"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Scsigs]

Is this you're answer to everything you don't agree with ?

It is for Kingdom Hearts fans who quote Roxas' answer to Riku in KHII, so why not?

I've never played any of them so I wouldn't know that.

It's just a joke in the fandom, I think, to explain away the more complicated aspects of the plots that don't make any sense, or aren't explained that well. Roxas shouted "shut up" at Riku when Riku asked him why he had a keyblade

[Kinokima]

Vegeta fanboys are the most delusional. Toppo isn't fighting at full power either. Also Vegeta will only job to Jiren. Vegeta is hiding nothing. He's just being his cocky self. It's just desperate wishes from Vegeta fanboys for the Prince of No One to not get embarrassed by Jiren but we know it's going to happen.

Please show me the last time there was a gap in power to the extent of UI Goku and the rest of the main characters for any extended period of time. (Hint: it's not possible.)

Again, if Vegeta doesn't have a new form, or hasnt reached a new level of SSB then it's just very bad writing. Because after this arc, there are going to be more threats on the level of Jiren, so if Goku is the only one who can stand up to that level of antagonist then there is really no point for any of the other characters to be involved in the story at all.

If it's not Vegeta who gets a new transformation then it has to be Gohan. One of those two HAS to close the gap with Goku before this tournament is finished.

Looking at IndieBooToo's posts he just hates Vegeta. I don't know if Vegeta or Gohan will get a new power-up but it does make sense that both these characters eventually will even if it is not in this story arc. That's just good writing. It can't only be Goku who moves forward in the story.

I mean he talks like Vegeta is a real person and isn't at the mercy of the writing. Yeah Vegeta's only purpose in the story is to get embarrassed. Whether you like Vegeta or not that is just bad writing. And its the same with Gohan, Piccolo, the Androids, etc. Now of course the writers may not do any of the above characters justice. That is always a possibility we already saw that with Tien. So its very possible that all these characters won't get a good ending in this arc. But I think even with Tien the writers probably mistakenly thought they gave him an okay ending. I don't think they thought ha ha we are going to give a Tien a bad ending.

So whether fans of the characters are satisfied or not at the characters endings I highly doubt Vegeta's purpose is to Job to Jiren. And the fact of the matter is we already know exactly how strong Jiren is so that completely missed the point of what Jobbing is (as dumb as that term is). Vegeta despite wanting to may never even fight Jiren. But if he does and if he loses I doubt it will just to be embarrassed. Again I am missing what the point of that will be except bad wring or some fans just hating on characters as the above.

And for the record Vegeta has been doing very well in this tournament. Whether he can beat Jiren is another matter entirely (who the hell can besides Goku & even he didn't manage it) but he is not struggling against Toppo. In fact they are pretty much equal. So while Vegeta is not "Number 1" as he claims he is also not completely out of his depth either.

[namekiansaiyan]

Vegeta fanboys are the most delusional. Toppo isn't fighting at full power either. Also Vegeta will only job to Jiren. Vegeta is hiding nothing. He's just being his cocky self. It's just desperate wishes from Vegeta fanboys for the Prince of No One to not get embarrassed by Jiren but we know it's going to happen.

Please show me the last time there was a gap in power to the extent of UI Goku and the rest of the main characters for any extended period of time. (Hint: it's not possible.)

Again, if Vegeta doesn't have a new form, or hasnt reached a new level of SSB then it's just very bad writing. Because after this arc, there are going to be more threats on the level of Jiren, so if Goku is the only one who can stand up to that level of antagonist then there is really no point for any of the other characters to be involved in the story at all.

If it's not Vegeta who gets a new transformation then it has to be Gohan. One of those two HAS to close the gap with Goku before this tournament is finished.

Looking at IndieBooToo's posts he just hates Vegeta. I don't know if Vegeta or Gohan will get a new power-up but it does make sense that both these characters eventually will even if it is not in this story arc. That's just good writing. It can't only be Goku who moves forward in the story.

I mean he talks like Vegeta is a real person and isn't at the mercy of the writing. Yeah Vegeta's only purpose in the story is to get embarrassed. Whether you like Vegeta or not that is just bad writing. And its the same with Gohan, Piccolo, the Androids, etc. Now of course the writers may not do any of the above characters justice. That is always a possibility we already saw that with Tien. So its very possible that all these characters won't get a good ending in this arc. But I think even with Tien the writers probably mistakenly thought they gave him an okay ending. I don't think they thought ha ha we are going to give a Tien a bad ending.

