Funimation Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

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Funimation Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by JEFFMAN219 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:55 pm

Does anybody have any comparison images of the Japanese blu ray release of boo saga Kai and seasons 7, 8, and 9 of the Funimation Blu Ray release? And in your opinion does the boo saga of Kai look better then Funimation DBZ Blu Rays for the boo saga?
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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by Ajay » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:10 pm

I'm afraid I don't have screenshots to hand, but I can talk a little about the differences.

The Japanese Blu-ray release of Boo Kai is actually quite a bit different from the international Blu-rays (Final Chapters) in terms of video quality. An aggressive sharpening filter was applied to the image that left halos around the edges of things. I've simulated the effect here:

Image

Both releases are equally green-tinted and cropped, leaving the only differences down to episode counts and continuity edits. But if you're after Kai, you want an international release.

Funimation's Blu-ray release of Z is tinted a little too blue, leaving people looking quite ghostly in comparison to the unwell look everyone has in Kai. The aggressive DNR leaves the image looks overly watery, while also destroying the background art in places.

Both releases are supposed to be selectively cropped, but Funimation's set doesn't do the best of jobs, sadly. In many cases, you're still losing heads and chins. Here's an example:

Image

Frankly, neither release is any good. You'd have better results if you removed the green cast from the Boo set, as the overall remaster is significantly less destructive. At the same time, maybe you sit far away enough from your TV not to notice the flaws in Funi's release, or you don't care much for cropping -- their BDs might be best for you.

I honestly can't recommend one over the other. It's probably best to patient for the Funimation release of Kai if you're after that arc in decent enough quality. I can't exactly recommend Boo Kai as a product in Japanese, but the more accurate dub, again, may be worth it to you.

Hope that helps!
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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:56 pm

Okay so I have two examples here, JPN BD followed by French BD followed by FUNi Z BD and then finally French BDs Colour Corrected. (I might not have gotten the exact frames/shot but should be okay)

Example 1: [spoiler]JPN BD: Image
French BD: Image
FUNi Z BD: Image
French Corrected: Image[/spoiler]

Example 2: [spoiler]JPN BD: Image
French BD: Image
FUNi Z BD: Image
French Corrected: Image[/spoiler]

I hope I labelled everything correctly, but yeah Ajay is right the JPN Kai BD is different to the Int BD (though we only have France to go off of may they might be an anomaly we will find out in April).

Here is a third example I have that supposedly compares JPN to FUNiBD but I am not sure where I found them from:
[spoiler]JPN: Image
FUNi Z: Image[/spoiler]
Ajay wrote:At the same time, maybe you sit far away enough from your TV not to notice the flaws in Funi's release.!
Actually I do that when I watch these and they actually look great (heresy I know!) but when on my laptop like now they don't look so great.

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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by JEFFMAN219 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:11 am

Hmm judging from those screenshots seasons 7,8, and 9 of the funimation Blu Rays look a bit better then Kai the final chapters. Also is it me or does Kai 1.0 looks a lot better then Kai the final chapters?

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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by Metalwario64 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:02 am

JEFFMAN219 wrote:Hmm judging from those screenshots seasons 7,8, and 9 of the funimation Blu Rays look a bit better then Kai the final chapters. Also is it me or does Kai 1.0 looks a lot better then Kai the final chapters?
I disagree with your first statement. The colors are better (for the most part. The dark details are still worse), but the linework on the Blu-rays is very smudged and oily looking.

As for the second point, I definitely agree. The Q-Tec footage of Kai was much nicer than Toei's in-house Buu footage.
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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:16 am

JEFFMAN219 wrote:Hmm judging from those screenshots seasons 7,8, and 9 of the funimation Blu Rays look a bit better then Kai the final chapters. Also is it me or does Kai 1.0 looks a lot better then Kai the final chapters?
Funimation's only looks better because of the green tint over Boo Kai. That said, the green tint is pretty fucking signifigant! It's also practically uncorrectable. Bulma's hair, Piccolo's skin, and certain backgrounds just can't be fixed. I'd recommend Funimation's Z Blu-ray over Green Kai any day of the week, although both are mediocre, cheap, and quite frankly, embarrassing.

Yes, Kai 1.0 is signifigantly better, although I wouldn't quite call it good. The grain was successfully removed without totally destroying the image, the color correction (digital recolors aside) was superb. It's so far ahead of Boo Kai, to call them the same product is actually absurd.
Metalwario64 wrote:I disagree with your first statement. The colors are better (for the most part. The dark details are still worse), but the linework on the Blu-rays is very smudged and oily looking.
The dark detail and line-work in Funi's Blu-rays is pathetic, that's for sure. However, and this is where we get into worthless opinion territory, the detriment caused by the heavy green tint is so less watchable for me that I can (almost) excuse Funi's Blu-rays when comparing.
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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:53 am

I wonder which version of BD FUNi will release for Buu Kai, I hope Kaze was messing around for the French release I actually prefer the JPN BD of Buu Kai.

