"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by lord turbo » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:08 pm

dragon boss z wrote: I'm pretty sure only the top people like Sorbet would know things like that. Tarble was on a planet exiled and should know nothing of Frieza's forms. And Goku said a Frieza level opponent would be good for the kids, so he was probably thinking about their ssj forms, but since Abo and Cado were only suppressed Frieza level they only needed their base forms. Further indication they were only base Frieza level is that their power was compared to the Ginyu force beforehand, and he said now they are probably as strong as Frieza, most likely meaning first form Frieza. Also if they were Ginyu force level during the namek saga, that means if they are 100% Frieza tier now, it means they grew at a faster rate than Goku and Vegeta since base Goku was stated to be weaker than Frieza.
I'm curious, when you claim stuff that is bolded what is it exactly based off of besides personal preference? Again, the correct translation is that Goku said the kids will be fine, not that Abo and Cado would be good opponents. They got easily spanked by base kids under Toriyama and Ooishi's collaborated manga version. Also, Tarble asked the Namekians about Freeza and the Earthlings, the same Namekians that sensed Freeza's full power by the way. The rest of your post is just wishful thinking, being comparable to Ginyu Force means they can't grow any stronger than Freeza despite Tagoma (Dodoria tier goon) growing not only stronger than Namek era Freeza, but strong enough to effortlessly embarrass post Cell Games era Piccolo.
Because he wanted to fight them himself.
He wanted to fight strong opponents, not weaklings on par with Namek era Freeza.
dragon boss z wrote:Dude, you are being hypocritical. It was stated that base Goku was weaker than Frieza, so unless you think base Goten and Trunks are stronger than base Goku you are wrong.
The only hypocrite here is you, picking and choosing which lines count and which doesn't and making excuses for them doesn't paint you as unbiased... There are no "multiple sources" stating Freeza > base Goku, just once and one only and that's in reference to Beerus examining a suppressed Goku. You want to know what author intent clearly was? Abo and Cado = Namek era Freeza, the same level that was trivialized by base Goten and Trunks under Toriyama and Ooishi's pen. What is stated is Abo and Cado are on par with Freeza (Namek era), Goku does not state Tarble is wrong after hearing this, just disappointed that they are only as strong as Freeza and that the kids will be fine against them. Those are the facts, no amount of mental gymnastics from you will change that.
dragon boss z wrote:Giving these three facts it is most likely Abo and Cado are not the strength of full power Frieza, not to mention how dumb it would be if some random fat Frieza soldiers just randomly became as strong as 100% Frieza after a few years. It is not easy to become that strong. Frieza never even had to go to his 3rd form before to fight an opponent and Beerus literally fell down when he heard Frieza was defeated. If two random fat Frieza soldiers could beat Frieza after a few years why would Beerus be shocked Frieza lost?
Have we forgotten some random goon (Tagoma) became far stronger than Namek era Freeza in 4 months to the point he could casually embarrass post Cell Game era Piccolo? Strength gains in Dragon Ball are based entirely off of incoherent plot convenience to suit the needs of the story at any giving moment.
dragon boss z wrote:You are being a hypocrite. You are saying Beerus was wrong, a god who knows how to sense power, his statement was never contradicted, and to double down in the anime version even after going ssj he said Frieza was still the best he could do. This is conformation that Beerus' statement as true. But because it fits your narrative to have Goku be suppressed and Abo and Cado be full power Frieza level that is what you choose to believe even though literally all of the evidence contradicts that stand point.
No, being a hypocrite would be narrowly focusing on one thing and ignoring everything else that contradicts it. Beerus examined a suppressed Goku so his statement is not contradicted, just not relevant in regards to full power Goku, the fact he claims beating Namek era Freeza is the best his SSJ could do just further elaborates on how ignorant Beerus is considering Goku is at bare minimum over 10x stronger than Namek era Freeza going by statements from the Cell and Buu saga, going further the RoF anime had Tagoma state base Gohan was the strongest out of everyone there (This includes Piccolo), how does Tagoma know this, according to your logic who cares, the narrative states this through author intent so it must be true, keep in mind this version of base Gohan is weaker than early Buu Saga self. Speaking of the Buu Saga Goten and Trunks challenge 18 in their base form despite fully knowing 18 used to be strong enough to thrash their dads SSJ forms before their time of chamber training. They only complain about being at a disadvantage due to the suit they are in and nothing in regards to 18s own strength that greatly surpass Namek era Freeza. That fits perfectly in line with the base kids being strong enough to thrash opponents on par with Namek era Freeza.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MoscoSama » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:18 pm

How do you guys think Kefla will be eliminated?