So whether fans of the characters are satisfied or not at the characters endings I highly doubt Vegeta's purpose is to Job to Jiren. And the fact of the matter is we already know exactly how strong Jiren is so that completely missed the point of what Jobbing is (as dumb as that term is). Vegeta despite wanting to may never even fight Jiren. But if he does and if he loses I doubt it will just to be embarrassed. Again I am missing what the point of that will be except bad wring or some fans just hating on characters as the above.

And for the record Vegeta has been doing very well in this tournament. Whether he can beat Jiren is another matter entirely (who the hell can besides Goku & even he didn't manage it) but he is not struggling against Toppo. In fact they are pretty much equal. So while Vegeta is not "Number 1" as he claims he is also not completely out of his depth either.

Vegeta will face Jiren if he beats Toppo because there will be no one to stop him.

I think both Tien and Krillin went out looking like idiots and Toei know it as both of them were embarrased. Roshu has been extremely lucky but the rest will probably be humiliated anyway.

[Kinokima]

Vegeta will face Jiren if he beats Toppo because there will be no one to stop him.

I think both Tien and Krillin went out looking like idiots and Toei know it as both both of them were embarrased.

I don't necessarily think that is true. It may be what Vegeta wants but that doesn't mean Jiren will fight him or the story will move in that direction.

I know some people think if Vegeta defeats Toppo, Jiren will jump in. But I am not really sure Jiren cares about Toppo. And I am still not sure the Toppo/Vegeta fight will finish.

[namekiansaiyan]

Vegeta will face Jiren if he beats Toppo because there will be no one to stop him.

I think both Tien and Krillin went out looking like idiots and Toei know it as both both of them were embarrased.

I don't necessarily think that is true. It may be what Vegeta wants but that doesn't mean Jiren will fight him or the story will move in that direction.

I know some people think if Vegeta defeats Toppo, Jiren will jump in. But I am not really sure Jiren cares about Toppo. And I am still not sure the Toppo/Vegeta fight will finish.

I know you don't really like Toppo vs Vegeta but Vegeta does not really have many potential opponents apart from Universe 3 as it looks like Universe 2 and 4 are going to be taken by others.

[Kinokima]

Vegeta will face Jiren if he beats Toppo because there will be no one to stop him.

I think both Tien and Krillin went out looking like idiots and Toei know it as both both of them were embarrased.

I don't necessarily think that is true. It may be what Vegeta wants but that doesn't mean Jiren will fight him or the story will move in that direction.

I know some people think if Vegeta defeats Toppo, Jiren will jump in. But I am not really sure Jiren cares about Toppo. And I am still not sure the Toppo/Vegeta fight will finish.

I know you don't really like Toppo vs Vegeta but Vegeta does not really have many potential opponents apart from Universe 3 as it looks like Universe 2 and 4 are going to be taken by others.

You are wrong I DO LIKE Toppo Vs Vegeta very much but I don't like fights that happen as cuts within other episodes. And I do think a Vegeta vs Toppo fights deserves much better than its getting so far.

And so far no fight that has started that way has actually finished. Maybe this one will but I am just doubtful.

[namekiansaiyan]

I don't necessarily think that is true. It may be what Vegeta wants but that doesn't mean Jiren will fight him or the story will move in that direction.

I know some people think if Vegeta defeats Toppo, Jiren will jump in. But I am not really sure Jiren cares about Toppo. And I am still not sure the Toppo/Vegeta fight will finish.

I know you don't really like Toppo vs Vegeta but Vegeta does not really have many potential opponents apart from Universe 3 as it looks like Universe 2 and 4 are going to be taken by others.

You are wrong I DO LIKE Toppo Vs Vegeta very much but I don't like fights that happen as cuts within other episodes. And I do think a Vegeta vs Toppo fights deserves much better than its getting so far.

And so far no fight that has started that way has actually finished. Maybe this one will but I am just doubtful.

No other fight has started this way apart from Piccolo and Gohan vs Saonel and Pilina.

I feel the same with Saonel and Pilina as they are the first time we are seeing Universe 6 Namekians.

If both fights get a focused episode then you will get the focused episode and the small scenes for the fights.

[HeroR]

Looking at IndieBooToo's posts he just hates Vegeta. I don't know if Vegeta or Gohan will get a new power-up but it does make sense that both these characters eventually will even if it is not in this story arc. That's just good writing. It can't only be Goku who moves forward in the story.