Anyway I would only recommend FUNi's BD for Z Buu over Buu Kai if like Jinzoningen MULE you can't stand the green tint at all, or don't care for a new improved English dub or prefer hearing the OG JPN Cast back in their Z prime. As previously stated if you sit not too close to the TV then the flaws of FUNi's BD's are pretty unnoticeable, just look at those FUNi Z BD shots on your mobile phone and you'll notice you can hardly see any of the flaws talked about that is what sitting far back is like.

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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:01 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I wonder which version of BD FUNi will release for Buu Kai, I hope Kaze was messing around for the French release I actually prefer the JPN BD of Buu Kai.
We'll more than likely get a near-identical version of what Kaze put out. There's no reason in particular to think that the footage was tampered with after Toei was finished.
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I would only recommend FUNi's BD for Z Buu over Buu Kai if like Jinzoningen MULE you can't stand the green tint at all, or don't care for a new improved English dub or prefer hearing the OG JPN Cast back in their Z prime.
Totally forgot to mention that aspect! Yeah, Boo Kai in Japanese is kind of pathetic, so Funi's BD's have the edge. I don't care about the dub, so Funi wins out as far as I'm concerned. I'm also a fan of Funi's audio restoration of the Japanese, even though it's not much. Boo Kai just doesn't hold much for me, although I'm going to buy it anyway cause I'm a tool.

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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:04 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I wonder which version of BD FUNi will release for Buu Kai, I hope Kaze was messing around for the French release I actually prefer the JPN BD of Buu Kai.
We'll more than likely get a near-identical version of what Kaze put out. There's no reason in particular to think that the footage was tampered with after Toei was finished.
Hmm yeah you are probably right.

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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:38 am

After seeing all of these comparison shots, especially with Ajay's explanation at the top of the thread, it leaves me wondering: why do these companies keep dicking around with the image so much? Why bother cropping it? Why bother with color "correction"? As you guys have stated, all they do is mess things up from how they originally were intended to be seen, and they make for a sub-optimal viewing experience.

Why?

Can't they just give us a BD release without any color "correction," cropping, or perhaps even grain removal? They apparently can't do any of that without creating a worse product, so why not just leave it as is?

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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:20 am

SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:Can't they just give us a BD release without any color "correction," cropping, or perhaps even grain removal? They apparently can't do any of that without creating a worse product, so why not just leave it as is?
If they didn't do anything, it wouldn't be marketable as a new product. They should have gone with the Kai-style corrections (without coloring over), which would be great, and light grain removal. That would have been enough.
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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:11 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:They should have gone with the Kai-style corrections (without coloring over), which would be great, and light grain removal. That would have been enough.
They should have just made Kai 30-40 episodes longer. As it is, the inconsistency of Kai makes it a bit of a mess to watch through(Yamamoto, then Kikuchi, then Sumitomo. 4:3 with excellent colours, then 16:9 with a terrible green tint. 98 episodes of 2.3 chapters per episode on average, then 69 episodes of 1.6 per episode. From under half the original length to roughly two thirds or three quarters of the original length. Many redrawn scenes to improve things for people who zoom in to 16:9, then no redrawn scenes at all, despite being forced into 16:9). And while I'm probably not quite spot on with the 30-40 figure, there's no way they needed 69 episodes to do Boo Kai. As is known, there are a huge bunch of episodes that were left exactly as they were in Z, and tons more filler was left in than was necessary.

Yes, they weren't going to air it in Japan, but Boo Kai was produced for the international market anyway, so they might aswell have done it while they were still doing OG Kai to deliver a consistent experience. #98 into TFC #1 works fine, after all DBZ and GT each aired their first episodes one week after their predecessor, in the same timeslot. Plus the huge gap between Kai and Boo Kai has almost certainly lost viewers.
Stopping Kai, then waiting a couple of years, then starting again, and doing Boo Kai as its own thing for the international market, then re-cutting it for Japanese airing, and holding back the US from airing it until Super was airing, instead of just doing 30-50 more episodes of Kai from the get-go strikes me as a much more expensive route, and pretty bad for the already not great PR Kai was getting.

But anyway, what's done is done. At least Boo Kai is finally airing, and people don't have to tolerate the legacy Z dub anymore. >_>
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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by DHM211 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:29 pm

JEFFMAN219 wrote:Does anybody have any comparison images of the Japanese blu ray release of boo saga Kai and seasons 7, 8, and 9 of the Funimation Blu Ray release? And in your opinion does the boo saga of Kai look better then Funimation DBZ Blu Rays for the boo saga?
Funi Blu ray
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Color Corrected Kai TFC (French version)
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Dragon Box
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

All 3 compared
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Imo the Buu saga of Kai in terms of picture quality is the best one. While the green tint is annoying it's pretty easy to fix.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Funimation's only looks better because of the green tint over Boo Kai. That said, the green tint is pretty fucking signifigant! It's also practically uncorrectable. Bulma's hair, Piccolo's skin, and certain backgrounds just can't be fixed. I'd recommend Funimation's Z Blu-ray over Green Kai any day of the week, although both are mediocre, cheap, and quite frankly, embarrassing.
As someone who's color corrected every episode of the english dub so far, I can say thats not true. It takes me about a minute to correct a single episode (and most of that time is spent chopping it up so the new animation isn't included in the color correction). All it takes is a 10% Blue tint increases and a 10% Brightness increases.
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I wonder which version of BD FUNi will release for Buu Kai, I hope Kaze was messing around for the French release I actually prefer the JPN BD of Buu Kai.
The sharpening filter on the Japanese version of the Buu saga was added on after the episodes were already cut down for Fuji TV, so the french version is pretty much exactly what we're getting.

