"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[MajinVegetaPD]

Or maybe his wish gets revealed while he is fighting 17, Freeza, and Goku before either he knocked out of the ring, or the clock hits 0.

Just 3 more days until he is gone, and its the best for the franchise, Toei butchered him to the point he is one of the worst antagonist in anime history.

I can see Goku just asking the Zenos for a solid to restore the universes and Goku gifting his wish to Jiren, and then using the Earth's dragon balls to revive Freeza. That's actually a lot to cram into one episode.

[BlueBasilisk]

I can see Goku just asking the Zenos for a solid to restore the universes and Goku gifting his wish to Jiren, and then using the Earth's dragon balls to revive Freeza. That's actually a lot to cram into one episode.

The wishes on the Earth's Dragon Balls could easily be tucked into a little montage like at the end of the Frieza saga. It all depends how long the fight goes on. Hopefully it doesn't take longer than the first half or it's really going to be crunched for time.

[shadowmaria]

I can see Goku just asking the Zenos for a solid to restore the universes and Goku gifting his wish to Jiren, and then using the Earth's dragon balls to revive Freeza. That's actually a lot to cram into one episode.

The wishes on the Earth's Dragon Balls could easily be tucked into a little montage like at the end of the Frieza saga. It all depends how long the fight goes on. Hopefully it doesn't take longer than the first half or it's really going to be crunched for time.

Shenron can’t be used to restore Frieza to life, though. He’s already done that. The only dragon’s that can restore Frieza to life are Porunga, Super Shenron, and Ultimate Shenron.

The Namekian’s would never agree to do it. The Super Dragon Ball’s would have just been used, but I suppose it makes no difference as a time skip could occur, and the Black-Star Dragon Ball’s haven’t been so much as mentioned outside of GT

It amazes me that people keep overlooking this detail in Goku’s promise. Frieza is not getting revived this weekend

[jeffbr92]

Shenron can’t be used to restore Frieza to life, though. He’s already done that. The only dragon’s that can restore Frieza to life are Porunga, Super Shenron, and Ultimate Shenron. It amazes me that people keep overlooking this detail in Goku’s promise

In a perfect world that would be something they would look at, but knowing how Super is inconsistent they probably will forget about that or just erase Freeza for good anyway.

[Dragono]

Just 3 more days until he is gone, and its the best for the franchise, Toei butchered him to the point he is one of the worst antagonist in anime history.

Yeah, sure, it is Toei's fault that they did exactly what they were told to do after actually planning something else for him.

1. No, they did not, because Jiren has been talking nonstop in every episode he has been in since this year started.

2. They have written him inconsistently which may be even worse.

3. Hit is also silent and while he is not a universally liked character, he is far more loved than hated and he actually spoke LESS.

4. he was actually liked more when he wasn't coming.



This dumb idea, that conception is what matters and not execution is why Super has the problems. Its not what you do, its how you do it, damnit.

[shadowmaria]

Shenron can’t be used to restore Frieza to life, though. He’s already done that. The only dragon’s that can restore Frieza to life are Porunga, Super Shenron, and Ultimate Shenron. It amazes me that people keep overlooking this detail in Goku’s promise

In a perfect world that would be something they would look at, but knowing how Super is inconsistent they probably will forget about that or just erase Freeza for good anyway.

Pray tell, how has Super been inconsistent with in-Universe rules from over 30 years ago? I can’t think of a single instance

[jeffbr92]

Pray tell, how has Super been inconsistent with in-Universe rules from over 30 years ago? I can’t think of a single instance

Apart from everything related to power level scalling?

You've got the Galactic King, Jaco, and a whole patrol, just for one galaxy (when we know there's at least four). Containing at least Earth, we've seen a few planets already, Monaka is a delivery man. Freeza had over 70 planets, had sold god knows how many more, King Cold could have had way more, the sheer number of aliens we've seen. I am not buying it. There's not 28 planets when Shin didn't even look at the Earth for centuries. He could check in with all 28 in a week.

It could have countless galaxies in each universe. It was brought up when Bulma was looking for the Super Dragon Balls. It's inconsistent and there's nothing to make it make sense about it. The Saiyans, Freeza, Beerus and Boo destroying planets isn't a good excuse.

The only thing is, Shin was lying. If there were 100 planets it would still be stupid. We would need at least thousands for that to make sense.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Shenron can’t be used to restore Frieza to life, though. He’s already done that. The only dragon’s that can restore Frieza to life are Porunga, Super Shenron, and Ultimate Shenron. It amazes me that people keep overlooking this detail in Goku’s promise

In a perfect world that would be something they would look at, but knowing how Super is inconsistent they probably will forget about that or just erase Freeza for good anyway.

