Transformation Guide - Nearly Complete, Kinda?

SSJHitch · Post by **SSJHitch** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 7:27 pm

About the Super Kanzentai Cell form, EX. I don't if you'd wanna see this but I split it up into two suparate forms, as to me that what it looked like was happening:

http://www.thesaiyanelite.co.uk/index.p ... trans_cell

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:24 pm

Hmm... USSJ Cell is quite true... totally forgot about that.

Hey, maybe when I'm back to having free time I can work on this again... ! ^^;;

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:27 pm

Would that be called "Seru Dai 2 Dankai"?

SSJHitch · Post by **SSJHitch** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:48 am

That, or Uber Super Buffazoid Cell

SSJHitch · Post by **SSJHitch** » Wed May 19, 2004 5:14 am

I was reading through the Buu guide and found this:

While SSJ3 Gotenks is clearly stronger than this "Super" Buu, Buu (unfortunately) comes up with a plan, and Gotenks becomes absorbed by!

Did you mean "absorbed by Buu" there?

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Mon May 31, 2004 2:03 pm

I almost started a new thread about this, but since it came up here originally, and it isn't a big deal:

Apparently, both "Trunks's house" and "Trunks' house" are correct. It's mainly down to personal preference.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/cleoli ... mode=reply

Of course, I only mention this because "Trunks's" just looks WRONG WRONG WRONG to me. It does. Yes.

Are you going to mention the SSJ stages of the fused characters? The fact that Vegetto seems to go straight to Super Saiyan 2, for instance?

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon May 31, 2004 2:16 pm

I forgot which book I looked it up in, but it was one of those high-class, well-respected books. The rule, according to them, is that only ancient, proper names (such as "Jesus") would use the form: Jesus'.

I agree, though... I absolutely hate the way "Trunks's" looks. It makes us seem like we don't know grammar.

I'm planning on putting some "Theory?" box at the end of each SSJ/Fusion section. Yeah, Vegetto seems to go straight into SSJ2... but we really don't have any proof, other than making assumptions based on the electricity (which is really all we have; we don't have two stages of golden hair to compare, unfortunately).

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Mon May 31, 2004 2:21 pm

That book smells. Obviously. Only explanation.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:17 pm

The argument is arising because the grammar rule is changing in order to match its society's change (another example change if grammar due to societal change: "color" and "colour" are BOTH right, provided whichever you chose must be consistent). That's why ancient, propper names MUST have no s after the apostrophe: no matter how you look at it, you're applying a rule from a time when such a change wasn't tolerated. Jésus follows the same rule as Jesus. Why? Because "Jesus" is just a mispronunciation OF Jésus.

I forgot what book I read that from. Basically it's saying "we give up because the masses are stupid, so accept either provided they're consistant throughout their text". It's kind of like how prostitution may be legalized soon in Vancouver. Their reasoning is the cops can't keep up with the number of people breaking the law, so just legalize it and that way nobody's breaking any laws.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Mon May 31, 2004 7:20 pm

Except that almost everyone I know who has any sort of grasp of English wants to write it as "Trunks' sword". It seems more a case of super-nerdy scholars wanted to be different to the masses. Like people who still write "gaol" instead of "jail".

And surely "color" is correct in the US, and "Colour" correct in the UK/Canada/Australia? Outside of US products appearing in those countries that have "color" in the title?

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon May 31, 2004 7:30 pm

That's what I always assumed. That "color" was the American way of spelling it.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon May 31, 2004 8:36 pm

I guess my post wasn't clear enough. s' is actually the original, more frequently used method, but recently more and more people say "s's". To avoid this argument, official sources are changing to both being correct (as both are correct pronunciations) provided the writer is at least consistent in the use of whichever method he uses.

Concerning "color" and "colour": "color" is used ONLY in the US, but due to proximity to them, Canada accepts both provided you're consistent throughout the text.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:42 am

SSJHitch wrote:About the Super Kanzentai Cell form, EX. I don't if you'd wanna see this but I split it up into two suparate forms, as to me that what it looked like was happening:

http://www.thesaiyanelite.co.uk/index.p ... trans_cell

Getting around to working on some things...

Can anyone give me an episode number on this? I could look for it myself, but I'd rather work on some other things while someone else found me the number. I've GOT the episodes in question, so all I need to know is which episode it's in (and where-abouts in the episode, but that's not as important).

(EDIT: Nevermind, I found the episode (187). Rest of text is as-is from initial post.)

Wrote some stuff on the Saiyan Transformations page, noting in that "Theories?" stuff I had mentioned. There's some stuff under SSJ1 and some stuff under SSJ2. That reminds me... I need to add Gogeta to the SSJ1 section. It was a movie, but it's another SSJ1 character...

I'm back to working on these kinds of sections, so if anyone comes up with more things to add / changes to make, let 'em roll, even if you've already brought them up before. I'm trying to go through all the pages of text we've written, but I'm sure to miss some things.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:50 am

Aiya. Added a few things, and need (specifically) at least one thing.

