"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
So the other day I saw some body asking why Gohan didn't go SS against anizara...
Seems like super is working quite well for bringing in new fans, the wealth of half baked knowledge around the web is a good enough proof!
Seems like super is working quite well for bringing in new fans, the wealth of half baked knowledge around the web is a good enough proof!
The Lord moves in mysterious ways but you don't have to. Please use your blinker
Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
Mortal level can play a part in increasing quality of warriors.Suppose,if there are 10 people in a higher level universe that are training and their are 10 in U7.Now,the higher level universe should naturally have more opportunities and could get the help of gods similar to goku(U11 and may be U2).Totamo wrote:Hawk9211 wrote:[spoiler][/spoiler]The_Destroyer wrote:
Okay, you're right. Universe 7 only got strong because certain events played out the way did. I get that. But could they not have played out similarly in another Universe? Could there not have been a threat that simultaneously occured while Universe 7's events were playing out that caused equally strong fighters to rise. I mean, we do need fodder in the tournament, but not consistent fodder stomps. They sort of did this with Universe 9, with the Trio explaining how they got strong through their struggles. Also, Super's powerscaling is incredibly wonky. If we go by it, tons of fighters should be able to beat buu. But,I mean, should they?
I guess we're looking at this wrong way here. What you said can be true and we can reduce the number of fodder stomps as well. Should fodder stomps not exist? Well, everyone should at least get one cool moment, so I guess not. But this can be fixed by having better matchups, like instead of fighting Goku or Vegeta, have that person fight Piccolo instead. Or just raise their power up a bit. We don't know what those guys have been through either. If the ToP took place during the time of Frieza's regin, for all we know a lot of these guys would be weaker.
The Headcanon comment was wrong of me, I apologize. Sometimes we can make logical conclusions based on what's given to us, I actually do it all the time too, so it was hyporcritical of me to do so. I still stand by the idea of Whis saying what you said,as to why a Universe with such a low mortal level can dominate.
There is no reason for the other universes to not have contestants like U7.
First,U7=/=equal to any other universe.It has a hakaishin that sleeps most of time,one that destroys civilizations on his whims and food.It faced a universal genocide thanks to a ancient demon.It was ravaged by freeza and saiyans.It has a kaioshin who does not know shit.
Second,mortal level may not equate to strength but it should play a part in increasing their strengths.After all,the whole multiverse is focused on martial arts and a higher mortal level should provide more chances.It also appears that outside of U7 and U10 the gods are much closer to mortals which means that they could be guided in a similar way like goku.
Third,let's put in universe logic aside.There should be stronger or more trickier opponents the same way after the defeat of the strongest being freeza,there was king cold,Android 20/19/18/17/16,buu,dabura,shin,beerus and whis.
Now I have 2 problems with your second point.
1. Mortal level playing a part in increasing strength makes no sense, because everybody is different and reacts to environments differently. If you put 2 weak fighters in a harsh environment, one may get stronger and the other may die and if you put them in good environments, one may get stronger while the other may get weaker. This happens to Gohan all the time whenever there is peace.
2. kaioshins aren't very strong, zamasu was said to be the strongest and Goku could have easily beaten him and Hakoshins aren't mentors, they are basically governors. I doubt, they would train them. Goku isn't even being trained by Beerus but by Whis.
Now I have one problem with your last point.
1. Who says all these guys are the strongest? this is dragon ball, whenever have we ever stuck to this guy remaining the strongest. Even Beerus will be surpassed one day.
2.I was talking about same concept.Tenshinhan had techniques that shook roshi.Buu could everything cell could do in a way and even more.While in top some gimmicks are the ones that are even less unique than og dragon ball.In og db,there was a guy giran that could fly and throw gums when flying was something special.In top,we have four people that can fly with nothing else unique.Someone can argue this is because of number of contestant but both of us have talked about it before.
Why power levels are important?
