its marketing.

I know that making a dub score is regarded as a stupid idea in the current era, but to me, the Kikuchi-Kai mix is so terrible that I even prefer a dub score over it

The way I see it, because of how badly placed the Kikuchi replacement score is, a new replacement score for international dubs of Kai should be compulsory. I don't know why international dubs (except maybe Ocean, we'll see) haven't taken the initiative to produce a replacement score. They should know that even people who like Kikuchi (myself included) get fed up with the same old themes overused in the episodes.

*Edit: Here are three of them:
http://www.4shared.com/mp3/Afio5AGE/westwood01.html
http://www.4shared.com/mp3/VTq_jSSY/westwood02.html
http://www.4shared.com/mp3/ilO49cRF/westwood03.html

As well as being an original composition; the first one was only ever used in that particular Goku vs Kid Buu scene, which leads me to believe it was composed specifically for that scene. It's a decent battle theme which I would've liked to hear utilised more often but there you have it.

[Gonstead]

It's the terrible Kikuchi placement which makes me turn away from re-watching Kai altogether.

Accurate dub or not, I am not listening to the same 3 - 4 tracks played over and over again!

[batistabus]

The only music replacement I would want to see would be a better placement of the Kikuchi pieces.

Okay, here's the thing. They have no business tampering with the show that much. They have no reason to create a replacement score. FUNimation has already proven that American viewers will accept the Japanese tracks just fine, so I don't see why the Canadian public would be any different.

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

Okay, here's the thing. They have no business tampering with the show that much.

Toei already tampered with the show 'that much' by replacing all of the Yamamoto music, even though a large chunk of it probably didn't infringe on other copyrights.

They have no reason to create a replacement score.

They do when the new placement of the Kikuchi score is terrible.

FUNimation has already proven that American viewers will accept the Japanese tracks just fine, so I don't see why the Canadian public would be any different.

The Yamamoto score was a nice-sounding contemporary score. There was never any reason for American viewers to have any problem with it, nor did it give FUNimation any reason to replace it as they had in their previous dubs of Dragonball Z and Dragonball GT.

And sure, you might think that American viewers are equally accepting of the replacement Kikuchi score now that it is airing on television all the time. However, is there really any way to verify that they're enjoying it as much? You'd have to look at the ratings of the show before and after the change in music to really know if there's been a difference. Otherwise, your claim that American audiences are loving the Kikuchi score just as much as Japanese fans did 20 years ago is nothing more than hopeful optimism.

Here's some food for though: When FUNimation's Dragonball Z Kai Volumes 1-4 were still in stock and readily available up until a few months ago, the prices of Volumes 5 and 6 were consistently lower than the previous 4. This might actually indicate that sales fell to some degree with the onset of the replacement score in Volume 5 onward.

[Super Sayian Prime]

You know, they (as in whomever is paying for this dub) could just not want to pay Kikuchi any music licensing money because this dub will be available as a lower cost English version. Which would make a lot more sense given that I'm fairly certain that music production plays no role in Cancon quotas.

[penguintruth]

I think a lot of you are overstating the poor placement of Kikuchi music. Many episodes have quite good music placement. It really isn't so bad as to prefer some Canadian-made replacement music. I feel more comfortable with Kikuchi, since that's at least it's franchise-related.

[Super Sayian Prime]

I think a lot of you are overstating the poor placement of Kikuchi music. Many episodes have quite good music placement. It really isn't so bad as to prefer some Canadian-made replacement music. I feel more comfortable with Kikuchi, since that's at least it's franchise-related.

If said music is being composed for Kai how would it not be franchise-related? It wouldn't have a history given it's a new product, but Kikuchi didn't have a history with Dragon Ball until Z started either.

[AgitoZ]

If said music is being composed for Kai how would it not be franchise-related? It wouldn't have a history given it's a new product, but Kikuchi didn't have a history with Dragon Ball until Z started either.

Cause there is already two scores for Kai both done from the original production, not some score done for one stray off dub meant to replace said scores.

Also, Mr. Kikuchi has been involved with Dragon Ball since the original series. Hell, he did all of Dr. Slump.

[batistabus]

Okay, here's the thing. They have no business tampering with the show that much.

Toei already tampered with the show 'that much' by replacing all of the Yamamoto music, even though a large chunk of it probably didn't infringe on other copyrights.

It's Toei's job to tamper with the show...they produced it and put the whole thing together. Anyone else who gets a hold of it (in another language) only needs to translate it and dub it. As far as I'm concerned, altering the music of the show is overstepping creative boundaries. If Avatar the Last Airbender got a replacement score overseas, and was replaced by some type of rock music, it just wouldn't be the same show.

They do when the new placement of the Kikuchi score is terrible.

Kai placement ain't even that bad. It's especially not bad enough to warrant an entire replacement score. If they have that much of a problem with it, they they can try to rearrange the track in a way more faithful to Z. Kikuchi is an award-nominated composer. If they get someone who can compete with that, then we'll talk.

Here's some food for though: When FUNimation's Dragonball Z Kai Volumes 1-4 were still in stock and readily available up until a few months ago, the prices of Volumes 5 and 6 were consistently lower than the previous 4. This might actually indicate that sales fell to some degree with the onset of the replacement score in Volume 5 onward.