I've got gohan grabbing her and freeza blasting both off the stage.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:44 pm

MoscoSama wrote:How do you guys think Kefla will be eliminated?
After received the beating of her life by Gohan (reminding of Spopovich vs. Videl), Goku will say that's enough (like Yamu) and then Gohan will just grab her by the leg already unconscious and throw out of the ring.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by wolflonnie » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:52 pm

MoscoSama wrote:How do you guys think Kefla will be eliminated?

I've got gohan grabbing her and freeza blasting both off the stage.
He'll get trashed around after Kefla reveals her SSB, then he'll randomly rage boost, eliminate her, and say out loud, breaking the fourth wall: "Is this enough for you guys?".

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:19 pm

MoscoSama wrote:How do you guys think Kefla will be eliminated?
Kefla will smack around Gohan and eliminate him. Then she fights Goku, which leads to him getting Ultra Instinct somehow, and then Goku will eliminate Kefla with the ability.

For bonus points, in the midst of the skirmish, Roshi and Kahseral will get eliminated. And basically how the anime played out the TOP from Episode 122 to 131 will happen in the manga, and much more condensed, in the space of about 3 chapters.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LimitbreakerKrillin » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:35 pm

MoscoSama wrote:How do you guys think Kefla will be eliminated?

I've got gohan grabbing her and freeza blasting both off the stage.
I'm thinking Gohan will use his ultimate form in conjunction with his super saiyan forms to catch up to Kefla in terms of power. [spoiler]As the
manga and anime showed us, he can switch between ssj and his unlock potential, but never seem to be able to combined them so far, would be a pretty acceptable way give him a power-up without resorting to give him SSG off screen.[/spoiler] Then just waited out until they defused
prematurely, and blast them off the arena.

This is my prediction and if it comes true, ill buy a lottery ticket.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cetra » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:35 pm

MoscoSama wrote:How do you guys think Kefla will be eliminated?

I've got gohan grabbing her and freeza blasting both off the stage.
Not in a million years. Either Gohan retreats or this will be his last ride. I say Goku gets Migatte no Goku'i and keeps it for the fight with Jiren. He loses it and then 17, Freeza and him have to defeat him. Probably not exactly the same way but not with Gohan defeating Kafla.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:41 pm

LimitbreakerKrillin wrote:
MoscoSama wrote:How do you guys think Kefla will be eliminated?

I've got gohan grabbing her and freeza blasting both off the stage.
I'm thinking Gohan will use his ultimate form in conjunction with his super saiyan forms to catch up to Kefla in terms of power. [spoiler]As the
manga and anime showed us, he can switch between ssj and his unlock potential, but never seem to be able to combined them so far, would be a pretty acceptable way give him a power-up without resorting to give him SSG off screen.[/spoiler] Then just waited out until they defused
prematurely, and blast them off the arena.

This is my prediction and if it comes true, ill buy a lottery ticket.
Not going to happen, Gohan ultiamtge form is the combination of all his ssj forms, his base form and rage boost all into one. He can't get stronger then ultimate form unless toyotaro does something creative, which he's cabable of doing. But stacking ssj on ultimate would really ruin the manga chapter since it's a blatant contradiction of the OG manga and toyo dosne't do that.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:49 pm

lol all of you guys thinking toyotaro is going to copy the anime and will be predcitable. Look at literally every manga chapter sinc e like after chapter 15, it's gone totally unexpected in EVERY CHAPTER. Just look at how surprising these last ToP have been, I doubt 39 will end up being ultra predcitabillity. I'm ready for toyotaro to once again work some creative magic like he usally does.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:58 pm