I mean he talks like Vegeta is a real person and isn't at the mercy of the writing. Yeah Vegeta's only purpose in the story is to get embarrassed. Whether you like Vegeta or not that is just bad writing. And its the same with Gohan, Piccolo, the Androids, etc. Now of course the writers may not do any of the above characters justice. That is always a possibility we already saw that with Tien. So its very possible that all these characters won't get a good ending in this arc. But I think even with Tien the writers probably mistakenly thought they gave him an okay ending. I don't think they thought ha ha we are going to give a Tien a bad ending.

So whether fans of the characters are satisfied or not at the characters endings I highly doubt Vegeta's purpose is to Job to Jiren. And the fact of the matter is we already know exactly how strong Jiren is so that completely missed the point of what Jobbing is (as dumb as that term is). Vegeta despite wanting to may never even fight Jiren. But if he does and if he loses I doubt it will just to be embarrassed. Again I am missing what the point of that will be except bad wring or some fans just hating on characters as the above.

And for the record Vegeta has been doing very well in this tournament. Whether he can beat Jiren is another matter entirely (who the hell can besides Goku & even he didn't manage it) but he is not struggling against Toppo. In fact they are pretty much equal. So while Vegeta is not "Number 1" as he claims he is also not completely out of his depth either.

Every character is at the 'mercy of the writer' since this is fiction and Vegeta "only purpose in the story is to get embarrassed", isn't 'bad writing'. That is just writing you don't like.

[Kinokima]

Looking at IndieBooToo's posts he just hates Vegeta. I don't know if Vegeta or Gohan will get a new power-up but it does make sense that both these characters eventually will even if it is not in this story arc. That's just good writing. It can't only be Goku who moves forward in the story.

I mean he talks like Vegeta is a real person and isn't at the mercy of the writing. Yeah Vegeta's only purpose in the story is to get embarrassed. Whether you like Vegeta or not that is just bad writing. And its the same with Gohan, Piccolo, the Androids, etc. Now of course the writers may not do any of the above characters justice. That is always a possibility we already saw that with Tien. So its very possible that all these characters won't get a good ending in this arc. But I think even with Tien the writers probably mistakenly thought they gave him an okay ending. I don't think they thought ha ha we are going to give a Tien a bad ending.

So whether fans of the characters are satisfied or not at the characters endings I highly doubt Vegeta's purpose is to Job to Jiren. And the fact of the matter is we already know exactly how strong Jiren is so that completely missed the point of what Jobbing is (as dumb as that term is). Vegeta despite wanting to may never even fight Jiren. But if he does and if he loses I doubt it will just to be embarrassed. Again I am missing what the point of that will be except bad wring or some fans just hating on characters as the above.

And for the record Vegeta has been doing very well in this tournament. Whether he can beat Jiren is another matter entirely (who the hell can besides Goku & even he didn't manage it) but he is not struggling against Toppo. In fact they are pretty much equal. So while Vegeta is not "Number 1" as he claims he is also not completely out of his depth either.

Every character is at the 'mercy of the writer' since this is fiction and Vegeta "only purpose in the story is to get embarrassed", isn't 'bad writing'. That is just writing you don't like.

The only purpose for any character to get embarrassed is bad writing plain and simple. I am not sure how you can argue that is good writing except you want to be purposely argumentative. Or you are going to argue with me that the writers have some vindictive streak against the characters where they say yes okay let’s embarrass such and such character today that is their purpose. I guess you never heard of characters being full rounded? What exactly is the point you are trying to make?

And if you think I mean a character losing= embarrassed then you couldn’t be further from the truth. Characters lose more fights than they win in Dragon Ball. It doesn’t mean that by losing the point is to embarrass them. The fact that people can’t get this...

[HeroR]

The only purpose for any character to get embarrassed is bad writing plain and simple. I am not sure how you can argue that is good writing except you want to be purposely argumentative. Or you are going to argue with me that the writers have some vindictive streak against the characters where they say yes okay let’s embarrass such and such character today that is their purpose. I guess you never heard of characters being full rounded? What exactly is the point you are trying to make?

And if you think I mean a character losing= embarrassed then you couldn’t be further from the truth. Characters lose more fights than they win in Dragon Ball. It doesn’t mean that by losing the point is to embarrass them. The fact that people can’t get this...