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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:33 pm

DHM211 wrote:As someone who's color corrected every episode of the english dub so far, I can say thats not true. It takes me about a minute to correct a single episode (and most of that time is spent chopping it up so the new animation isn't included in the color correction). All it takes is a 10% Blue tint increases and a 10% Brightness increases.
I'd like to see it. I've seen decent color corrections, but none of them fix Bulma's hair, Piccolo's skin, along with other details here and there. That doesn't mean that the attempts are bad, but those little things always grind on me, even to the point where I'd sooner watch Funimation's Blu-rays.
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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by DHM211 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:40 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
DHM211 wrote:As someone who's color corrected every episode of the english dub so far, I can say thats not true. It takes me about a minute to correct a single episode (and most of that time is spent chopping it up so the new animation isn't included in the color correction). All it takes is a 10% Blue tint increases and a 10% Brightness increases.
I'd like to see it. I've seen decent color corrections, but none of them fix Bulma's hair, Piccolo's skin, along with other details here and there. That doesn't mean that the attempts are bad, but those little things always grind on me, even to the point where I'd sooner watch Funimation's Blu-rays.
Here's some I have on my photobucket

[spoiler]Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]

And heres one I just did of piccolo
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:55 pm

Could you grab a screenshot of the Dragon Box and/or Funimation's version? Feel free not to if you don't want, but I'd like to compare.
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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by DHM211 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:18 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:Could you grab a screenshot of the Dragon Box and/or Funimation's version? Feel free not to if you don't want, but I'd like to compare.
Unfortunately I only have Dragon Box 7 and the Blu Ray of season 9.

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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by Ajay » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:33 pm

DHM211 wrote:As someone who's color corrected every episode of the english dub so far, I can say thats not true. It takes me about a minute to correct a single episode (and most of that time is spent chopping it up so the new animation isn't included in the color correction). All it takes is a 10% Blue tint increases and a 10% Brightness increases.
No, Jinzoningen MULE is correct. Describing Boo Kai's major issue as a 'green tint' is a generalisation of the multitude of problems wrong with its colour. You can remove the tint, but the colours are still very wrong, as demonstrated by your own correction screenshots:

The skies are too green, Piccolo's skin is luminous, the gi colour is still too green, and it's much too bright. It takes a significant amount of work to fix Boo Kai. The colour channels were adjusted individually, so you cannot apply an all encompassing colour shift to it to correct. You have to adjust those channels manually yourself, using something like 'Selective Colour' in After Effects, for example.

It's a pain to fix too since many scenes appear to have been adjusted individually. You can't just correct one scene and hope it works for everything else. It doesn't, unfortunately. Scenes involving Piccolo are especially frustrating. It's just a total mess of a 'remaster'.
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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by DHM211 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:58 pm

Ajay wrote:
DHM211 wrote:As someone who's color corrected every episode of the english dub so far, I can say thats not true. It takes me about a minute to correct a single episode (and most of that time is spent chopping it up so the new animation isn't included in the color correction). All it takes is a 10% Blue tint increases and a 10% Brightness increases.
No, Jinzoningen MULE is correct. Describing Boo Kai's major issue as a 'green tint' is a generalisation of the multitude of problems wrong with its colour. You can remove the tint, but the colours are still very wrong, as demonstrated by your own correction screenshots:

The skies are too green, Piccolo's skin is luminous, the gi colour is still too green, and it's much too bright. It takes a significant amount of work to fix Boo Kai. The colour channels were adjusted individually, so you cannot apply an all encompassing colour shift to it to correct. You have to adjust those channels manually yourself, using something like 'Selective Colour' in After Effects, for example.

It's a pain to fix too since many scenes appear to have been adjusted individually. You can't just correct one scene and hope it works for everything else. It doesn't, unfortunately. Scenes involving Piccolo are especially frustrating. It's just a total mess of a 'remaster'.
I guess it comes down to personal preferences then. Personally I see no problem with the colors once I apply the 10% Blue tint increase and 10% Brightness increase, but that's just me.

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Re: JPN Kai boo saga Blu Ray vs Funimation DBZ Blu Ray(Boo saga)

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:03 pm

DHM211 wrote:I guess it comes down to personal preferences then. Personally I see no problem with the colors once I apply the 10% Blue tint increase and 10% Brightness increase, but that's just me.
We aren't discussing whether it's good or bad, that's up to you. We're saying that the colors aren't correct, which is kind of the point of color correction.
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