Actually, Dende's Dragon Balls don't have that limitation, in the same vein as how they can grant up to 3 wishes like the Namek Dragon Balls.

People gotta remember that Dende was a lot better at making wish-granting orbs of ultimate power than Kami was, or at least enough that he could make Earth's set better.

[shadowmaria]

Pray tell, how has Super been inconsistent with in-Universe rules from over 30 years ago? I can’t think of a single instance

Apart from everything related to power level scalling?

You've got the Galactic King, Jaco, and a whole patrol, just for one galaxy (when we know there's at least four). Containing at least Earth, we've seen a few planets already, Monaka is a delivery man. Freeza had over 70 planets, had sold god knows how many more, King Cold could have had way more, the sheer number of aliens we've seen. I am not buying it. There's not 28 planets when Shin didn't even look at the Earth for centuries. He could check in with all 28 in a week.

It could have countless galaxies in each universe. It was brought up when Bulma was looking for the Super Dragon Balls. It's inconsistent and there's nothing to make it make sense about it. The Saiyans, Freeza, Beerus and Boo destroying planets isn't a good excuse.

The only thing is, Shin was lying. If there were 100 planets it would still be stupid. We would need at least thousands for that to make sense.

One at a time;

*Power scaling hasn't mattered in the anime since Goku went toe-to-toe with Pikkon shortly after being bested by Perfect Cell at the Cell Games. In the manga, power scaling did matter and Super's manga from Toyotaro hasn't actually been inconsistent with that. People just don't like

*Galactic King, Jaco, and a whole patrol - not an inconsistency. Added later through Minus, and Jaco even stated that he and the Galactic Patrol has other things to do aside from look out for Earth.

*Monaka is a delivery man (instead of being this great fighter, I assume?) - not an inconsistency. Just something you don't like.

*28 Planets - not an inconsistency. Just something people disagree with because it sounds dumb. And the line isn't about there only being 28 Planet's in Universe 7, there's only 28 planets inhabited by mortals. This is consistent with the number of planets seen in Dragon Ball, Z, Super, and GT. Also, I don't know where you got this information that Shin was lying from? Aside from your own deductions or the deductions of fans, can you show me where in the anime, manga, interviews with Toriyama, or guidebooks that Shin was lying about this fact?

Shenron can’t be used to restore Frieza to life, though. He’s already done that. The only dragon’s that can restore Frieza to life are Porunga, Super Shenron, and Ultimate Shenron. It amazes me that people keep overlooking this detail in Goku’s promise

In a perfect world that would be something they would look at, but knowing how Super is inconsistent they probably will forget about that or just erase Freeza for good anyway.

Actually, Dende's Dragon Balls don't have that limitation, in the same vein as how they can grant up to 3 wishes like the Namek Dragon Balls.

People gotta remember that Dende was a lot better at making wish-granting orbs of ultimate power than Kami was, or at least enough that he could make Earth's set better.

I don't recall this ever being stated in the anime, manga, interviews with Toriyama, or guidebooks. The closest I can recall is discussing reviving Goku, but he asked a say in things. It was never stated that Shenron would actually be able to grant this wish

[Dragono]

Pray tell, how has Super been inconsistent with in-Universe rules from over 30 years ago? I can’t think of a single instance

Apart from everything related to power level scalling?

You've got the Galactic King, Jaco, and a whole patrol, just for one galaxy (when we know there's at least four). Containing at least Earth, we've seen a few planets already, Monaka is a delivery man. Freeza had over 70 planets, had sold god knows how many more, King Cold could have had way more, the sheer number of aliens we've seen. I am not buying it. There's not 28 planets when Shin didn't even look at the Earth for centuries. He could check in with all 28 in a week.

It could have countless galaxies in each universe. It was brought up when Bulma was looking for the Super Dragon Balls. It's inconsistent and there's nothing to make it make sense about it. The Saiyans, Freeza, Beerus and Boo destroying planets isn't a good excuse.

The only thing is, Shin was lying. If there were 100 planets it would still be stupid. We would need at least thousands for that to make sense.

Actually, in the Jaco manga, He himself said there weren't that many planets left with civil life on them and we never saw those planets that Freeza had and what amount of aliens , you mean all the ones Freeza enslaved? Because those are the only time we saw any aliens in the manga.

[jeffbr92]

*Power scaling hasn't mattered in the anime since Goku went toe-to-toe with Pikkon shortly after being bested by Perfect Cell at the Cell Games. In the manga, power scaling did matter and Super's manga from Toyotaro hasn't actually been inconsistent with that. People just don't like

*Galactic King, Jaco, and a whole patrol - not an inconsistency. Added later through Minus, and Jaco even stated that he and the Galactic Patrol has other things to do aside from look out for Earth.