Nope. If the only purpose of a character is to be embarrassed, it's called comic relief or the butt monkey. No one calls Charlie Brown 'bad writing' despite most of it being center around making Charlie Brown's life a living hell.

I am also not talking about losing streak either so much as narrative. Vegeta is the eternal loser to Goku, except when he gets a bone now and then. That isn't 'bad writer', that is just his place in the story. Just like Charlie Brown is the eternal loser or Tom is the eternal loser to Jerry except once every blue moon. You can dislike this type of writing, but it isn't objectively 'bad writing'.

And even in Dragon Ball, the narrative doesn't go out of its way to embarrass Vegeta unless he really, really deserves it, like most of the Android/Cell and Buu Saga. In Super, Vegeta is treated no worst than the rest of the cast who have their humiliating or embarrassing moments. In fact, the only cast member not humiliated and embarrass was Future Trunks, whose personal woes and failings were played for drama instead of laughs.

[Kinokima]

The only purpose for any character to get embarrassed is bad writing plain and simple. I am not sure how you can argue that is good writing except you want to be purposely argumentative. Or you are going to argue with me that the writers have some vindictive streak against the characters where they say yes okay let’s embarrass such and such character today that is their purpose. I guess you never heard of characters being full rounded? What exactly is the point you are trying to make?

And if you think I mean a character losing= embarrassed then you couldn’t be further from the truth. Characters lose more fights than they win in Dragon Ball. It doesn’t mean that by losing the point is to embarrass them. The fact that people can’t get this...

Nope. If the only purpose of a character is to be embarrassed, it's called comic relief or the butt monkey. No one calls Charlie Brown 'bad writing' despite most of it being center around making Charlie Brown's life a living hell.

I am also not talking about losing streak either so much as narrative. Vegeta is the eternal loser to Goku, except when he gets a bone now and then. That isn't 'bad writer', that is just his place in the story. Just like Charlie Brown is the eternal loser or Tom is the eternal loser to Jerry except once every blue moon. You can dislike this type of writing, but it isn't objectively 'bad writing'.

And even in Dragon Ball, the narrative doesn't go out of its way to embarrass Vegeta unless he really, really deserves it, like most of the Android/Cell and Buu Saga. In Super, Vegeta is treated no worst than the rest of the cast who have their humiliating or embarrassing moments. In fact, the only cast member not humiliated and embarrass was Future Trunks, whose personal woes and failings were played for drama instead of laughs.

I am sorry it seems yon missed my point I was originally trying to make.

Dragon Ball has plenty of comedy moments sure but Vegeta is not a “butt monkey” or a comic relief character. Albeit every character in Dragon Ball has gags used against them.

Vegeta losing to Arale was a gag and meant to be funny. Vegeta losing in the TOP however I can’t see as a funny moment.

Vegeta is always going to be a step behind Goku. But his purpose as a character is not to lose to Goku. He’s had his own development and character journey. Goku as the main character was a major influence on who Vegeta is today and besides Bulma continues to be the character who will always have the biggest impact on him.

And whereas in the past yes Vegeta was used as a plot device to show how strong villains were (and also to exemplify the mistakes Vegeta made in those arcs). I am at a loss why they would need to repeat that storyline here.

1) Vegeta may very well lose to Jiren but it won’t be to show how strong Jiren is because well we (the audience) already knows his strength & Power.

2) Certain writers may be over doing Vegeta’s arrogance with him saying “he’s the best” at times but besides words so far he hasn’t done anything to put his team in danger. It’s not at all a repeat of past mistakes. And there are also times in the tournament when he shows his caring side. So it’s not the same...


I don’t know where this arc will take Vegeta. I very much expect he will lose but that doesn’t mean I think his sole purpose (or any of the other U7 characters who end up losing) in this arc is to have an embarrassing end. That was my point. And no where did I say that Vegeta is treated worse than any other character. I am not complaining how the story treats Vegeta in comparison. I am not complaining at all in fact (at least not in this case) because I have more faith in the writers than that. What I am saying would be bad writing is how certain fans see the story & characters not what I feel the writers actually intend.

[HeroR]

I am sorry it seems yon missed my point I was originally trying to make.

Dragon Ball has plenty of comedy moments sure but Vegeta is not a “butt monkey” or a comic relief character. Albeit every character in Dragon Ball has gags used against them.

Vegeta losing to Arale was a gag and meant to be funny. Vegeta losing in the TOP however I can’t see as a funny moment.