Noah wrote:After received the beating of her life by Gohan (reminding of Spopovich vs. Videl), Goku will say that's enough (like Yamu) and then Gohan will just grab her by the leg already unconscious and throw out of the ring.
Lol, sounds like the start to one of those kinds of fanfics/doujins.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SSJgogeto » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:00 pm

MoscoSama wrote:How do you guys think Kefla will be eliminated?
I don't know, but I have the feeling I won't like it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:17 pm

lord turbo wrote: I'm curious, when you claim stuff that is bolded what is it exactly based off of besides personal preference? Again, the correct translation is that Goku said the kids will be fine, not that Abo and Cado would be good opponents. They got easily spanked by base kids under Toriyama and Ooishi's collaborated manga version. Also, Tarble asked the Namekians about Freeza and the Earthlings, the same Namekians that sensed Freeza's full power by the way. The rest of your post is just wishful thinking, being comparable to Ginyu Force means they can't grow any stronger than Freeza despite Tagoma (Dodoria tier goon) growing not only stronger than Namek era Freeza, but strong enough to effortlessly embarrass post Cell Games era Piccolo.
Vegeta didn't know Frieza could even transform and he was one of Frieza's top guys. And I doubt Tarble asked the Namekians "Hey what was Frieza's power level" not that they would even have a way to explain it since they don't have numbers to explain it.
And I believe the writers forgot how strong Piccolo was as he was treated as closer to rusty base Gohan than rusty ssj Gohan, and post Buu saga base Goku is supposed to be weaker than Frieza. Also the Tagoma vs Piccolo think is pretty much filler as it didn't come from Toriyama. We really don't even know how much of the abo cado thing came from Toriyama either and the whole special may have been retconned at this point anyways.
The only hypocrite here is you, picking and choosing which lines count and which doesn't and making excuses for them doesn't paint you as unbiased... There are no "multiple sources" stating Freeza > base Goku, just once and one only and that's in reference to Beerus examining a suppressed Goku. You want to know what author intent clearly was? Abo and Cado = Namek era Freeza, the same level that was trivialized by base Goten and Trunks under Toriyama and Ooishi's pen. What is stated is Abo and Cado are on par with Freeza (Namek era), Goku does not state Tarble is wrong after hearing this, just disappointed that they are only as strong as Freeza and that the kids will be fine against them. Those are the facts, no amount of mental gymnastics from you will change that.
No, like I said it was pretty clear when watching at least Tarble was most likely talking about first form Frieza. Their power could really be anywhere between first form and final form Frieza and that statement would be true.
However Beerus flat out said Goku couldn't beat Frieza. And he said it in the movie AND the anime, and in the anime they even said ssj Goku would still have problems pretty much shutting down the people who were trying to say he was suppressed. They maybe even added that line because people were saying Goku was suppressed.

So it's pretty clear from these statements base Goten and Trunks are somewhere in the namek Frieza tier, and BoG base Goku is somewhere below max Frieza.
Have we forgotten some random goon (Tagoma) became far stronger than Namek era Freeza in 4 months to the point he could casually embarrass post Cell Game era Piccolo? Strength gains in Dragon Ball are based entirely off of incoherent plot convenience to suit the needs of the story at any giving moment.
As mentioned above, I don't even think the writer of that episode realized he made Tagoma stronger than namek Frieza. And even if he did it was just some anime writer and not Toriyama. Piccolo even had trouble getting past the fodder Frieza soldiers to try and save Krillin.
No, being a hypocrite would be narrowly focusing on one thing and ignoring everything else that contradicts it. Beerus examined a suppressed Goku so his statement is not contradicted, just not relevant in regards to full power Goku, the fact he claims beating Namek era Freeza is the best his SSJ could do just further elaborates on how ignorant Beerus is considering Goku is at bare minimum over 10x stronger than Namek era Freeza going by statements from the Cell and Buu saga, going further the RoF anime had Tagoma state base Gohan was the strongest out of everyone there (This includes Piccolo), how does Tagoma know this, according to your logic who cares, the narrative states this through author intent so it must be true, keep in mind this version of base Gohan is weaker than early Buu Saga self. Speaking of the Buu Saga Goten and Trunks challenge 18 in their base form despite fully knowing 18 used to be strong enough to thrash their dads SSJ forms before their time of chamber training. They only complain about being at a disadvantage due to the suit they are in and nothing in regards to 18s own strength that greatly surpass Namek era Freeza. That fits perfectly in line with the base kids being strong enough to thrash opponents on par with Namek era Freeza.
The power statement of Beerus comparing Goku to Frieza showed up in the movie, anime, and manga, meaning it is highly likely the line itself came from Toriyama. Buu saga base Goku also had some problems with Yakon, who should be weaker than Frieza as well as Frieza was the undisputed strongest in the mortal universe.

