"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat May 19, 2018 3:49 pm

What the actual fuck is going on here?

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I want to say I'm not getting the perspective Toyotaro is going for, but it seems likely to me he just fucked up.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat May 19, 2018 3:58 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:
LightBing wrote:Piccolo is not better than Kuririn or Muten Roshi, he's just another character a tool for the author. Being weaker or stronger than certain characters doesn't make him earn better performances.
This; especially not in the franchise's equivalent of The Hunger Games where our protagonists are literally thrown into a battle pit with dozens of other fighters, having no idea what kinds of abilities those other fighters might have. The tournament's structure (or lack thereof, to be more precise) allows for unsuspecting ability match-ups and sudden off-guard eliminations as much as it allows for power scaling. It's an unpredictable beast, and that's the whole premise of the Universe Survival arc.

This goes back to my point last month. Just as Hit's weaker teammates outlasted him, Roshi outlasted Piccolo because Piccolo was in the wrong place at the wrong time -- that's the unfortunate reality of fighting in a battle royale. It's becoming increasingly obvious that people didn't really like the idea behind this arc as much as they thought, so when they see it executed well they go into a frenzy.
It would be unpedictable if the strongest from Universe 7 got knocked out.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by R. Daneel Olivaw » Sat May 19, 2018 4:10 pm

What happened with Universe 4 is kinda like what I thought should have happened, something I thought up about what would make it more meaningful and exciting. I thought Gamisaras and Damon should have eliminated 18 and Piccolo, as well as some Universe 2 people, but I would have gone even further. Universes 6 and 7 would be teaming up to eliminate Universe 2, when Universe 4 makes their move. In a matter of seconds, the last fighters in Universes 2 and 6 are eliminated, as well as 18 and Piccolo.

Also, I don't think Piccolo deserved to win against the Namekians. Piccolo's trained a lot, sure, but a good deal of his power comes from absorbing two guys. Fusing isn't very selfless when you're the one who gets to keep your mind. The U6 Namekians, however, all gave up their individuality. Their entire species fused into two guys. Also, it's ridiculous how many times Universe 7 characters can win a big fight and exhaust all of their stamina, only to do it again 4 minutes later.
Last edited by R. Daneel Olivaw on Sat May 19, 2018 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Sat May 19, 2018 4:10 pm

Doctor. wrote:What the actual fuck is going on here?

Image

I want to say I'm not getting the perspective Toyotaro is going for, but it seems likely to me he just fucked up.
Yeah, he messed up pretty badly here. Ignoring the fact that 17 looks a off, especially his torso area (that looks like the back of a shirt, not the front), he should be positioned behind Goku. But it just seems like he's on the same level, but drawn like he is further behind. Toyotaro has a bit of a problem with prospective, and in this arc it shows a lot more. Also, did anyone notice how they almost always look like they're fighting or standing at the very edge of the arena?
Last edited by Vegeta_Sama on Sat May 19, 2018 4:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Exline » Sat May 19, 2018 4:17 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:
Marlowe89 wrote:
LightBing wrote:Piccolo is not better than Kuririn or Muten Roshi, he's just another character a tool for the author. Being weaker or stronger than certain characters doesn't make him earn better performances.
This; especially not in the franchise's equivalent of The Hunger Games where our protagonists are literally thrown into a battle pit with dozens of other fighters, having no idea what kinds of abilities those other fighters might have. The tournament's structure (or lack thereof, to be more precise) allows for unsuspecting ability match-ups and sudden off-guard eliminations as much as it allows for power scaling. It's an unpredictable beast, and that's the whole premise of the Universe Survival arc.

This goes back to my point last month. Just as Hit's weaker teammates outlasted him, Roshi outlasted Piccolo because Piccolo was in the wrong place at the wrong time -- that's the unfortunate reality of fighting in a battle royale. It's becoming increasingly obvious that people didn't really like the idea behind this arc as much as they thought, so when they see it executed well they go into a frenzy.
It would be unpedictable if the strongest from Universe 7 got knocked out.
No, what you just said is what we would call bad writing.

For unpredictability, we don't have to make Goku or Vegeta or Frieza the first to be knocked out just cause they are stronger. Doing so would feel so forced. It wouldn't feel natural at all. We know their the strongest so they definitely have to last longer. They are the main stars of the show after all. Them losing to someone like Damon would make their inclusion feel so lackluster due to how relevant they've been throughout all of Super. This isn't the case for Piccolo, since he's already been bested in terms of power and has lost relevancy within the series. The way the manga has been demonstrating unpredictability is much more coherent and more natural.
Vegeta_Sama wrote:
Doctor. wrote:What the actual fuck is going on here?