Vegeta is always going to be a step behind Goku. But his purpose as a character is not to lose to Goku. He’s had his own development and character journey. Goku as the main character was a major influence on who Vegeta is today and besides Bulma continues to be the character who will always have the biggest impact on him.

And whereas in the past yes Vegeta was used as a plot device to show how strong villains were (and also to exemplify the mistakes Vegeta made in those arcs). I am at a loss why they would need to repeat that storyline here.

1) Vegeta may very well lose to Jiren but it won’t be to show how strong Jiren is because well we (the audience) already knows his strength & Power.

2) Certain writers may be over doing Vegeta’s arrogance with him saying “he’s the best” at times but besides words so far he hasn’t done anything to put his team in danger. It’s not at all a repeat of past mistakes. And there are also times in the tournament when he shows his caring side. So it’s not the same...


I don’t know where this arc will take Vegeta. I very much expect he will lose but that doesn’t mean I think his sole purpose (or any of the other U7 characters who end up losing) in this arc is to have an embarrassing end. That was my point. And no where did I say that Vegeta is treated worse than any other character. I am not complaining how the story treats Vegeta in comparison. I am not complaining at all in fact (at least not in this case) because I have more faith in the writers than that. What I am saying would be bad writing is how certain fans see the story & characters not what I feel the writers actually intend.

Everyone in Dragon Ball plays the butt monkey and comic relief role. Beerus is the God of Destruction, and had more than a few comic relief/butt monkey moments. The same with Goku who is the main character. So Vegeta being humiliated and embarrass isn't limited to him. Yes, there are characters like Krillin and Yamcha who is mostly there to be funny and to be humiliated, but it isn't the show being mean spirited.

It depends how Vegeta loses in the TOP. Krillin losing was treated as humor, especially how Beerus, Shin, 17, and 18 reacted to it. It could also be a funny situation treated as drama, like Goku getting down by a laser in Resurrection 'F', which was funny in a 'you idiot' moment.

His purpose is to be the eternal loser to Goku, as in as Toppo put it 'second fiddle'. The reason why he's a loser here compared to say Piccolo and Tien, is that Vegeta still takes his rivalry with Goku seriously while Piccolo and Tien really don't, despite still training to surpassed Goku one day. In other words, Vegeta will remain the eternal loser to Goku as long as his development depends on Goku and he will stopped being the eternal loser when his development stops being depending on Goku like Piccolo or even Tien. Even Whis points out that Vegeta is too obsessed with Goku and it's holding him back. Goku's development and story isn't depended on Vegeta. Vegeta could die tomorrow and it wouldn't really effect Goku.

If Vegeta lose to Jiren, its because a) Jiren finally get serious and takes out the strong people or b) Vegeta overestimated himself yet again and gets ring out.

All the writer have written Vegeta as arrogance and if he overestimate himself and get rings out, that hurts his team since this tournament is won by numbers. In other words, he put his team in danger in 112 when he tried to challenged Jiren, so U7 should be thankful that Toppo stopped him. Showing that he cares doesn't mean he isn't repeating the same mistakes that screws him over, so I am not sure why Vegeta fans keep putting these two things together.

It isn't 'bad writing' as you put it that the fans think Vegeta will meet a humiliating end. They're just going by Vegeta's record that he tends to get a crushing defeat at least once every story arc.

[Kinokima]

Everyone in Dragon Ball plays the butt monkey and comic relief role. Beerus is the God of Destruction, and had more than a few comic relief/butt monkey moments. The same with Goku who is the main character. So Vegeta being humiliated and embarrass isn't limited to him. Yes, there are characters like Krillin and Yamcha who is mostly there to be funny and to be humiliated, but it isn't the show being mean spirited.

Again I already said every character has gags used against them including Vegeta. But there is a difference when a scene is meant to be comedy and it’s not. And this arc while having comedy moments is meant to be more dramatic. So do I think that Vegeta’s loss is going to be comedy well no I don’t.

His purpose is to be the eternal loser to Goku, as in as Toppo put it 'second fiddle'. The reason why he's a loser here compared to say Piccolo and Tien, is that Vegeta still takes his rivalry with Goku seriously while Piccolo and Tien really don't, despite still training to surpassed Goku one day. In other words, Vegeta will remain the eternal loser to Goku as long as his development depends on Goku and he will stopped being the eternal loser when his development stops being depending on Goku like Piccolo or even Tien. Even Whis points out that Vegeta is too obsessed with Goku and it's holding him back.

