"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[sangofe]

For sure they'll continue Super with the manga being labeled "Super".

Super's story will continue for sure, I just don't think there's much room for it to continue for much longer due to how fast they jumped the shark on certain things, such as UI. The power levels and threats we're getting now aren't fit for a long term plan.

I'm sure the power levels won't be a hindrance. They'll make something up. And Super got so much unexploded universes still. What are you suggesting? That they'll actually go with weaker main characters and take the story from there?

[Skar]

Super's story will continue for sure, I just don't think there's much room for it to continue for much longer due to how fast they jumped the shark on certain things, such as UI. The power levels and threats we're getting now aren't fit for a long term plan.

That's another reason why I don't think this revival is intended to last for long. Stories that involve escalating threats to the point that enemies eventually threaten the entire universe or multiverse aren't intended to go on forever. Eventually it becomes repetitive which is something that DB is already suffering from. After SSJG, they had that form combined with SSJ, stacking Kaioken on top of that or mastering it in the manga, a blue Gogeta and Vegetto, and UI. UI holds the distinction of being the only transformation that they didn't learn to activate at will the following saga after it was achieved. To me that could suggest they're holding off on Goku mastering it until the final storyline. Assuming MUI is stronger than the GoDs, the story would comes full circle with Goku surpassing Beerus who started this whole arc in BoG.

I'm sure they COULD continue with more transformations like a SSJ white (SSJ with the power of UI), an UI fusion, or other forms with one of the few hair colors that hasn't been used already but I feel that's only going to more repetitive and more difficult to come up with something original. There are many examples of series deciding to end rather than keep escalating when the author feels it's not adding anything worthwhile which is basically what happened with the original series. Gurren Lagann had bigger and stronger mechas until the final battle for the universe had a multi-galaxy sized robot. The author could've had a universe sized robot in a fight for the fate of a multiverse but he didn't. The Walking Dead comic recently ended and many fans felt it was getting repetitive since the format was basically move to a new community, get attacked by an evil group or horde of zombies, move to a bigger community, get attacked by an even bigger evil group or horde, etc.

In my opinion, the highest stake endgame battle in DBS might be Toriyama's last. If the series does continue without him, I think Toei and Shuiesha will most likely only have shorter spinoffs like they've done since GT. Toei and Shuiesha have been in the industry for decades before DB so they likely have seen other temporary revivals and know they don't last forever. Even Disney has decided to slow down their release of Star Wars content and it's believed the next trilogy won't perform anywhere close to this sequel trilogy especially since the next trilogy won't have all these fan favorites returning.

[Matches Malone]

What are you suggesting? That they'll actually go with weaker main characters and take the story from there?

I think there's a chance, even if small, that they'll press the restart button once Toriyama leaves and start a 3rd continuation that doesn't take Super's events into account. Like how Super currently doesn't take GT's events into account.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

What are you suggesting? That they'll actually go with weaker main characters and take the story from there?

I think there's a chance, even if small, that they'll press the restart button once Toriyama leaves and start a 3rd continuation that doesn't take Super's events into account. Like how Super currently doesn't take GT's events into account.

If they do make a 3rd cotinuity, it really would be cool to see them focus on one of the lesser characters. Between GT and Super Goku has had how many follow up arcs? While DB has always to one extent or another been about watching Goku grow stronger to meet the next big challenge, at this point Goku has hit the upper limit of power. Both Super and GT had to really stretch themselves to find antagonists strong enough (alterante universes, rogue gods, "negative wish energy") to challenge Goku. I don't know how original a third go around is going to feel.

[sangofe]

What are you suggesting? That they'll actually go with weaker main characters and take the story from there?

I think there's a chance, even if small, that they'll press the restart button once Toriyama leaves and start a 3rd continuation that doesn't take Super's events into account. Like how Super currently doesn't take GT's events into account.

That chance is microscopic but could be interesting.

[Matches Malone]

What are you suggesting? That they'll actually go with weaker main characters and take the story from there?

I think there's a chance, even if small, that they'll press the restart button once Toriyama leaves and start a 3rd continuation that doesn't take Super's events into account. Like how Super currently doesn't take GT's events into account.

That chance is microscopic but could be interesting.