I sincerely doubt this has anything to do with fans disliking the Kikuchi score. How do I know that fans don't care? I can't speak for all fans, bu I've introduced at least 10 friends to Dragon Ball through Kai, and while marathoning the sets, nobody mentioned anything about the change of music. Maybe they didn't notice it, maybe they thought it just changed with the Arc, but there was never a complaint. I can't speak for everyone, but the casual fan likely just doesn't notice or care. Decreases in sales are likely more a result of a decrease in promotion by FUNimation, the change in plot, or the general availability of the volumes. At least where I live, I haven't seen anything past Volume 3. Again, this is just from personal experience and observation, but I'm sure it's not just contained to my area.

Edit: And by fans, I mean newcomers to the series. I'm assuming that already long-time fans of the series would at least check in for curiosity's sake, and that this version of the series will not get a home release. If the series didn't get such a reboot in the first place, the hard-cores probably wouldn't even bother, so I'm not sure if it's fair to count them. Sure, long-time fans may have lost interest because of the score change (leading to a decrease in sales), but that didn't directly affect the TV viewing audience. It's not the fact that the score was bad, its more along the lines of Kai being a half-assed project.

[andrewtuell1991]

So so far the only things we know about the voice acting-wise are:

*Kirby Morrow's been rejected for Son Goku
*Lee Tockar's been confirmed for Freeza
*and Scott McNeil been confirmed for Piccolo, Jheese and Dr. Brief.

Hopefully we'll learn more by at least the end of January but who knows, I'm liking what I see already. Kirby Morrow was a horrible miscast for Goku. I'm personally rooting for Peter Kelamis and I seriously hope Ian Corlett doesn't get handed the role; I hated his take on Goku.

Lee Tockar for Freeza... I'll just have wait to see about this one. As for McNeil's confirmed role, Piccolo was just obvious but hopefully he can tone down the demonic part. I've never heard his take on Dr. Brief before because of the 123-291 dub's obscurity (I live in the US). If anyone knows of a clip that'd be helpful. And for Jheese... I seriously was hoping this would be one of the roles to get replaced. I hated his Brummie accent almost as much as Sabat's Australian accent but if can come up with a new voice that'd be okay, but I'm still reluctant on this one.

[penguintruth]

I hope Terry Klassen won't be Roshi again. He was horrible in the role.

[Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu]

I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this, but since it's an ongoing Ocean-dub related topic I think it would make sense
to just throw it in here instead of starting a new thread just for this one thing (despite it not being directly related to Kai).

It's an interview with Peter Kelamis, that I came across the other day. In Part 3 of the interview he talks about anime and specifically about his time playing Goku, and the reception of the fans when he took over the role from Ian Corlett.

(Again, there's no mention of Kai)

Aaaand here you go! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH6gWsjJqJc

[Attitudefan]

This is why he is the best Son! He is not a an air head and he is awesome! I have EVEN MORE respect for him

[Super Sayian Prime]

If said music is being composed for Kai how would it not be franchise-related? It wouldn't have a history given it's a new product, but Kikuchi didn't have a history with Dragon Ball until Z started either.

Cause there is already two scores for Kai both done from the original production, not some score done for one stray off dub meant to replace said scores.

Also, Mr. Kikuchi has been involved with Dragon Ball since the original series. Hell, he did all of Dr. Slump.

Except one of those scores wasn't made for Kai, it was made for Z. What's the issue with just another score? Especially if said score would be a fully consistent one actually produced for Kai?

[KingofWisdom]

I'd prefer the Kikuchi score over a replacement as well. No matter how good the composer is, there's a very good chance that there will be music playing in every single scene. I'm also unsure of McNeil getting to play Jeice again. I just don't want the character to have a random foreign accent (especially if the actor playing him doesn't have one).

[dagame10k]

I'd prefer the Kikuchi score over a replacement as well. No matter how good the composer is, there's a very good chance that there will be music playing in every single scene. I'm also unsure of McNeil getting to play Jeice again. I just don't want the character to have a random foreign accent (especially if the actor playing him doesn't have one).

If the Toei replacement score with Kikuchi music is as limited in material, and as poorly thought out as people say it is, I wouldn't mind seeing someone else getting a crack at producing out an alternative. Though if it's going to be anyone, is going to be between Tom Keenlyside, John Mitchell and David Iris(if they still have working relationship with Ocean), and if they get another shot, they'd best stay from creating new pieces that remotely sound like the horrible majority of pieces in their Westwood Z material if they are to create a reasonable alternative.

Oh and in comparison to the FUNimation dub score for Z, the Westwood dub score actually contained silence, music wasn't playing all the time, and I don't see them not doing that if they also did Kai.

As for the use of accents, there is nothing wrong with it, it's no worse than every character universally understanding/speaking one language, there is nothing wrong with adding some dimension to the show.

[KingofWisdom]

But it's pretty inconsistent. If you think about it, most of the aliens learned English/Japanese not from Earth, so why is Jeice the only one with an accent?

Edit: I guess a better way to phrase that would be that if all these characters learned the same language in different parts of the universe, and if you believe Jeice's accent(s) adds depth to the show, then most of the aliens should logically have accents too. So clearly that wasn't part of the reasoning for Jeice's English voices.

[AgitoZ]

As for the use of accents, there is nothing wrong with it, it's no worse than every character universally understanding/speaking one language, there is nothing wrong with adding some dimension to the show.

How do accents add "dimension" to the show?

[TheBlackPaladin]

But it's pretty inconsistent. If you think about it, most of the aliens learned English/Japanese not from Earth, so why is Jeice the only one with an accent?

Well, I guess if you want a super-literal answer, because Barry Watson thought it sounded good.