Goku's development and story isn't depended on Vegeta. Vegeta could die tomorrow and it wouldn't really effect Goku.

Of course Goku’s development and story isn’t dependent on Vegeta. That is your argument? Goku is the main fricking character of the story. The plot revolves around him.

Vegeta being centered around Goku is actually what keeps him relevant to the story. Since when has Tien been relevant?

Piccolo’s relevance is actually tied more to Gohan than Goku. And while I know some fans don’t like that, the connections between characters is what keeps their importance in the story.

Vegeta trying to surpass Goku has actually made him stronger. Perhaps if he stopped trying to surpass Goku he would actually surpass him. But as the story is never going to go there Vegeta being one or two steps behind Goku is not a bad thing to me. And as it is he is much closer to Goku than Piccolo or especially Tien.

And Goku would certainly care if Vegeta died just like he would care if any of his friends died. If you think Vegeta is not important to Goku then you are wrong.

All the writer have written Vegeta as arrogance and if he overestimate himself and get rings out, that hurts his team since this tournament is won by numbers. In other words, he put his team in danger in 112 when he tried to challenged Jiren, so U7 should be thankful that Toppo stopped him. Showing that he cares doesn't mean he isn't repeating the same mistakes that screws him over, so I am not sure why Vegeta fans keep putting these two things together.

So how exactly is Goku fighting Jiren any different and not putting the team in danger as you say? Vegeta just wants to fight the strongest like Goku does.

Apparently it is okay for Goku to challenge someone stronger than him this early in the tournament but not Vegeta. And that just means Vegeta needs to be embarrassed to show his place?

Goku only has the chance Vegeta doesn’t because Goku is the main character. But Vegeta isn’t supposed to know that.

And Vegeta knows exactly how strong Jiren and Goku are so he isn’t challenging him blind. I am not saying it would be the smartest move but Vegeta is also Saiyajin & wants to fight the strongest & give it his all. He can’t help himself.

And while Vegeta may be arrogant in his words there are moments throughout the arc that shows he cares more than he lets on (Cabba, Roshi) so this arc may not choose to focus on his words but his actions. I 100% think he will lose this arc but I think he will do good before he does. You are saying the fact that he cares is not important but I disagree. It shows there is something behind Vegeta’s facade.

It isn't 'bad writing' as you put it that the fans think Vegeta will meet a humiliating end. They're just going by Vegeta's record that he tends to get a crushing defeat at least once every story arc.

Except in Super he hasn’t gotten a crushing defeat in every storyline so you are going by things that happened in Z and they weren’t meant just humiliate but to humble. It’s part of character development. That’s good writing. Just losing to embarras a character is not.

Even when he lost against Hit which was to show Hit’s power. He was upset by it but Hit praised Vegeta’s tenacity. So even then it wasn’t meant as strictly a humiliating defeat.

[namekiansaiyan]

Piccolo’s relevance is actually tied more to Gohan than Goku. And while I know some fans don’t like that, the connections between characters is what keeps their importance in the story.

Did Piccolo need Gohan to be in RoF? No.
Did Piccolo need Gohan to be in the Champa arc? No.
Did Piccolo need Gohan to show Trunks the Mafuba? No.
Did Piccolo need Gohan to fight in the Tournament of Power? No.
Will Piccolo need Gohan in the future? Probably No.

Did Gohan need Piccolo? Yes, to train him.

If you think Vegeta is not important to Goku then you are wrong.

The only important person to Goku is his next powerful opponent. He cares about everyone but Goku doesn't care how strong Vegeta gets unless he gets more stronger than him.

[Kinokima]

Piccolo’s relevance is actually tied more to Gohan than Goku. And while I know some fans don’t like that, the connections between characters is what keeps their importance in the story.

Did Piccolo need Gohan to be in RoF? No.
Did Piccolo need Gohan to be in the Champa arc? No.
Did Piccolo need Gohan to show Trunks the Mafuba? No.
Did Piccolo need Gohan to fight in the Tournament of Power? No.
Will Piccolo need Gohan in the future? Probably No.

Did Gohan need Piccolo? Yes, to train him.

Not sure why you are getting so upset. Yes I know god forbid I say Piccolo is connected to the story through Gohan.

That doesn’t mean every scene with Piccolo’s is about Gohan or every scene with Vegeta is about Goku. But those connections do keep them relevant to the story which as I pointed out Tien does not really have.