I don't think they're that small because of how high things have escalated in Super so far. How much further can things go before they stop making sense ? Are they going to say the multiverse is actually part of an (insert name here) that actually includes multiple multiverses ? How many more Ssj transformations can they stack on each other before things just become laughable ? One of the reasons Toriyama ended the original manga when he did is because he didn't believe things could get crazier than they did against Buu. DB isn't written in a way that allows it to go on forever.

[Dbzfan94]

I think there's a chance, even if small, that they'll press the restart button once Toriyama leaves and start a 3rd continuation that doesn't take Super's events into account. Like how Super currently doesn't take GT's events into account.

That chance is microscopic but could be interesting.

I don't think they're that small because of how high things have escalated in Super so far. How much further can things go before they stop making sense ? Are they going to say the multiverse is actually part of an (insert name here) that actually includes multiple multiverses ? How many more Ssj transformations can they stack on each other before things just become laughable ? One of the reasons Toriyama ended the original manga when he did is because he didn't believe things could get crazier than they did against Buu. DB isn't written in a way that allows it to go on forever.

It already has gotten laughable with the transformations for me. 5 recolors, one of which is just a different shade of blue

[Grimlock]

Are they going to say the multiverse is actually part of an (insert name here) that actually includes multiple multiverses ?

One or Multiple Multiverses are confined within the same and larger Megaverse (the name you're looking for). There's only one Megaverse (per franchise).

By the way, I gave this a thought a while back. The six erased Universes might have had made up another set of Multiverse, considering their numbers wouldn't actually fit with the current "added up 13" system (i.e Universe 7 wouldn't be paired up with Universe 6). I think it's kind of interesting, though having more than one Multiverse doesn't change the perspective in the grand scheme of things, as in Dragon Ball there are no counterparts through this concept.

How many more Ssj transformations can they stack on each other before things just become laughable ?

Isn't laughable already, though?

[Mister_Popo]

Super's story will continue for sure, I just don't think there's much room for it to continue for much longer due to how fast they jumped the shark on certain things, such as UI. The power levels and threats we're getting now aren't fit for a long term plan.

That's another reason why I don't think this revival is intended to last for long. Stories that involve escalating threats to the point that enemies eventually threaten the entire universe or multiverse aren't intended to go on forever. Eventually it becomes repetitive which is something that DB is already suffering from. After SSJG, they had that form combined with SSJ, stacking Kaioken on top of that or mastering it in the manga, a blue Gogeta and Vegetto, and UI. UI holds the distinction of being the only transformation that they didn't learn to activate at will the following saga after it was achieved. To me that could suggest they're holding off on Goku mastering it until the final storyline. Assuming MUI is stronger than the GoDs, the story would comes full circle with Goku surpassing Beerus who started this whole arc in BoG.

I'm sure they COULD continue with more transformations like a SSJ white (SSJ with the power of UI), an UI fusion, or other forms with one of the few hair colors that hasn't been used already but I feel that's only going to more repetitive and more difficult to come up with something original. There are many examples of series deciding to end rather than keep escalating when the author feels it's not adding anything worthwhile which is basically what happened with the original series. Gurren Lagann had bigger and stronger mechas until the final battle for the universe had a multi-galaxy sized robot. The author could've had a universe sized robot in a fight for the fate of a multiverse but he didn't. The Walking Dead comic recently ended and many fans felt it was getting repetitive since the format was basically move to a new community, get attacked by an evil group or horde of zombies, move to a bigger community, get attacked by an even bigger evil group or horde, etc.

In my opinion, the highest stake endgame battle in DBS might be Toriyama's last. If the series does continue without him, I think Toei and Shuiesha will most likely only have shorter spinoffs like they've done since GT. Toei and Shuiesha have been in the industry for decades before DB so they likely have seen other temporary revivals and know they don't last forever. Even Disney has decided to slow down their release of Star Wars content and it's believed the next trilogy won't perform anywhere close to this sequel trilogy especially since the next trilogy won't have all these fan favorites returning.

I'd rather put it the other way around, it's surprising how DB hasn't received a revival for so long in the dark ages while so many other shows were/are getting a revival on a regular bases or kept receiving new content on a regular basis. To state a few recurring 'stories' or 'franchises' besides Dragon Ball in Japan:

- One Piece (non stop for 20 years and stronger than ever in Japan)
- Digimon
- Gundam
- Saint Seiya
- Lupin
- Naruto / Boruto
- Dragon Quest
- Akira
- Sailor Moon
- Shost in the shell
- Evangelion
- Kitaro
- and so on and so ....