Trunks and Goten were getting beaten badly by 18, who thought they were humans until they went ssj. It's a fare opinion to say their ssj forms are above 18, but it was pretty clear their base forms were below her as even if the costume was hindering them 18 was holding back and dominating them.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:19 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
lord turbo wrote: I'm curious, when you claim stuff that is bolded what is it exactly based off of besides personal preference? Again, the correct translation is that Goku said the kids will be fine, not that Abo and Cado would be good opponents. They got easily spanked by base kids under Toriyama and Ooishi's collaborated manga version. Also, Tarble asked the Namekians about Freeza and the Earthlings, the same Namekians that sensed Freeza's full power by the way. The rest of your post is just wishful thinking, being comparable to Ginyu Force means they can't grow any stronger than Freeza despite Tagoma (Dodoria tier goon) growing not only stronger than Namek era Freeza, but strong enough to effortlessly embarrass post Cell Games era Piccolo.
Vegeta didn't know Frieza could even transform and he was one of Frieza's top guys. And I doubt Tarble asked the Namekians "Hey what was Frieza's power level" not that they would even have a way to explain it since they don't have numbers to explain it.
And I believe the writers forgot how strong Piccolo was as he was treated as closer to rusty base Gohan than rusty ssj Gohan, and post Buu saga base Goku is supposed to be weaker than Frieza. Also the Tagoma vs Piccolo think is pretty much filler as it didn't come from Toriyama. We really don't even know how much of the abo cado thing came from Toriyama either and the whole special may have been retconned at this point anyways.
The only hypocrite here is you, picking and choosing which lines count and which doesn't and making excuses for them doesn't paint you as unbiased... There are no "multiple sources" stating Freeza > base Goku, just once and one only and that's in reference to Beerus examining a suppressed Goku. You want to know what author intent clearly was? Abo and Cado = Namek era Freeza, the same level that was trivialized by base Goten and Trunks under Toriyama and Ooishi's pen. What is stated is Abo and Cado are on par with Freeza (Namek era), Goku does not state Tarble is wrong after hearing this, just disappointed that they are only as strong as Freeza and that the kids will be fine against them. Those are the facts, no amount of mental gymnastics from you will change that.
No, like I said it was pretty clear when watching at least Tarble was most likely talking about first form Frieza. Their power could really be anywhere between first form and final form Frieza and that statement would be true.
However Beerus flat out said Goku couldn't beat Frieza. And he said it in the movie AND the anime, and in the anime they even said ssj Goku would still have problems pretty much shutting down the people who were trying to say he was suppressed. They maybe even added that line because people were saying Goku was suppressed.

So it's pretty clear from these statements base Goten and Trunks are somewhere in the namek Frieza tier, and BoG base Goku is somewhere below max Frieza.
Have we forgotten some random goon (Tagoma) became far stronger than Namek era Freeza in 4 months to the point he could casually embarrass post Cell Game era Piccolo? Strength gains in Dragon Ball are based entirely off of incoherent plot convenience to suit the needs of the story at any giving moment.
As mentioned above, I don't even think the writer of that episode realized he made Tagoma stronger than namek Frieza. And even if he did it was just some anime writer and not Toriyama. Piccolo even had trouble getting past the fodder Frieza soldiers to try and save Krillin.
No, being a hypocrite would be narrowly focusing on one thing and ignoring everything else that contradicts it. Beerus examined a suppressed Goku so his statement is not contradicted, just not relevant in regards to full power Goku, the fact he claims beating Namek era Freeza is the best his SSJ could do just further elaborates on how ignorant Beerus is considering Goku is at bare minimum over 10x stronger than Namek era Freeza going by statements from the Cell and Buu saga, going further the RoF anime had Tagoma state base Gohan was the strongest out of everyone there (This includes Piccolo), how does Tagoma know this, according to your logic who cares, the narrative states this through author intent so it must be true, keep in mind this version of base Gohan is weaker than early Buu Saga self. Speaking of the Buu Saga Goten and Trunks challenge 18 in their base form despite fully knowing 18 used to be strong enough to thrash their dads SSJ forms before their time of chamber training. They only complain about being at a disadvantage due to the suit they are in and nothing in regards to 18s own strength that greatly surpass Namek era Freeza. That fits perfectly in line with the base kids being strong enough to thrash opponents on par with Namek era Freeza.
The power statement of Beerus comparing Goku to Frieza showed up in the movie, anime, and manga, meaning it is highly likely the line itself came from Toriyama. Buu saga base Goku also had some problems with Yakon, who should be weaker than Frieza as well as Frieza was the undisputed strongest in the mortal universe.