[namekiansaiyan]

Piccolo’s relevance is actually tied more to Gohan than Goku. And while I know some fans don’t like that, the connections between characters is what keeps their importance in the story.

Did Piccolo need Gohan to be in RoF? No.
Did Piccolo need Gohan to be in the Champa arc? No.
Did Piccolo need Gohan to show Trunks the Mafuba? No.
Did Piccolo need Gohan to fight in the Tournament of Power? No.
Will Piccolo need Gohan in the future? Probably No.

Did Gohan need Piccolo? Yes, to train him.

Not sure why you are getting so upset. Yes I know god forbid I say Piccolo is connected to the story through Gohan.

That doesn’t mean every scene with Piccolo’s is about Gohan or every scene with Vegeta is about Goku. But those connections do keep them relevant to the story which as I pointed out Tien does not really have.

I am not getting upset and I thought a list would be the easiest way to explain.

Vegeta lives in his own delusional world that is centred on Goku just like HeroR said and it is only because Goku is the number 1 Saiyan. Vegeta cause his own pain and embarrassment.

Tien is not involved as much simply because he is not as strong as most other characters.

[Kinokima]

Did Piccolo need Gohan to be in RoF? No.
Did Piccolo need Gohan to be in the Champa arc? No.
Did Piccolo need Gohan to show Trunks the Mafuba? No.
Did Piccolo need Gohan to fight in the Tournament of Power? No.
Will Piccolo need Gohan in the future? Probably No.

Did Gohan need Piccolo? Yes, to train him.

Not sure why you are getting so upset. Yes I know god forbid I say Piccolo is connected to the story through Gohan.

That doesn’t mean every scene with Piccolo’s is about Gohan or every scene with Vegeta is about Goku. But those connections do keep them relevant to the story which as I pointed out Tien does not really have.

I am not getting upset and I thought a list would be the easiest way to explain.

Vegeta lives in his own delusional world that is centred on Goku just like HeroR said and it is only because Goku is the number 1 Saiyan. Vegeta cause his own pain and embarrassment.

Tien is not involved as much simply because he is not as strong as most other characters.

That “delusional” world as you call that is centered around Goku it is what makes Vegeta as strong as he is.

And it’s not like Goku never followed Vegeta. Last time I checked Vegeta went to train with Whis & Beerus first to say that Goku doesn’t care about Vegeta is also wrong. Or did I imagine Goku breaking that wall when he heard.

Goku also wanted Vegeta to come train with him when Bulma was pregnant. And actually it shows Vegeta can step away from Goku & training when it comes to his family.


So things are not as black and white as people are making them out to be when it comes to the relationship between Goku & Vegeta.

[Kanassa]

And it’s not like Goku never followed Vegeta. Last time I checked Vegeta went to train with Whis & Beerus first to say that Goku doesn’t care about Vegeta is also wrong.

Goku freak out about not going isn't because Vegeta is getting stronger, he freaks out because it means he's not getting special training. Replace Vegeta with anyone else and Goku would still be annoyed that he wasn't told about Whis handing out training sessions. Goku doesn't see people as rivals, he see's people as challenges. He always wants to be stronger because breaking his limitations and progressing is his passion.

[Kinokima]

And it’s not like Goku never followed Vegeta. Last time I checked Vegeta went to train with Whis & Beerus first to say that Goku doesn’t care about Vegeta is also wrong.

Goku freak out about not going isn't because Vegeta is getting stronger, he freaks out because it means he's not getting special training. Replace Vegeta with anyone else and Goku would still be annoyed that he wasn't told about Whis handing out training sessions. Goku doesn't see people as rivals, he see's people as challenges. He always wants to be stronger because breaking his limitations and progressing is his passion.

Maybe so but he still wants Vegeta to train with him. He wanted Vegeta to train with him in the RSOAT before the U6 tournament. He wanted Vegeta to train with him when Vegeta wanted to stay with Bulma. So to say Goku doesn't care at all about Vegeta is completely false.

I am not saying he sees Vegeta as his rival in the way Vegeta sees Goku as a rival. But it also doesn't mean he doesn't acknowledge Vegeta or that Vegeta is absolutely nothing to him in terms of fighting.

[mfwlegend3]

Recent image of Toriyama taken this month. He definitely loves himself some tracksuits.
[spoiler][/spoiler]