Image

I want to say I'm not getting the perspective Toyotaro is going for, but it seems likely to me he just fucked up.
Yeah, he messed up pretty badly here. Ignoring the fact that 17 looks a off, especially his torso area (thatblooks like the back of a shirt, not the fronte), he should be positioned behind Goku. But it just seems like he's on the same level, but drawn like he is further behind. Toyotaro has a bit of a problem with prospective, and in this arc it shows a lot more.
Ugh I know right. He is so bad with perspective. He keeps making the arena seem smaller than it really is at times. He needs to destroy the stage like in the anime.
Last edited by Exline on Sat May 19, 2018 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Sat May 19, 2018 4:32 pm

MyNiggaGoku wrote:
Draconic wrote:
sintzu wrote:
I don't think we're going to see anything major before his fight with Toppo.
I'm not exactly looking for anything huge at the moment either, but the rest of the chapter is fine looking, even great at times, so it makes me sad that it has to open so poorly and with Vegete nonetheless, who already got his fair share of shit looking fights in the Black arc
It's all a matter of preference sure, but I really liked the 2 fights Vegeta had with Black.
Same here, I think his fights in that arc were his best in the franchise as not only did they look good but he actually acomplished something in them.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat May 19, 2018 4:33 pm

Exline wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
Marlowe89 wrote:
This; especially not in the franchise's equivalent of The Hunger Games where our protagonists are literally thrown into a battle pit with dozens of other fighters, having no idea what kinds of abilities those other fighters might have. The tournament's structure (or lack thereof, to be more precise) allows for unsuspecting ability match-ups and sudden off-guard eliminations as much as it allows for power scaling. It's an unpredictable beast, and that's the whole premise of the Universe Survival arc.

This goes back to my point last month. Just as Hit's weaker teammates outlasted him, Roshi outlasted Piccolo because Piccolo was in the wrong place at the wrong time -- that's the unfortunate reality of fighting in a battle royale. It's becoming increasingly obvious that people didn't really like the idea behind this arc as much as they thought, so when they see it executed well they go into a frenzy.
It would be unpedictable if the strongest from Universe 7 got knocked out.
No, what you just said is what we would call bad writing.

For unpredictability, we don't have to make Goku or Vegeta or Frieza the first to be knocked out just cause they are stronger. Doing so would feel so forced. It wouldn't feel natural at all. We know their the strongest so they definitely have to last longer. They are the main stars of the show after all. Them losing to someone like Damon would make their inclusion feel so lackluster due to how relevant they've been throughout all of Super. This isn't the case for Piccolo, since he's already been bested in terms of power and has lost relevancy within the series. The way the manga has been demonstrating unpredictability is much more coherent and more natural.
No it would be good writing. Strongest means nothing when all you have to do to win is have the most members on the field at the end.

So many things happen at once that someone like Vegeta could easily fall out the ring. This is the one tournament and arc overall where weaker fighters could easily do better than the stronger but that didn't happen becauae we need big powerful levels at the end to just have fights about power once again which is quite boring.

If stamina played an proper role then we would get a proper royale but it played literally no role.

There is nothing natural in a battle royale so having the strongest from Universe 7 at the end is the thing that is forced and makes everything else feel like a complete waste of time overall as their fights had no real consequences on the these final strong fighters.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Sat May 19, 2018 5:21 pm

Doctor. wrote:I want to say I'm not getting the perspective Toyotaro is going for, but it seems likely to me he just fucked up.
It's a layering issue.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Sat May 19, 2018 6:56 pm

This arc honestly isn't going any better in the manga... :problem: But then again, the idea for this arc in adding 70+ new characters is really difficult to properly implement through and through anyway so...
Doctor. wrote:What the actual fuck is going on here?

Image

I want to say I'm not getting the perspective Toyotaro is going for, but it seems likely to me he just fucked up.
Oi, that looks weird. I think he just fucked up.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sat May 19, 2018 6:58 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:
LightBing wrote:This is devolving into favoritism. Piccolo is not better than Kuririn or Muten Roshi, he's just another character a tool for the author. Being weaker or stronger than certain characters doesn't make him earn better performances.

If people think characters were written of-character or such that's a discussion to be had, but when you say you're not happy because other characters did "better" the bias makes it impossible to converse.
Why does Roshi get better treatment? Why is he is special? The same with 17. It just seems like he picks at random for no reason.