This are not all: the list is pretty big actually. The shows keep returning or continuing for a reason, because apparently there is still a demand for it and they stay popular.

This isn't all liniair storytelling ... But: all this anime / manga are getting new adaptations (and have proven to be succesful in the past)

Of course the same typical elements of the show tend to return in the same shounen anime.
Are the people that watch it 'dumb' because of that, and only manageable to fuel a temporary revival- effect with their invest in a certain franchise? Is it because those continuations are are not successful in their own right? Because they are watching the same show for over 20 years, that has the same features, like DB has a tendency to show a lot of transformations or power-ups? That's finger-pointing and elite-narrow-minded thinking in my opinion. The people that watch those shows have a vote, and they given it to stay loyal to their franchise during the years.
In Japan it's even a normal way of giving a tribute to things that have been successful in the past, they give it a new adaptation of continuation to things. Even if it's not done by the orginal creator.

It's the end product that counts, not everything is good, the writing can vary, but it's not automatically bad because it is recurring or has recurring elements in it. The end product and the success of a creative process depends on a lot more things than 'only' nostalgia or recurring elements, although there are obviously nostalgic elements involved. There is no drug that can be injected that acts automatically, it has to be executed in a way it pleases people. The fact there still is a demand for those stories after all those years, although not every content and not every revival is as successful, does prove people still appreciate them and get enjoyment from it overall.

So why couldn't new DB-movies or anime (DB is considered bigger world-wide than the animes mentionned above) stay successful in the long term as well? That doesn't make much sense to me.

[Skar]

I'd rather put it the other way around, it's surprising how DB hasn't received a revival for so long in the dark ages while so many other shows were/are getting a revival on a regular bases or kept receiving new content on a regular basis. To state a few recurring 'stories' or 'franchises' besides Dragon Ball in Japan

Many of the examples you listened aren't the same type of story as Dragonball. Digimon and Gundam usually take place in a different continuity each season. Digimon Adventure was clearly the most popular since it had a sequel and reboot but unlikely it's going to continue forever. Series like NGE and Ghost in the Shell have had adaptions spread across a few decades but less material overall than DB's original run.

DB was a series written by one author with a beginning, middle, and end (technically all this revival content is still in the middle) and everything else being a spin-off. It's not a series with the protagonist stays the same age forever and show them developing and growing throughout their lives. DBS slowed this down to keep everything between this timeskip but there's still a slow progress of time getting closer and closer to EoZ.

A more fair comparison would be to other shonen series wirh the same type of story. One Piece and Naruto/Boruto are still ongoing with the same author. Once the author ends the story, I doubt anyone believes they'll get a revival in a few decades lasting as long as they did originally. Yu Yu Hakusho, Bleach, Zatch Bell, Inuyasha, and other long running shonen series have ended. The second HxH was a reboot like FMA: Brotherhood but also ended. Going by these examples along with the ones you gave, DB might only get short spin-offs every several years at best once the main story is over.

[IntangibleFancy]

When is the likeliest time we'll see any more news about the movie?

[Matches Malone]

It already has gotten laughable with the transformations for me.

Isn't laughable already, though?

Maybe I should've used a different selection of words. Laughable to the point where the majority of fans turn their back on the franchise.

When is the likeliest time we'll see any more news about the movie?

Probably during Jump Festa this December with a 202 Fall release as it will have been 3 years since Broly.

It's surprising how DB hasn't received a revival for so long in the dark ages while so many other shows were/are getting a revival or kept receiving new content. Why couldn't new DB-movies or anime stay successful in the long term as well? That doesn't make much sense to me.

I think the reception of GT scared everyone involved into waiting as long as they did in fear of doing irreversible damage.

[emperior]

When is the likeliest time we'll see any more news about the movie?

The last movie, despite having been announced at Jump Festa, only got a teaser trailer on the 20th of March.
I think around the end of March and April we might get an announcement and teaser trailer if the movie is to be released this year - and I wouldn’t rule out this possibility, as it would be 2 years from Broly similarly to how Resurrection F was 2 years from Battle of Gods.