Trunks and Goten were getting beaten badly by 18, who thought they were humans until they went ssj. It's a fare opinion to say their ssj forms are above 18, but it was pretty clear their base forms were below her as even if the costume was hindering them 18 was holding back and dominating them.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:54 pm

I see Gohan having a valiant effort which ultimately fails. Freeza watches from the sidelines and after Gohan is out gets his revenge on the Saiyan.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Torturephile » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:02 pm

MoscoSama wrote:How do you guys think Kefla will be eliminated?

I've got gohan grabbing her and freeza blasting both off the stage.
Kefla will dominate Gohan Blanco in the shortest fight in the series by demolishing him to pieces not even Chi-Chi will recognize whatever remains of his gruesome face. Kefla defuses after two seconds.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by CriticalThinker » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:23 pm

I'd like it if 17 teamed up with Gohan next chapter to take out Kefla. They very briefly fought together in the anime against Toppo so I'd like to see more of that here. Also wonder if Roshi will fight next chapter, be kinda funny if Roshi ends up lasting longer than Gohan.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Torturephile » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:59 pm

CriticalThinker wrote:I'd like it if 17 teamed up with Gohan next chapter to take out Kefla. They very briefly fought together in the anime against Toppo so I'd like to see more of that here. Also wonder if Roshi will fight next chapter, be kinda funny if Roshi ends up lasting longer than Gohan.
It would be funny if Roshi becomes the Android 17 of the manga.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:03 pm

CriticalThinker wrote:I'd like it if 17 teamed up with Gohan next chapter to take out Kefla. They very briefly fought together in the anime against Toppo so I'd like to see more of that here. Also wonder if Roshi will fight next chapter, be kinda funny if Roshi ends up lasting longer than Gohan.
17 is fodder compared to kefla though, 17 would get one shot by ssj god, much less kefla. And gohan strength remains to be seen. I was think ultimate gohan is as powerful as 17 and ssj3 goku...but I'm not sure anymore.
What's problem going to happen is Frieza and goha. Will work together. 17 and Roshi take on the pride troopers.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by CriticalThinker » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:23 pm

Torturephile wrote: It would be funny if Roshi becomes the Android 17 of the manga.
Doubt that will happen but I would love it if it did end up happening.
1345521 wrote: 17 is fodder compared to kefla though, 17 would get one shot by ssj god, much less kefla. And gohan strength remains to be seen. I was think ultimate gohan is as powerful as 17 and ssj3 goku...but I'm not sure anymore.
What's problem going to happen is Frieza and goha. Will work together. 17 and Roshi take on the pride troopers.
I mean we have no clue as to how much stronger Kefla is when compared to 17. I have no doubt that she is probably stronger but not that much so that he can't fight against her for a bit.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:24 pm

Whatever the result, I expect people to be angry that Gohan is a match for Kafla. They'll cite how Kale manhandled Frieza and Goku. They'll neglect that both Frieza and Goku weren't fighting seriously, that she did no permanent damage to either of them, that Vegeta shrugged her off and that she was even weaker than she was at the start when Caulifla (who only has SS1) finally managed to fuse with her. They'll also neglect that ultimate Gohan in the Buu Arc was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, who is also a fusion of two Super Saiyans that were stronger than Android 18 individually.
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