Everyone has some sort of favouritism so that point means nothing and expectations for everyone for different characters is different. In the manga my expectations haven't been met for Piccolo, 18, Tien and Krillin.

Ignoring other characters completely, to me I can't be satisfied with what he done when he is treated as useless.

It is about the quality of what he done and not something like the number of eliminations.
There is a very important reason that Frieza, 17, and Roshi are important in this arc, and that's the nature of the 10 person rule. If it was 5 people like I see discussed, then the team would be Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Krillin, and 18. Maybe Tien or Gohan would fight, but being pressed for numbers allows obscure characters to be utilized. That's why if Roshi, 17, or Frieza get the same treatment as these other characters, then the 10 person limit will seem trivial.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat May 19, 2018 7:36 pm

Bergamo wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
LightBing wrote:This is devolving into favoritism. Piccolo is not better than Kuririn or Muten Roshi, he's just another character a tool for the author. Being weaker or stronger than certain characters doesn't make him earn better performances.

If people think characters were written of-character or such that's a discussion to be had, but when you say you're not happy because other characters did "better" the bias makes it impossible to converse.
Why does Roshi get better treatment? Why is he is special? The same with 17. It just seems like he picks at random for no reason.

Everyone has some sort of favouritism so that point means nothing and expectations for everyone for different characters is different. In the manga my expectations haven't been met for Piccolo, 18, Tien and Krillin.

Ignoring other characters completely, to me I can't be satisfied with what he done when he is treated as useless.

It is about the quality of what he done and not something like the number of eliminations.
There is a very important reason that Frieza, 17, and Roshi are important in this arc, and that's the nature of the 10 person rule. If it was 5 people like I see discussed, then the team would be Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Krillin, and 18. Maybe Tien or Gohan would fight, but being pressed for numbers allows obscure characters to be utilized. That's why if Roshi, 17, or Frieza get the same treatment as these other characters, then the 10 person limit will seem trivial.
This just sounds ridiculous as your saying the only the reason Piccolo, Krillin and 18 are in tournament is to so otherd can look. You saying we had all these new wasted characters just so we can get 17 and Frieza fighting with Goku. You don't treat existing or new characters like this

Frieza and 17 only got what they did because they are returning characters fighting alongside Goku for the time. They would have benn treated liie this in amy tyoe of story arc.

Roshi is just a weird one.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by omaro34 » Sat May 19, 2018 8:38 pm

They did 18 dirty this chapter.

I was hoping piccolo would fight against those namekians again. Damn shame.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sat May 19, 2018 9:13 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
Why does Roshi get better treatment? Why is he is special? The same with 17. It just seems like he picks at random for no reason.

Everyone has some sort of favouritism so that point means nothing and expectations for everyone for different characters is different. In the manga my expectations haven't been met for Piccolo, 18, Tien and Krillin.

Ignoring other characters completely, to me I can't be satisfied with what he done when he is treated as useless.

It is about the quality of what he done and not something like the number of eliminations.
There is a very important reason that Frieza, 17, and Roshi are important in this arc, and that's the nature of the 10 person rule. If it was 5 people like I see discussed, then the team would be Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Krillin, and 18. Maybe Tien or Gohan would fight, but being pressed for numbers allows obscure characters to be utilized. That's why if Roshi, 17, or Frieza get the same treatment as these other characters, then the 10 person limit will seem trivial.
This just sounds ridiculous as your saying the only the reason Piccolo, Krillin and 18 are in tournament is to so otherd can look. You saying we had all these new wasted characters just so we can get 17 and Frieza fighting with Goku. You don't treat existing or new characters like this

Frieza and 17 only got what they did because they are returning characters fighting alongside Goku for the time. They would have benn treated liie this in amy tyoe of story arc.

Roshi is just a weird one.
This has certainly happened before in Dragon Ball. Tien was killed easily in the Saiyan Saga so that wonder boy Gohan could get more focus. You'd think that the 4 year old, no matter how strong, would be less useful than the strongest human. Krillin was also humiliated against Dracula Man in a fashion similar to what happened in the ToP.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Sat May 19, 2018 9:36 pm

sintzu wrote:fights that put him on the map as one of DB's best characters.
Fights don't determine a character's worth. If they did, Broly would be one of the best Dragonball characters.

He clearly fucking isn't.

Piccolo is a great character for things he did outside of fighting, as far as I'm concerned. Sacrificing himself for Gohan, conning Cell into revealing all that information about himself and his entire dynamic with Goten and Trunks. That's great character work.

