Why do so many American fans hate Kai?

[CaBrPi]

I do not see how you can say that they got the rythm better in Kai. More often than not the lines, becuase of their accuracy, no longer sync up with mouth.

OK, I won't necessarily agree with the part about the mouthflaps but I must say Kai's dialogue has always felt a little stilted to me. It's not enough so that I dislike it immensely, but it could have used more adaptation IMO.

I still think that Z's dialogue is FAR more stilted and unnaturally-delivered though.

[Karrit]

KaiserNeko
Having never worked on an animated series, unlike yourself, I'll have to take your word for it bring more difficult using an already translated script than making up a new one, I'm not being sarcastic. Having met Sean Schemmel and hearing him and Sabat rip on the music yeah I have a hard time drinking the koolaid that these dudes are die hard purists as they think their acting in Kai better but the music and its placement are poor. Check out the stuff from Animazement where he talks about how they all made fun of the music during their dubbing of the upcoming boo arc

I told you: Just because the script is -translated- does not mean it's useable. You have to ADAPT it to match the lip-flaps while retaining flow, change certain idioms/in-jokes to match something more culturally accessible, account for rhythm, tone. As someone who has worked WITH people in the industry (and has also had to do his own adaptations of scripts to match scenes for amateur products) I can assure you it is a careful, painstaking process to get it done -right-. Considering how many people believe the original dub did not get it done right, it's possible to consider that, in fact, the original dubbing process might in fact have been easier; it was streamlined and thus filled with bad jokes and awkward lines.

As far as the music goes, are you talking about the music in the upcoming Boo arc? Because none of us have even HEARD the music for that. It very well could be bad! You don't know! No one here knows! And the music and placement LUKai post-Yamamoto has been a point of contention for EVERYONE, purists and non-purists alike, so I'm not sure what you're on about there.

I have to agree. I dubbed a short anime clip for my last project in college. it was harder than hell to do. I was dependent on subtitles because I used an unliscensed (at the time), undubbed Lupin Sansei anime. Not only do you want to translate accurately, you have to be able to understand original intent and the equivalent in your own language, and then take care to make sure the dialogue matches the mouthflaps. It took me an entire summer of planning and three weeks living in a Macintosh lab with Final Cut Pro do. I had an even more tedious job to do because there was only one audio track, which means I had to replace SFX lost when I removed the Japanese audio. The lip syncing was such a bitch for me. it wasn't perfect, but a lot of my syncing was dead on.

Anyway, I apologize for getting off topic, but I wanted to share I know where you are coming from.

[ABED]

I must say Kai's dialogue has always felt a little stilted to me

Any examples you can remember? Even if there's some stilted dialog, I don't recall a lot, certainly not as much as Z's, and it's certainly better dialog by at least a mile.

[andrewtuell1991]

To echo what penguintruth said, is the hatred of Kai that big? It has an 8.0 on tv.com, an 8.5 on imdb, and 3.7 stars out of 5 for the 1st part on amazon. It apparent did well on Nicktoons and obviously did well enough international to warrant the final arc being made. It had to have sold well to warrant a re-release. If you think Youtube is the place to go for popular and intelligent opinion you're sadly mistaken. It's making a mountain out of a molehill.

For the Americans who do hate Kai there's one of two reasons:

1. They see it for the waste of potential it was, being a butchered hackjob of a show that was already a hackjob. For advertising itself as being closer to the manga, yet started in the middle, cut out entire pages of manga at he beginning, and leaving in huge amounts of filler later on. Having a newly animated Opening/Ending/Eye catches and only a few reanimated scenes that stick out like sore thumb against the outdated 80s/90s animation.

2. Nostaglia blind and won't accept a version of Dragon Ball Z that doesn't have constantly blaring techno music, granny Freeza, valley girl Bulma, and can't-emote-to-save-her-life Gohan.

Look a lot of broken fanbases has it's share of fans that were introduced to the series through a warped bastardization and refuse to like any other version and can be an annoyance to the fans who like the series for what it is.

For TMNT we have the Fred Wolf series, the reigning king of in name only adaptation. Every time a new adaptation comes out we have the same annoying idiots going "HUR WHERE KRANG WHERE BEBOP N ROCKSTEADY DURRR". Pisses me off to no end. Their ignorant of the fact that their garbage series was not the origin of TMNT and that each adaptation only has to take cues from the Mirage comics and owe absolutely nothing to that abomination of animation.

For Sonic we have people who were introduced no through the games but instead one of the three DiC cartoon, specifically SatAM which again is an in name only bastardization. To this day we still have people whine for those annoying Freedom Fighter to be introduced to the games and for the lovable over-the-top Eggman to be turned into that boring generic Saturday morning cartoon villain known as Julian, despite them not fitting in the game's universe in any way.

Every fanbase has it's share of annoyances. Why let it get under your skin? The people BAWing on YouTube aren't hindering Kai's success so the best thing to do is just ignore them. Or flame them. Whatever you prefer.