I wouldn’t listen to whoever is saying 2021 as the earliest, nor would I put any weight to the notion that “Toriyama hasn’t written anything since 2017”. They could be right, they could be wrong. It’s just their assumption.

Goku will be ambassador at the Tokyo 2020 Olympics so maybe releasing the first official trailer and sub-title of the movie during that period could be a smart move. But it’s not like this fact means they will do anything at all.

(Also Naohiro Shintani still hasn’t worked on anything else since Broly. I suspect he has been working on the designs for the next movie all this time)

[IntangibleFancy]

When is the likeliest time we'll see any more news about the movie?

The last movie, despite having been announced at Jump Festa, only got a teaser trailer on the 20th of March.
I think around the end of March and April we might get an announcement and teaser trailer if the movie is to be released this year - and I wouldn’t rule out this possibility, as it would be 2 years from Broly similarly to how Resurrection F was 2 years from Battle of Gods.

I wouldn’t listen to whoever is saying 2021 as the earliest, nor would I put any weight to the notion that “Toriyama hasn’t written anything since 2017”. They could be right, they could be wrong. It’s just their assumption.

Goku will be ambassador at the Tokyo 2020 Olympics so maybe releasing the first official trailer and sub-title of the movie during that period could be a smart move. But it’s not like this fact means they will do anything at all.

(Also Naohiro Shintani still hasn’t worked on anything else since Broly. I suspect he has been working on the designs for the next movie all this time)

I thought Ajay said the Super staff went off working on different things and there's no one left to work on anything revolving Dragon Ball.

[Mister_Popo]

It's surprising how DB hasn't received a revival for so long in the dark ages while so many other shows were/are getting a revival or kept receiving new content. Why couldn't new DB-movies or anime stay successful in the long term as well? That doesn't make much sense to me.

I think the reception of GT scared everyone involved into waiting as long as they did in fear of doing irreversible damage.

It will be different if Toriyama says when he resigns, that he acknowlegdes what comes next as the official continuation.
He didn't actually do that back in the days with GT.
There are people, definitely here at Kanzenshuu amongst the hardcore fans, that would be very sensitive to Toriyamas leaving. And it's understandable, it would be a hit for me too. But it's inevitable it will happen.

At the end you make a choice as a fan. One could no longer exept what comes next, or accept it as a part of the continuity nontheless.
I simply acknowledge DB has different levels of "canonicity" in terms of the creators involvement.
Hardcore 'canon' was the original manga, what we are now getting is basically 'semi-canon', if the continuity after Toriyama resumes, the story goes on, only without him. I just hope, no matter if Goku comes back afterwards, Toriyama writes a fitting ending for him.
Content what comes next, i'll see it on a different level, just like what we have now is on an another level in "canonicity" than the original manga.

We have a very wide fanbase these days. It might get a hit when he quits. But I still think enough people would appreciate more DB after Toriyama, maybe we care the most, but there are a lot out there that will simply go to the movies and watch what comes next without overthinking it.

[Matches Malone]

It will be different if Toriyama says when he resigns, that he acknowledges what comes next as the official continuation. He didn't actually do that back in the days with GT.

We have a very wide fanbase these days. It might get a hit when he quits. But I still think enough people would appreciate more DB after Toriyama, maybe we care the most, but there are a lot out there that will simply go to the movies and watch what comes next without overthinking it.

I think what will matter most when it comes to the stories following Toriyama's departure, regardless of what he says about their level of "canon", is their quality. Him acknowledging GT as "canon" wouldn't have changed the fact that it wasn't a worthy continuation of what came before it. The powers at be need to be sure that everything is at a certain level of quality before moving on.

In terms of the fan base, I think whoever takes over from Toriyama is going to have an uphill battle as a good number of fans will go into it with a negative mindset just because of Toriyama's name not being on it. Toyotaro is probably going to be the next main writer so whatever he comes up with will have to be very good to win fans over.

[Mister_Popo]

It will be different if Toriyama says when he resigns, that he acknowledges what comes next as the official continuation. He didn't actually do that back in the days with GT.

We have a very wide fanbase these days. It might get a hit when he quits. But I still think enough people would appreciate more DB after Toriyama, maybe we care the most, but there are a lot out there that will simply go to the movies and watch what comes next without overthinking it.

I think what will matter most when it comes to the stories following Toriyama's departure, regardless of what he says about their level of "canon", is their quality.