The genre and roots of dragon ball
Spoiler:
Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
You are assuming all of this fighters are trained martial artists and not just naturally strong. Caulifla was not a trained fighter and U6 is higher than U7.Hawk9211 wrote:Mortal level can play a part in increasing quality of warriors.Suppose,if there are 10 people in a higher level universe that are training and their are 10 in U7.Now,the higher level universe should naturally have more opportunities and could get the help of gods similar to goku(U11 and may be U2).Totamo wrote:Hawk9211 wrote:[spoiler][/spoiler]
There is no reason for the other universes to not have contestants like U7.
First,U7=/=equal to any other universe.It has a hakaishin that sleeps most of time,one that destroys civilizations on his whims and food.It faced a universal genocide thanks to a ancient demon.It was ravaged by freeza and saiyans.It has a kaioshin who does not know shit.
Second,mortal level may not equate to strength but it should play a part in increasing their strengths.After all,the whole multiverse is focused on martial arts and a higher mortal level should provide more chances.It also appears that outside of U7 and U10 the gods are much closer to mortals which means that they could be guided in a similar way like goku.
Third,let's put in universe logic aside.There should be stronger or more trickier opponents the same way after the defeat of the strongest being freeza,there was king cold,Android 20/19/18/17/16,buu,dabura,shin,beerus and whis.
Now I have 2 problems with your second point.
1. Mortal level playing a part in increasing strength makes no sense, because everybody is different and reacts to environments differently. If you put 2 weak fighters in a harsh environment, one may get stronger and the other may die and if you put them in good environments, one may get stronger while the other may get weaker. This happens to Gohan all the time whenever there is peace.
2. kaioshins aren't very strong, zamasu was said to be the strongest and Goku could have easily beaten him and Hakoshins aren't mentors, they are basically governors. I doubt, they would train them. Goku isn't even being trained by Beerus but by Whis.
Now I have one problem with your last point.
1. Who says all these guys are the strongest? this is dragon ball, whenever have we ever stuck to this guy remaining the strongest. Even Beerus will be surpassed one day.
2.I was talking about same concept.Tenshinhan had techniques that shook roshi.Buu could everything cell could do in a way and even more.While in top some gimmicks are the ones that are even less unique than og dragon ball.In og db,there was a guy giran that could fly and throw gums when flying was something special.In top,we have four people that can fly with nothing else unique.Someone can argue this is because of number of contestant but both of us have talked about it before.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
Btw what happen to the gods of destruction that didnt participated in the tournament (Gin, the fox god etc?) Even Vermouth is nowhere to be seen?
Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
I think they're just watching.Pannaliciour wrote:Btw what happen to the gods of destruction that didnt participated in the tournament (Gin, the fox god etc?) Even Vermouth is nowhere to be seen?
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
I was talking how could they be more powerful or with better gimmicks,of course not all of them would be martial artists we have a whole universe of robots.But it is still a martial arts tournament,so it is safe to assume most of them are trained martial arts.Totamo wrote:You are assuming all of this fighters are trained martial artists and not just naturally strong. Caulifla was not a trained fighter and U6 is higher than U7.Hawk9211 wrote:Mortal level can play a part in increasing quality of warriors.Suppose,if there are 10 people in a higher level universe that are training and their are 10 in U7.Now,the higher level universe should naturally have more opportunities and could get the help of gods similar to goku(U11 and may be U2).Totamo wrote:
Now I have 2 problems with your second point.
1. Mortal level playing a part in increasing strength makes no sense, because everybody is different and reacts to environments differently. If you put 2 weak fighters in a harsh environment, one may get stronger and the other may die and if you put them in good environments, one may get stronger while the other may get weaker. This happens to Gohan all the time whenever there is peace.
2. kaioshins aren't very strong, zamasu was said to be the strongest and Goku could have easily beaten him and Hakoshins aren't mentors, they are basically governors. I doubt, they would train them. Goku isn't even being trained by Beerus but by Whis.
Now I have one problem with your last point.