[Hellspawn28]

IMDB is never the best place for Japanese movies and shows to be honest. Not many people watch these movies and shows. That's why the Dark Knight Rises is rated so high on the Top 250 list .

[dbzfan7]

Well nicktoons had great ratings wit Kai so they liked it. So it's not hated. Seems to me the hatred comes from the Nostalgia blinded Toonami fanboys. They can't accept anything that isn't what they watched.

[Hellspawn28]

Something that made a lot of money or has strong rating can still be hated by people. TMZ still has good ratings when a lot of people hate it.

[Selcier]

God. I love a good ole argument.

But seriously. My view will be biased because I love Kai just so much more.

I would assume that some people don't because:

-Occationally odd pacing. Sometimes it jumps ahead of itself since they took some of the filler out, even from the fights. Sometimes it lacks continuity.

-Possibly the wish that it would be perfect. Every so often, we get a new release with a promise that it is better and more wonderful than the last. Kai is made out to be the final form of the series. But there are flaws with it. High expectations can lead to disappointment.

-Music complaints. Everybody likes different music. Heck, I would be thrilled if Kai had the music from Inception or There Will Be Blood or Star Grek 2009. But it doesn't. And I'll have to get over my disappointment too.

[JEFFMAN219]

Because they're all on that nostalgia drug

[Dolciano]

It's for the nostalgia factor. Ironically, many seem to dislike Kai for getting rid of the fillers (the same fillers many seemed to have complained about when DBZ first aired; which gave Dragon Ball Z the nickname of Dragon-on Ball Z).

[dbzfan7]

I guess Philip J. Fry was right when he said people just want to watch the same thing over and over again, because unexpected stuff make them feel scared and stupid.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

To be blunt it's not what they saw on Toonami or whatever version they grew up with, I watched the end of the JP broadcast to the entire (Funimation/Ocean) DBZ run from 96-03. Maybe it doesn't bother me as I started watching it from the JP side but the music wasn't an issue for me anyways... It was always crap minus kikuchi's score.

Americans hate change, it's fact.

[Looneygamemaster]

Americans hate change, it's fact.

Everyone hates change, on average.

[Hellspawn28]

I guess Philip J. Fry was right when he said people just want to watch the same thing over and over again, because unexpected stuff make them feel scared and stupid.

Mr. Plinkett was right too. In his Indiana Jones 4 review, he was like "People stay in line to eat the same crap over and over again. They hate something new and different".

[Fizzer]

So I've just seen this again:



Ironically, fans of the Z dub really like this picture. Some of the best comments I've seen on it are:

"Kai is the same exact thing as Dragonball z just without the blood so the kids dont have to see it"

"I tried watching a kai episode. I just couldn't continue watching it after 5seconds into the show"

"They also changed the voice and script. LAAAMMMEEE!(XIII)"

"lol i hate those faggets XD"

[Ajay]

See my signature.

Ignorance is the key word.

A majority of the fanbase don't even understand the concept of Kai.

[TheGmGoken]

See my signature.

Ignorance is the key word.

A majority of the fanbase don't even understand the concept of Kai.

The majority of the fanbase thinks Funimation made DB and call themselves hardcore fans. A simple Google search would prove them wrong but they ignore it. I'm not talking about trolls, new fans, or causal fans. I'm talking people who say "I'm a hardcore DB fan" but don't know that DB has a manga, OTHER dubs, was made by Toei, and English dub(s) wasn't the original audio.

[Fizzer]

See my signature.

Ignorance is the key word.

A majority of the fanbase don't even understand the concept of Kai.

The majority of the fanbase thinks Funimation made DB and call themselves hardcore fans. A simple Google search would prove them wrong but they ignore it. I'm not talking about trolls, new fans, or causal fans. I'm talking people who say "I'm a hardcore DB fan" but don't know that DB has a manga, OTHER dubs, was made by Toei, and English dub(s) wasn't the original audio.

Those people also often think that the anime series were made in the order they aired in: Z, GT, DB.

[TheGmGoken]

See my signature.

Ignorance is the key word.

A majority of the fanbase don't even understand the concept of Kai.

The majority of the fanbase thinks Funimation made DB and call themselves hardcore fans. A simple Google search would prove them wrong but they ignore it. I'm not talking about trolls, new fans, or causal fans. I'm talking people who say "I'm a hardcore DB fan" but don't know that DB has a manga, OTHER dubs, was made by Toei, and English dub(s) wasn't the original audio.

Those people also often think that the anime series were made in the order they aired in: Z, GT, DB.

Which I laugh it. I'm sorry but if you're a hardcore fan...you should at least know the order. I''m not saying you should read the manage or even watch an accurate dub. But got damn there is GOOGLE. How the hell you don't know DB came first -_-.

[dbzfan7]

Anytime I see anyone complain about Chris Ayres and praise Lina Young, I want to violently hit something.