Of course, that's the primary condition. GT also came after a long period of constant DB.
If they keep spreading their releases and guide the quality the story can still go pretty far.
But it didn't help he basically said it was a sidestory. I don't think the franchise would apply that tactic anymore to everything that comes next in the main timeline, not if there is a manga running at the same time and Shueisha is still backing things up.

It will be difficult to somehow mimic Toriyamas style, but it may be feasible by a talented writer with the right feel to it, doing something renewing at the same time. I wouldn't say it's impossible in advance.

[emperior]

When is the likeliest time we'll see any more news about the movie?

The last movie, despite having been announced at Jump Festa, only got a teaser trailer on the 20th of March.
I think around the end of March and April we might get an announcement and teaser trailer if the movie is to be released this year - and I wouldn’t rule out this possibility, as it would be 2 years from Broly similarly to how Resurrection F was 2 years from Battle of Gods.

I wouldn’t listen to whoever is saying 2021 as the earliest, nor would I put any weight to the notion that “Toriyama hasn’t written anything since 2017”. They could be right, they could be wrong. It’s just their assumption.

Goku will be ambassador at the Tokyo 2020 Olympics so maybe releasing the first official trailer and sub-title of the movie during that period could be a smart move. But it’s not like this fact means they will do anything at all.

(Also Naohiro Shintani still hasn’t worked on anything else since Broly. I suspect he has been working on the designs for the next movie all this time)

I thought Ajay said the Super staff went off working on different things and there's no one left to work on anything revolving Dragon Ball.

I don’t remember him ever stating such a thing, especially because even if some animators like Takahashi will probably be on Dragon Quest it doesn’t mean they won’t be able to also work on the movie.
Also Shida, for example, didn’t participate in Stampede so it’s not like if there’s no Takahashi there’s no Dragon Ball.

Now, things would be different if it was announced that Naohiro Shintani would work on another show, considering he will 100% be on the next movie as the character designer. But, from what I remember, Ajay confirmed on Twitter than Shintani is not CD for Dragon Quest and we know he’s also not on Digimon’s main staff.

[IntangibleFancy]

The last movie, despite having been announced at Jump Festa, only got a teaser trailer on the 20th of March.
I think around the end of March and April we might get an announcement and teaser trailer if the movie is to be released this year - and I wouldn’t rule out this possibility, as it would be 2 years from Broly similarly to how Resurrection F was 2 years from Battle of Gods.

I wouldn’t listen to whoever is saying 2021 as the earliest, nor would I put any weight to the notion that “Toriyama hasn’t written anything since 2017”. They could be right, they could be wrong. It’s just their assumption.

Goku will be ambassador at the Tokyo 2020 Olympics so maybe releasing the first official trailer and sub-title of the movie during that period could be a smart move. But it’s not like this fact means they will do anything at all.

(Also Naohiro Shintani still hasn’t worked on anything else since Broly. I suspect he has been working on the designs for the next movie all this time)

I thought Ajay said the Super staff went off working on different things and there's no one left to work on anything revolving Dragon Ball.

I don’t remember him ever stating such a thing, especially because even if some animators like Takahashi will probably be on Dragon Quest it doesn’t mean they won’t be able to also work on the movie.
Also Shida, for example, didn’t participate in Stampede so it’s not like if there’s no Takahashi there’s no Dragon Ball.

Now, things would be different if it was announced that Naohiro Shintani would work on another show, considering he will 100% be on the next movie as the character designer. But, from what I remember, Ajay confirmed on Twitter than Shintani is not CD for Dragon Quest and we know he’s also not on Digimon’s main staff.

Correct on the Dragon Quest front - Karasawa is directing. Though we know where Nakamura was - he was an assistant director on One Piece Stampede. Dunno where he's gone now, though.

There are some other regular Super staff on DQ in a major role, too. Shintani isn't the character designer, I can say that much, though. Doesn't mean he isn't working on it, but yeah, he's not in a major role that I'm aware of.

But yeah, there's no Super series coming this year unless it's outsourced and they kill Heroes. There literally aren't any staff left. Bye bye dreams.

[emperior]

I doubt they wouldn’t find staff for a movie. What Ajay was referring to was for a TV show, which is quite more staff demanding.
For a movie they can borrow staff from their other shows.