1. Who says all these guys are the strongest? this is dragon ball, whenever have we ever stuck to this guy remaining the strongest. Even Beerus will be surpassed one day.
2.I was talking about same concept.Tenshinhan had techniques that shook roshi.Buu could everything cell could do in a way and even more.While in top some gimmicks are the ones that are even less unique than og dragon ball.In og db,there was a guy giran that could fly and throw gums when flying was something special.In top,we have four people that can fly with nothing else unique.Someone can argue this is because of number of contestant but both of us have talked about it before.
Why power levels are important?
The genre and roots of dragon ball
Spoiler:
Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
But when you have THIS much hype, compared to a character with NO hype? Hype doesn't NECESSARILY mean anything, but usually it amounts to something. I get that you're a Vegeta fanboy and all that, but even YOU have to admit that Vegeta narratively hasn't been touched on AT ALL in this arc.Supersaiyanbulla wrote:Just because gohan has hype doesn't mean anything especially when tons of characters got false hype.Artorias wrote:I think that's all but certain to be honest, and I've thought that from the beginning. Vegeta has no real narrative presence in this arc, whereas Gohan is seemingly the secondary main character right now. I'd actually be shocked if Vegeta outlasted Gohan.Nickolaidas wrote:I wonder ... we've pretty much seen 17's most badass moment, and next couple of eps we undoubtedly get Vegeta's. I wonder if this means that 17 and Vegeta are the next ones out.
Could Gohan outlast Vegeta?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
Actually I wasn't even talking about vegeta I'm saying so many characters go more hype then gohan and failed to live up to it like krillin who was literally hyped up even before the arc started.Artorias wrote:But when you have THIS much hype, compared to a character with NO hype? Hype doesn't NECESSARILY mean anything, but usually it amounts to something. I get that you're a Vegeta fanboy and all that, but even YOU have to admit that Vegeta narratively hasn't been touched on AT ALL in this arc.Supersaiyanbulla wrote:Just because gohan has hype doesn't mean anything especially when tons of characters got false hype.Artorias wrote:
I think that's all but certain to be honest, and I've thought that from the beginning. Vegeta has no real narrative presence in this arc, whereas Gohan is seemingly the secondary main character right now. I'd actually be shocked if Vegeta outlasted Gohan.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
Ok, but I was specifically talking about Vegeta or Gohan lasting longer. And since Gohan has had much more hype this arc, I feel that it makes the most sense for him to stick around longer than Vegeta.Supersaiyanbulla wrote:Actually I wasn't even talking about vegeta I'm saying so many characters go more hype then gohan and failed to live up to it like krillin who was literally hyped up even before the arc started.Artorias wrote:But when you have THIS much hype, compared to a character with NO hype? Hype doesn't NECESSARILY mean anything, but usually it amounts to something. I get that you're a Vegeta fanboy and all that, but even YOU have to admit that Vegeta narratively hasn't been touched on AT ALL in this arc.Supersaiyanbulla wrote: Just because gohan has hype doesn't mean anything especially when tons of characters got false hype.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
Fair enough.Artorias wrote:Ok, but I was specifically talking about Vegeta or Gohan lasting longer. And since Gohan has had much more hype this arc, I feel that it makes the most sense for him to stick around longer than Vegeta.Supersaiyanbulla wrote:Actually I wasn't even talking about vegeta I'm saying so many characters go more hype then gohan and failed to live up to it like krillin who was literally hyped up even before the arc started.Artorias wrote:
But when you have THIS much hype, compared to a character with NO hype? Hype doesn't NECESSARILY mean anything, but usually it amounts to something. I get that you're a Vegeta fanboy and all that, but even YOU have to admit that Vegeta narratively hasn't been touched on AT ALL in this arc.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
Truly, the Krillin hype was just ... I really hope he will do something in the next arc.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
I don't understand when was there "Krillin hype"?
I was never under the impression that Krillin was hyped for anything in the tournament? Is it because he got a recruitment episode?
