"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Ki Breaker]

Going with the transformation being anime only until confirmed otherwise..
These guys like to make flashy stuff and transformations of any kind are just that..

That's weird since the manga had its own exclusive transformation in given Vegeta Super Saiyan God and then later Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

SSG isn't a new form invented out of thin air for funzies nor did it boost him above Goku or his current blue form him any way, basically what I am gonna going for is the transformations ( or powerups ) in the manga come with solid reasoning behind it while the anime is up in the air with everything..

Either way, I merely pointed out my doubts of vegeta powerup being a thing in both media, would rather avoid the same ol manga vs anime discussion althougher if you don't mind mate..

[Pannaliciour]

A question: That promo poster of Goku, just before he fought Jiren in episode 109 and 110. (Shirtless and blue with some red aura) With the text "the works of the gods ends here" and "something bad is going to happen"

Will this still happen of was that for the episode 109 and 110?

[HeroR]

[
SSG isn't a new form invented out of thin air for funzies nor did it boost him above Goku or his current blue form him any way, basically what I am gonna going for is the transformations ( or powerups ) in the manga come with solid reasoning behind it while the anime is up in the air with everything..

Either way, I merely pointed out my doubts of vegeta powerup being a thing in both media, would rather avoid the same ol manga vs anime discussion althougher if you don't mind mate..

It kinda is for Vegeta. And the manga never gave a solid reason for Vegeta having Super Saiyan God. He just got it.

Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan came out of nowhere and the reasoning behind it makes little sense.

[Noah]

It kinda is for Vegeta. And the manga never gave a solid reason for Vegeta having Super Saiyan God. He just got it. Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan came out of nowhere and the reasoning behind it makes little sense.

Really? I thought the manga was flawless

[BWri]

Or u7 trying to escape where erased things go.

Hopefully not this because that's where *shudders* Universe 6 Saiyans are..

Along with other amazing characters of top. Let's hope they do the remaining 4 universes better.

This would actually be the most interesting idea for an arc that you could do in DBS. Think about it. This would be the same place that those other erased universes are and who knows what the hell else Zeno has erased over the years, *gasp* , including universal Zamasu. And because of the implied complexity of presenting something like that, it'll never see reality ... no pun intended.

[Spider-Man]

Hopefully not this because that's where *shudders* Universe 6 Saiyans are..

Along with other amazing characters of top. Let's hope they do the remaining 4 universes better.

This would actually be the most interesting idea for an arc that you could do in DBS. Think about it. This would be the same place that those other erased universes are and who knows what the hell else Zeno has erased over the years, *gasp* , including universal Zamasu. And because of the implied complexity of presenting something like that, it'll never see reality ... no pun intended.

This sounds like a good idea rather than them bringing them back in the same arc that they got erased but I wouldn't mind if they get killed off real.

It kinda is for Vegeta. And the manga never gave a solid reason for Vegeta having Super Saiyan God. He just got it. Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan came out of nowhere and the reasoning behind it makes little sense.

Really? I thought the manga was flawless

Since when people said the manga was flawless,it doesn't get too much love here especially after the Ft trunks stuff including me.

[Zephyr]

the transformations ( or powerups ) in the manga come with solid reasoning behind it while the anime is up in the air with everything..

Sorta. Super Saiyan Rage was definitely out of nowhere, not set up in any way, and didn't really make any sense. The aura was shaped similarly to Blue's, implying that it's somehow related, but Trunks didn't perform any kind of ritual, and he didn't train with any Hakaishin or Angel. I think stacking Kaioken on top of Blue came with some solid reasoning, though.

the manga never gave a solid reason for Vegeta having Super Saiyan God. He just got it.

Indeed, the manga seems to imply that Vegeta attained Super Saiyan God without the ritual, just by training in the Room of Spirit and Time. That's sort of puzzling, at first. However, one only need to remember that Vegeta attained Super Saiyan Blue without first having the God form, both in the film and in the anime. Vegeta, the filthy cheating step-skipper that he is, skipping a step is consistent with his penchant for skipping steps.