*Monaka is a delivery man (instead of being this great fighter, I assume?) - not an inconsistency. Just something you don't like.

*28 Planets - not an inconsistency. Just something people disagree with because it sounds dumb. And the line isn't about there only being 28 Planet's in Universe 7, there's only 28 planets inhabited by mortals. This is consistent with the number of planets seen in Dragon Ball, Z, Super, and GT. Also, I don't know where you got this information that Shin was lying from? Aside from your own deductions or the deductions of fans, can you show me where in the anime, manga, interviews with Toriyama, or guidebooks that Shin was lying about this fact?

*That was filler, just like humans toe-to-toe with the Ginyu Force and SSJ Goku vs. Ultimate Gohan inside Boo. Super has no filler and the manga has some inconsistencies regarding Black, Trunks and Vegeta power level.

*What I said is that there's only one Galactic Patrol for just one galaxy.

*No? I was adding to the context: "we've seen a few planets already, Monaka is a delivery man" also that could mean he should be well know around the places if there just a couple of planets in the universe, which he's not.

*Then provide me his correct line then, because if that's so I don't think it's that much of a stretch that only 28 planets have life though, but only 28 in a whole universe, yes. Also don't play the smartass, I meant: the only thing I can buy is that if Shin was lying about that.

Actually, in the Jaco manga, He himself said there weren't that many planets left with civil life on them and we never saw those planets that Freeza had and what amount of aliens , you mean all the ones Freeza enslaved? Because those are the only time we saw any aliens in the manga.

But is Jaco from North Galaxy? Should he know about other planets with life on other galaxies? Not only DB/Super (manga), but some of the anime (Z/Super) too.

[kn83]

For the love of God, there isn't much wrong with Super's powerscaling. People that whine about it usually have no idea what powerscaling is .

Until we see stuff Krillin matching Beerus in an all out fight, you can't complain.

[BlueBasilisk]

I can see Goku just asking the Zenos for a solid to restore the universes and Goku gifting his wish to Jiren, and then using the Earth's dragon balls to revive Freeza. That's actually a lot to cram into one episode.

The wishes on the Earth's Dragon Balls could easily be tucked into a little montage like at the end of the Frieza saga. It all depends how long the fight goes on. Hopefully it doesn't take longer than the first half or it's really going to be crunched for time.

Shenron can’t be used to restore Frieza to life, though. He’s already done that. The only dragon’s that can restore Frieza to life are Porunga, Super Shenron, and Ultimate Shenron.

The Namekian’s would never agree to do it. The Super Dragon Ball’s would have just been used, but I suppose it makes no difference as a time skip could occur, and the Black-Star Dragon Ball’s haven’t been so much as mentioned outside of GT

It amazes me that people keep overlooking this detail in Goku’s promise. Frieza is not getting revived this weekend

I'm not overlooking it. I'm just not going to be surprised if they bullshit their way around it. In a perfect world I'd love to see him erased for good but sadly I don't see that happening due to his profit potential and iconic status. While I do think his utilization in this arc was head and shoulders above RoF, a little of the guy goes a real long way.

[HeroR]

Shenron can’t be used to restore Frieza to life, though. He’s already done that. The only dragon’s that can restore Frieza to life are Porunga, Super Shenron, and Ultimate Shenron. It amazes me that people keep overlooking this detail in Goku’s promise

In a perfect world that would be something they would look at, but knowing how Super is inconsistent they probably will forget about that or just erase Freeza for good anyway.

Actually, Dende's Dragon Balls don't have that limitation, in the same vein as how they can grant up to 3 wishes like the Namek Dragon Balls.

People gotta remember that Dende was a lot better at making wish-granting orbs of ultimate power than Kami was, or at least enough that he could make Earth's set better.

It has the same limits, which is why Goku couldn't be revived on by Shenron at the end of the Cell Games. This was specifically stated before Goku and the others left for the Cell Games.

[HeroR]

Pray tell, how has Super been inconsistent with in-Universe rules from over 30 years ago? I can’t think of a single instance

Apart from everything related to power level scalling?

You've got the Galactic King, Jaco, and a whole patrol, just for one galaxy (when we know there's at least four). Containing at least Earth, we've seen a few planets already, Monaka is a delivery man. Freeza had over 70 planets, had sold god knows how many more, King Cold could have had way more, the sheer number of aliens we've seen. I am not buying it. There's not 28 planets when Shin didn't even look at the Earth for centuries. He could check in with all 28 in a week.