Mashing action figures together is irrelevant.
omaro34 wrote:I was hoping piccolo would fight against those namekians again. Damn shame.
I don't get why people wanna see things they already saw in the anime.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Exline » Sat May 19, 2018 11:08 pm

TKA wrote:
omaro34 wrote:I was hoping piccolo would fight against those namekians again. Damn shame.
I don't get why people wanna see things they already saw in the anime.
Exactly. I was kind of bored by seeing Piccolo lose the same exact way he did in the anime in the manga version.
However I can agree Toyotaro executed the elimination better because it felt more realistic and less awkward compared to the anime. I guess people who want to see the same fights in the manga kinda hope Toyotaro will exceed those fights in terms of action and spectacle.

I don't want to be a pessimist about the manga when it comes to fights, but Toyotaro's fight scenes after Goku vs. Toppo in the Zen Exhibition Arc have become quite boring imo. Hit vs. Jiren and Goku vs. Toppo and Dyspo were engaging fights. But that's only a few of the many fights that have transpired so far during the Tournament.

I'm assuming that once he gets rid of all the unneccesary fighters, he will step his game up. This chapter is definitely an improvement in terms of choreography. 17 beating up Botamo as if he were a punch ball and Piccolo eliminating that U10 fighter with relative ease were signs of Toyotaro trying to improve his skills.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by omaro34 » Sun May 20, 2018 12:31 am

TKA wrote:
sintzu wrote:fights that put him on the map as one of DB's best characters.
Fights don't determine a character's worth. If they did, Broly would be one of the best Dragonball characters.

He clearly fucking isn't.

Piccolo is a great character for things he did outside of fighting, as far as I'm concerned. Sacrificing himself for Gohan, conning Cell into revealing all that information about himself and his entire dynamic with Goten and Trunks. That's great character work.

Mashing action figures together is irrelevant.
omaro34 wrote:I was hoping piccolo would fight against those namekians again. Damn shame.
I don't get why people wanna see things they already saw in the anime.
What's there not to understand? There's nothing wrong with seeing a different version of a fight between the same opponents.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sun May 20, 2018 2:25 am

TKA wrote:
sintzu wrote:fights that put him on the map as one of DB's best characters.
Fights don't determine a character's worth. If they did, Broly would be one of the best Dragonball characters.

He clearly fucking isn't.

Piccolo is a great character for things he did outside of fighting, as far as I'm concerned. Sacrificing himself for Gohan, conning Cell into revealing all that information about himself and his entire dynamic with Goten and Trunks. That's great character work.

Mashing action figures together is irrelevant.
This is Dragon Ball and the majoirty of characters are liked due to the fighting they have. Fighting is the most important thing to most people when it comes to Dragon Ball

The majority of Piccolo fans will not satisfied until he is fighting like he used to you. People who prefer his 'character work' and can be satisfied by it are a minority.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Sun May 20, 2018 2:31 am

I'm glad Piccolo isn't fighting the Namekians. It was ridiculous having Piccolo and Ultimate Gohan fighting alongside each other as thouh they were at all in a similar league, it really took away from how powerful the Namekians were supposed to be. It really was just including Piccolo because he was a Namekian and always has to hang around Gohan.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sun May 20, 2018 2:39 am

Saiga wrote:I'm glad Piccolo isn't fighting the Namekians. It was ridiculous having Piccolo and Ultimate Gohan fighting alongside each other as thouh they were at all in a similar league, it really took away from how powerful the Namekians were supposed to be. It really was just including Piccolo because he was a Namekian and always has to hang around Gohan.
I wouldn't be surprised if Toyotaro makes Saonel and Pirina weaker.

Piccolo wasn't fighting alongside them and he only used his Special Beam Cannon which we know is way more powerful than he naturally is.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Sun May 20, 2018 4:25 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:
Saiga wrote:I'm glad Piccolo isn't fighting the Namekians. It was ridiculous having Piccolo and Ultimate Gohan fighting alongside each other as thouh they were at all in a similar league, it really took away from how powerful the Namekians were supposed to be. It really was just including Piccolo because he was a Namekian and always has to hang around Gohan.
I wouldn't be surprised if Toyotaro makes Saonel and Pirina weaker.

Piccolo wasn't fighting alongside them and he only used his Special Beam Cannon which we know is way more powerful than he naturally is.
He still fought the 'stabilized' Namekians before Gohan turned Ultimate. Yeah, he was losing, but it was nowhere near as one-sided as it should have been given the supposed power difference.

Even the Makankosappo should not be so powerful as to bridge that kind of massive gap. Ultimate Gohan has powered up a lot from the Boo arc (at least, that's what the anime tried to portray).
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