I was never under the impression that Krillin was hyped for anything in the tournament? Is it because he got a recruitment episode?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
Someone made a comment on a different site that made me laugh lol.
This episode was complete GARBAGE.
1. "Androids don't have energy like you guys"
How can they attack with ki yet not be able to be sensed?
Brb Goku detected 18 for IT
Brb Goku could sense 17 was holding back in their fight
2. Hatichiyack became Janemba Jr.
And it wasn't even due to hax, but sheer power. With that logic Jiren/Goku should have it. The only hax he has is echolocation, which is garbage, and likely implies that he is physically blind. Has wings yet doesn't need to flap them to fly.
3. The Prince nothing being comparable to Jiren
Vegeta's ONLY blue level opponents were the Trio de Dangers, and Toppo.
HE HAD GOKU'S HELP TO BEAT THE TRIO AND NEVER DID ANYTHING TO TOPPO.
Yet somehow, he's magically making Jiren act like a punk and landing insane blows, making him stronger than the spirit bomb amped by Kaioken x20 Goku, and Goku first achieving UIO. Yet somehow after fighting literally nobody worth note he just comes along and throws all of Goku's feats in the garbage. UIO Goku put his knees into Jiren with a ki blast and nothing happened.
I'm tired of this show, they constantly give Goku good feats then instantly drop Vegeta right next to him. His character is nothing but a giant PIS + Outlier. There's no justification for this, not training nor anger.
"Draw power from beyond your limits"
So Vegeta's limits just magically happen to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UIO Goku > Spirit Bomb > Kefla >> Goku's numerous broken limits huh...
This episode was complete GARBAGE.
1. "Androids don't have energy like you guys"
How can they attack with ki yet not be able to be sensed?
Brb Goku detected 18 for IT
Brb Goku could sense 17 was holding back in their fight
2. Hatichiyack became Janemba Jr.
And it wasn't even due to hax, but sheer power. With that logic Jiren/Goku should have it. The only hax he has is echolocation, which is garbage, and likely implies that he is physically blind. Has wings yet doesn't need to flap them to fly.
3. The Prince nothing being comparable to Jiren
Vegeta's ONLY blue level opponents were the Trio de Dangers, and Toppo.
HE HAD GOKU'S HELP TO BEAT THE TRIO AND NEVER DID ANYTHING TO TOPPO.
Yet somehow, he's magically making Jiren act like a punk and landing insane blows, making him stronger than the spirit bomb amped by Kaioken x20 Goku, and Goku first achieving UIO. Yet somehow after fighting literally nobody worth note he just comes along and throws all of Goku's feats in the garbage. UIO Goku put his knees into Jiren with a ki blast and nothing happened.
I'm tired of this show, they constantly give Goku good feats then instantly drop Vegeta right next to him. His character is nothing but a giant PIS + Outlier. There's no justification for this, not training nor anger.
"Draw power from beyond your limits"
So Vegeta's limits just magically happen to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UIO Goku > Spirit Bomb > Kefla >> Goku's numerous broken limits huh...
Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
Wow. That’s the most mature thing I’ve read on here. Now I feel silly.The_Destroyer wrote:Okay, you're right. Universe 7 only got strong because certain events played out the way did. I get that. But could they not have played out similarly in another Universe? Could there not have been a threat that simultaneously occured while Universe 7's events were playing out that caused equally strong fighters to rise. I mean, we do need fodder in the tournament, but not consistent fodder stomps. They sort of did this with Universe 9, with the Trio explaining how they got strong through their struggles. Also, Super's powerscaling is incredibly wonky. If we go by it, tons of fighters should be able to beat buu. But,I mean, should they?TheOne wrote:Since you’re tired of “fodder stomps” you’re not going to agree with anything? You reduced my statements (which were facts) to headcannon? You had HeroR validate pretty much what I said verbatim and you refuse to acknowledge you’re wrong? Gotcha.The_Destroyer wrote:
If we dont know all the details about Mortal Level then maybe stop using it then? Besides the backhanded compliments, majority of what you said is mere headcanon and is not stated in the show. Maybe people would accept it more if what you said was said by the grand priest or whis or Anat or whatever. I know I wouldn't though, because I'm sick of the fodder stomps and want more fights like the one we just got in 121.