Moreover, his skipping over God to get Blue is a more problematic step-skip than his subsequent skipping over the ritual to get God. In the former case, we see him jumping from step 1 (base form with no God ki), straight over step 2 (the Super Saiyan God ritual) and step 3 (Super Saiyan God), to step 4 (Super Saiyan Blue). In the latter case, we merely see him stepping back from step 4 to step 3.

In short, the fact that he can access Blue is the only justification we need for him being able to access God. The fact that he could access Blue in the first place is a much more puzzling matter, and one that permeates Super across all media.

Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan came out of nowhere and the reasoning behind it makes little sense.

This, however, is so straightforward that I don't understand how anyone could actually be confused. The Champa arc shows that Blue has a huge drawback, and in the following arc they find a solution to the problem. Too much ki is leaking out, so they learn how to contain it. Set up, pay off.

How does this not make sense? At what step does your ability to understand and comprehend basic storytelling fall off the map?

[Grimlock]

transformations ( or powerups ) in the manga come with solid reasoning behind it while the anime is up in the air with everything.

I wouldn't say "solid", as I still do not know where the power-up that Trunks has in the Super Saiyan 2 form comes from and what it is exactly. We have never seen it before. All we know is that throught it Trunks is on par with Super Saiyan 3 Goku somehow.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Do you guys think U7 warriors injected senzu beans into their veins?

I mean that's probably the explanation we saw Goku being worn out and out of nothing having his full power back, the same thing with Vegeta who got rekt by Jiren in the last episode and in the next one he will be all good and stronger than ever.

Since Goku got Ultra Instinct, it looks like it's basically him reaching Superman levels with a healing factor ("building stamina through fighting" - ? - and gaining full power again just mere minutes after exhausting all of his power - ???) and limitless/passively-growing power (Ultra Instinct). "Breaking [of] the shell" as Whis calls it. Vegeta appears to be on that path too. Not sure I totally like it yet, but eh.

[Rebel Instinct]

the manga never gave a solid reason for Vegeta having Super Saiyan God. He just got it.

Indeed, the manga seems to imply that Vegeta attained Super Saiyan God without the ritual, just by training in the Room of Spirit and Time. That's sort of puzzling, at first. However, one only need to remember that Vegeta attained Super Saiyan Blue without first having the God form, both in the film and in the anime. Vegeta, the filthy cheating step-skipper that he is, skipping a step is consistent with his penchant for skipping steps.

Moreover, his skipping over God to get Blue is a more problematic step-skip than his subsequent skipping over the ritual to get God. In the former case, we see him jumping from step 1 (base form with no God ki), straight over step 2 (the Super Saiyan God ritual) and step 3 (Super Saiyan God), to step 4 (Super Saiyan Blue). In the latter case, we merely see him stepping back from step 4 to step 3.

In short, the fact that he can access Blue is the only justification we need for him being able to access God. The fact that he could access Blue in the first place is a much more puzzling matter, and one that permeates Super across all media.

Pretty solid reasoning, I must say. Considering how Vegeta blew right past God and jumped straight to Blue, assuming that Vegeta couldn't simply step back to learn God after learning Blue is like assuming that he couldn't go back and learn SSJ3 now. At this point, he could easily go back and figure out SSJ3 if he wanted to. The only reason he hasn't is because there is absolutely no need for the form when God forms are available. Going back to master SSJ3 would just be a waste of time that could be better spent mastering Blue. The same reasoning applied to God until Vegeta realized it could be used to his advantage against Goku Black. Without the need to overcome Blue's weakness in a short period of time, Vegeta most likely would never have considered going back to develop God and it would've been left behind like SSJ3.

Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan came out of nowhere and the reasoning behind it makes little sense.

This, however, is so straightforward that I don't understand how anyone could actually be confused. The Champa arc shows that Blue has a huge drawback, and in the following arc they find a solution to the problem. Too much ki is leaking out, so they learn how to contain it. Set up, pay off.

How does this not make sense? At what step does your ability to understand and comprehend basic storytelling fall off the map?