Saiyan Transformations: Added two "Theories" sections to SSJ1 (one about Cell, and one about Pan / Goku Jr. / Vegeta Jr.) Added one "Theory" to USSJ section (about Cell). Took better SSJ2 image. Added two "Theories" to SSJ2.

Cell Transformations: Added new section concerning possible SSJ/USSJ transformations, including screen cap. Need chapter number for Cell's "USSJ"-esque transformation.

Continue to throw new things / fuck-ups / ideas at me. I should go to bed, now.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:27 am

Some really good stuff this time, I'd like to throw my two cents in about whether Cell becomes "SSJ".

My theory is that Cell is always at the state of "SSJ", even at his first appearance as imperfect. For one, he's already more powerful than a typical SSJ (Confident that he could defeat Vegeta, and he had already killed Trunks in his own time). And secondly, Cell always had a golden aura, even before becoming perfect. So I guess that he always had the benefit of SSJ strength.

As for his "USSJ" stages, you might want to also add that Cell can transform into USSJ1 (Demonstrated on Trunks) and USSJ2 (Used against SSJ2 Gohan).

And since you've already added a Cell theory section to SSJ, and USSJ, why not list his "Super Perfect" form under SSJ2? And while you at that, come up with a theoritical SSJ3 Cell

Now I'm going to throw this idea out there, even though I'm almost guranteed to get flamed for even mentioning it

I say you add SSJ5 to the list of Saiyan transformations, and I'm not talking about that "AF" picture.

I'm just annoyed by so many webmasters, in their efforts to expel the AF rumor, insist that their is nothing beyond SSJ4, and while it's never actually showcased in the series, their was infact SSJ5 (or atleast hinted at). In the episode of GT where Bulma tells Vegeta that she can use her Brutz wave amplifier to help him reach SSJ4, then goes on to say that with enough Brutz that he could surpass SSJ4, and Vegeta believes that it would make him SSJ5 (although this never happens, since the machine is broken shortly afterwards.)

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:52 pm

In the episode of GT where Bulma tells Vegeta that she can use her Brutz wave amplifier to help him reach SSJ4, then goes on to say that with enough Brutz that he could surpass SSJ4, and Vegeta believes that it would make him SSJ5 (although this never happens, since the machine is broken shortly afterwards.)

How was this said in Japanese? I just watched Funi's DVD earlier with SSJ4 Vegeta (why wasn't he able to control regular Oozaru?! He's was able to in Z!) and in the subbed version nothing like that was said in the subtitles, just that Bulma has faith that Vegeta'd be able to control the Oozaru state and make SSJ4.

Added one "Theory" to USSJ section

Do you remember a while back I argued that Vegeta could go USSJ2 because Trunks realised (after Cell showed him the futility of USSJ2) that Vegeta just never bothered to transform that far? (Trunks' reasoning was that Vegeta saw through the faults of USSJ2)

I just thought I'd bring it up that the English Shonen Jump translated it that way as well on page 275 of US Shonen Jump #19 (pages 1 and 2 of chapter 194 of DBZ):

Cell: "What good is a transformation that only gives you brute strength? You were a fool."
Trunks: "... So that's why dad chose not to transform this way... He knew this would happen... Cell is right... I...I was an idiot..."

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:09 pm

Dayspring wrote:How was this said in Japanese? I just watched Funi's DVD earlier with SSJ4 Vegeta (why wasn't he able to control regular Oozaru?! He's was able to in Z!) and in the subbed version nothing like that was said in the subtitles, just that Bulma has faith that Vegeta'd be able to control the Oozaru state and make SSJ4.

I don't own the DVD, so I can't give you the direct quote. However I did watch it just a few weeks ago (subbed), and Bulma does say he would surpass SSJ4, and Vegeta does say SSJ5. It's right before he leaves to help Goku.

And as for Vegeta losing control...he didn't. I think you need to watch those episodes again a little more closely.

Vegeta reveals that he had only been pretending to be out of control.

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:34 pm

Heh, I was going to say that before Deus did. He even called Goku a damned fool for thinking he lost control.

As for SSJ5.. Which ep was that exactly? I have the exact DVD where Vegeta turned SSJ4 but I don't remember the SSJ5 stuff. Was it in an ep not on the DVD?

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:45 pm

B-kun wrote:As for SSJ5.. Which ep was that exactly? I have the exact DVD where Vegeta turned SSJ4 but I don't remember the SSJ5 stuff. Was it in an ep not on the DVD?

I don't know precisely the episode (Although I have the feeling I'm going to have to rent it again to prove myself.

) but it's the same episode when Vegeta transformed into SSJ4, or maybe the episode before that.

It's in there, both in sub and dub. Go back and watch it again so I don't have to!

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:55 pm

O.o Huh, I don't remember it, and my memory for anime is pathetically good... .Maybe it was in an episode in the DVD before or something...

Kanzenshuu

Transformation Guide - Nearly Complete, Kinda?

Who is online