I guess we're looking at this wrong way here. What you said can be true and we can reduce the number of fodder stomps as well. Should fodder stomps not exist? Well, everyone should at least get one cool moment, so I guess not. But this can be fixed by having better matchups, like instead of fighting Goku or Vegeta, have that person fight Piccolo instead. Or just raise their power up a bit. We don't know what those guys have been through either. If the ToP took place during the time of Frieza's regin, for all we know a lot of these guys would be weaker.
The Headcanon comment was wrong of me, I apologize. Sometimes we can make logical conclusions based on what's given to us, I actually do it all the time too, so it was hyporcritical of me to do so. I still stand by the idea of Whis saying what you said,as to why a Universe with such a low mortal level can dominate.
I feel like that’s part of why Grand Priest has taken a liking to U7. They’re the underdog. Despite having a system that ranks them so low, they’re performing exceptionally well. Maybe proving that their system of ranking is flawed. Who knows. Everything is so vague. I really wish they would make more of an explanation of Mortal Level.
How i predict the tournament will end:
Spoiler:
Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
Zen-Oh erased them off-screen.Pannaliciour wrote:Btw what happen to the gods of destruction that didnt participated in the tournament (Gin, the fox god etc?) Even Vermouth is nowhere to be seen?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
He got an episode just before the recruitment 'filler' where he faced his fears and became more courageous.Yedis wrote:I don't understand when was there "Krillin hype"?
I was never under the impression that Krillin was hyped for anything in the tournament? Is it because he got a recruitment episode?
He beat Gohan in a battle of skill. Stood his ground against Goku in base, SSJ, and SSB.
Compared to what he was in Z, I consider the above to be pretty hype, considering how Yamcha and Tien were handled in comparison.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
U6 may be naturally stronger but I can get behind U7 being a good deal more skilled all around. Yamcha wasn`t picked and was either pitching faster or with more finesse than a good deal of them could hit the ballTotamo wrote:You are assuming all of this fighters are trained martial artists and not just naturally strong. Caulifla was not a trained fighter and U6 is higher than U7.
I guess in the end it`s been proven that despite initial ranking, U7 got about the best balance out of nearly anyone in skill and raw power.
Ki Breaker wrote:
Yamcha + Roshi = Yamoshi
Coincidence? I think not
Yamcha + Roshi = Yamoshi
Coincidence? I think not
Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
The model of fights tend to be universalised. I'm not sure how people can single out distinctive traits when you have over 90% of the cast using the same general choreographic punches and kicks. Few exceptions like Hit's Phoenix Eye Fist and Napapa's sumo themed moves tend to be pointed out either in words or actions. Our only hint of identity as to what it is characters like Goku use was an off-hand quote given all the way back at the beginning of the original DB when he stated that his grandfather had taught him Kung-Fu. Ever since then we've failed to see much shift from how he fights except for the diminished effort to portray the exchanges specifically and replacing them with indeterminable motion blurs. Usually the difference between fighters lies in their energy based attacks. In terms of versatility and efficiency, the earthlings are on par with the aliens, if not superior.
Other universes don't seem to have too much of a disadvantage when it comes to "finesse". More often than not it was thanks to raw power that U7 has been able to win.
Other universes don't seem to have too much of a disadvantage when it comes to "finesse". More often than not it was thanks to raw power that U7 has been able to win.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread
Sorry to bring the Toshio tweets again into the conversation. i think Vegeta fans should be reliefed that he didn't do anything last episode because it means he will still do something cool after the Jiren episode on an upcoming Toshio episode. and about the 17 tweets i don't know if he was referring to last episode because before those tweet saying he will write 17 he already said he wrote an episode for U3. any thoughts ?