If the past is any indication, it falls off at the step where the manga becomes the subject of discussion. I have yet to see the same amount of effort put forth to understand the writing and mechanics of the manga that is afforded to the anime. I've seen plenty of deductive reasoning, logical inference and good ol' fashion headcanon used to explain the writing decisions of the anime, but it seems like the moment the manga becomes the subject, suddenly they no longer attempt to put two and two together or use context clues to extrapolate what is happening on the page. All of a sudden, every development needs hard explanations directly spelled out by in-universe characters. If no one provides overt exposition, then regardless of narrative context or visual implication, it's bad writing and/or a plothole. I seem to recall a similar argument made some time ago regarding SSJ2 Vegeta's performance against Goku Black and whether or not Vegeta retained the power of his Furious Mutation.

In the case of Completed Super Saiyan Blue, the dialogue from both Vegeta and Goku heavily implies that the technique was an idea that Goku had in his back pocket for a while, but never had the chance to test out until that very situation - much like how Kaio-ken was reintroduced in the anime during the battle with Hit. Since the moment SSB's weakness became apparent, there's little doubt that Goku had been working on the technique to overcome it. Like you said, set up and pay off. As abrupt a development as it was, saying it makes little sense is disingenuous at best.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Jiren will go undefeated this arc, but the next villain will thrash him effortlessly and then Goku will beat that guy.

[Legion]

I doubt that we'll see Jiren again after this arc. Maybe in some filler like Hit.

[Jigurashi]

I doubt that we'll see Jiren again after this arc. Maybe in some filler like Hit.

I don't see why we'd never see him again.

[ankokudaishogun]

Considering how Vegeta blew right past God and jumped straight to Blue,

who said that?

We've seen him only going straight to Blue, but there is no reason whatsoever to think he didn't first reach God THEN stacked Super Saiyan on it getting Blue when he was training between BoG and RoF.
As you said, he simply had no reason to use it, like he never went SS2 in anime OR manga post-BoG

[Kenneth La Torre]

I doubt that we'll see Jiren again after this arc. Maybe in some filler like Hit.

Thats kinda dumb if you ask me. They introduced the first ever mortal that surpasses the gods of destruction and you think he isnt going to be relavent the next arc?

[BlueBasilisk]

WSJ for 124: https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/951544140625358848
Basically the same thing all the others have said. "Dypso's fast. Gohan and Frieza have trouble."

[CriticalThinker]

WSJ for 124: https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/951544140625358848
Basically the same thing all the others have said. "Dypso's fast. Gohan and Frieza have trouble."

If 123 has Gohan and Toppo still fighting then this either means that their fight gets interrupted or that 17 is going to fight Toppo by himself to let Gohan help Freeza. I hope that 17 gets a one on one with Toppo because it's much better than him getting knocked out in 123 because of Gohan hesitating.

[YamiGoku]

Why is everyone talking like SSB is the next form of SSG?

Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but, they are two different transformations, one needs a ritual to be unlocked and is a SSj transformation different from regular SSj1 and the rest, and the other is SSj infused with God ki, no?


also, i dont think you need to go SSG first to unlock SSB.

[sintzu]

I doubt that we'll see Jiren again after this arc. Maybe in some filler like Hit.

Thats kinda dumb if you ask me. They introduced the first ever mortal that surpasses the gods of destruction and you think he isnt going to be relavent the next arc?

Probably not the next arc as he just got one to himself but we most likely will later down the line.

[Grimlock]

Why is everyone talking like SSB is the next form of SSG?

Because that is precisely what Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is. The next step of Super Saiyan God.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but, they are two different transformations, one needs a ritual to be unlocked and is a SSj transformation different from regular SSj1 and the rest, and the other is SSj infused with God ki, no?

You need the god Ki absorbed from Super Saiyan God in order to achieve the next transformation. Look at the name "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan", everything you need to know is written in the very name. The blue-haired transformation is a Super Saiyan God that is transformed into Super Saiyan (hence the hair in Super Saiyan God is the same from the regular base form, and the hair in Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is the same from the Super Saiyan form).

Well, there is Toei's continuity where it was said Vegeta attained Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan by himself, but in Toriyama's continuity (Movie 14), it is implied they will perform the ritual on Vegeta as well.

Here are the official statements regarding this issue:

Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2:

[spoiler] [/spoiler]

Dragon Ball Super - Chapter 22:

[spoiler][/spoiler]