It could have countless galaxies in each universe. It was brought up when Bulma was looking for the Super Dragon Balls. It's inconsistent and there's nothing to make it make sense about it. The Saiyans, Freeza, Beerus and Boo destroying planets isn't a good excuse.

The only thing is, Shin was lying. If there were 100 planets it would still be stupid. We would need at least thousands for that to make sense.

One at a time;

*Power scaling hasn't mattered in the anime since Goku went toe-to-toe with Pikkon shortly after being bested by Perfect Cell at the Cell Games. In the manga, power scaling did matter and Super's manga from Toyotaro hasn't actually been inconsistent with that. People just don't like

*Galactic King, Jaco, and a whole patrol - not an inconsistency. Added later through Minus, and Jaco even stated that he and the Galactic Patrol has other things to do aside from look out for Earth.

*Monaka is a delivery man (instead of being this great fighter, I assume?) - not an inconsistency. Just something you don't like.

*28 Planets - not an inconsistency. Just something people disagree with because it sounds dumb. And the line isn't about there only being 28 Planet's in Universe 7, there's only 28 planets inhabited by mortals. This is consistent with the number of planets seen in Dragon Ball, Z, Super, and GT. Also, I don't know where you got this information that Shin was lying from? Aside from your own deductions or the deductions of fans, can you show me where in the anime, manga, interviews with Toriyama, or guidebooks that Shin was lying about this fact?

In a perfect world that would be something they would look at, but knowing how Super is inconsistent they probably will forget about that or just erase Freeza for good anyway.

Actually, Dende's Dragon Balls don't have that limitation, in the same vein as how they can grant up to 3 wishes like the Namek Dragon Balls.

People gotta remember that Dende was a lot better at making wish-granting orbs of ultimate power than Kami was, or at least enough that he could make Earth's set better.

I don't recall this ever being stated in the anime, manga, interviews with Toriyama, or guidebooks. The closest I can recall is discussing reviving Goku, but he asked a say in things. It was never stated that Shenron would actually be able to grant this wish

The manga isn't that constant with power levels, otherwise we wouldn't have stuff like a tired and weakened Vegeta blowing up two Merged Zamasu's with one energy attack.

[jeffbr92]

It has the same limits, which is why Goku couldn't be revived on by Shenron at the end of the Cell Games. This was specifically stated before Goku and the others left for the Cell Games.

Wasn't that just because he didn't want to be revived?

[GodVegetto91]

For the love of God, there isn't much wrong with Super's powerscaling. People that whine about it usually have no idea what powerscaling is .

Until we see stuff Krillin matching Beerus in an all out fight, you can't complain.

Right, because 17 holding his own against and even push back a near full power Jiren isn’t considered bad powerscaling in your book..

[kn83]

For the love of God, there isn't much wrong with Super's powerscaling. People that whine about it usually have no idea what powerscaling is .

Until we see stuff Krillin matching Beerus in an all out fight, you can't complain.

Right, because 17 holding his own against and even push back a near full power Jiren isn’t considered bad powerscaling in your book..

Jiren didn't use anywhere near his full power until he went shirtless against MUI Goku. And considering the fact that 17 is slightly above Golden Frieza/Normal SSB levels of power, and the fact that 17 didn't do that much better than SSB Vegeta against supressed Jiren, I don't see there being much of a problem.

[Kenneth La Torre]

For the love of God, there isn't much wrong with Super's powerscaling. People that whine about it usually have no idea what powerscaling is .

Until we see stuff Krillin matching Beerus in an all out fight, you can't complain.

Right, because 17 holding his own against and even push back a near full power Jiren isn’t considered bad powerscaling in your book..

Jiren didn't use anywhere near his full power until he went shirtless against MUI Goku. And considering the fact that 17 is slightly above Golden Frieza/Normal SSB levels of power, and the fact that 17 didn't do that much better than SSB Vegeta against supressed Jiren, I don't see there being much of a problem.

The problem is that shirtless jiren wasnt his full power, it was power beyond his full power, he broke through his limits lie every inpurtant character has done in te tournament. He went full power at the end of 129. It was even stated that the beggining of 130 by UI supreme kai that he wondered how goku will fair now against jirens full power.

But android 17 didnt push jiren or did abything remotly serious to him. He caught jiren of guard and scratched him slightly, and that wasnt even full power jiren.

[Nevaeh]

If this takes place after the ToP, how the hell is the villain gonna be so strong? Dragonball is at its peak in terms of characters power. Maybe time travel? Also the art looks amateurish.

He's been training off screen this whole time